US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[Tahuu]

No one has "belittled" Jason's competitors.

We have said that 1. Jason has more experience in the Worlds arena 2. Jason this year has scores equivalent to Vincent's scores 3. Jason is a better choice for the World's team than Vincent. in my instance, can't speak to anyone else: 4. Jason has better performance skills, and has put out "five Toller" programs where Vincent has not. I fail to see where this is "belittling".

In another forum, someone with your user name recently implied that Jason acted like a 12 year old girl in the KnC. Do you consider that belittling? And I still don't have an answer as to whether you intended to use swear words in that acronym you posted earlier. Do you consider that belittling?

I agree that no poster should engage in "belittling" conduct.

I did puke a little seeing the hand holding before the scores at every k&c. If you stop belittle Jason's competitors, I'll cease as well.

 

[chuckm]

My reservations about Jason being assigned to Worlds are based entirely on the fact that he has an injury which has kept him from full-out practice. Because of limited practice time, his chances of being able to rotate and land a quad in his FS are IMO less than 50%, and his chances of having enough stamina to complete a clean FS are also less than 50%.

Under those circumstances, IMO Jason has no better chance of getting 3 men's spots than Vincent does.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

My opinions are that the TES minimums were a non-issue for USFS when making the assignments, and that Jason is a better bet regarding the three slots for 2018.

That said, if USFS had -- from the beginning -- named Vincent to the team and made Jason first alternate, I would have understood that decision and would not have been upset.  There was a case to be made for Vincent.

It probably also helps that JW is a good event for Vincent because he could actually win, especially since he won't have the pressure of earning Olympic spots. If he comes into next season with a JWGM and does well in the GP, he will get noticed by the judges at the big events.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

My reservations about Jason being assigned to Worlds are based entirely on the fact that he has an injury which has kept him from full-out practice. Because of limited practice time, his chances of being able to rotate and land a quad in his FS are IMO less than 50%, and his chances of having enough stamina to complete a clean FS are also less than 50%.

Under those circumstances, IMO Jason has no better chance of getting 3 men's spots than Vincent does.

I was surprised how good Jason's LP at Nationals was, given how poorly he skated in the SP. I'd be surprised if he's even training a quad right now, because he really only needs to skate clean programs with the maximum triples to get in the top 10.

 

[chuckm]

Vincent has tough competition at JW, especially from Samarin, Aliev and Jun Hwan Cha. Yes, he could win, but it is by no means a slam dunk. What doesn't help is the panel of judges for JW, which include KOR, BLR, GEO, KAZ, LAT and RUS---and no US judge. There is no CAN judge either, which won't help the three Canadian entries.

It seems really weird to me that the Men's JW judging panel is almost completely European, except for JPN and KOR, and no NA judge at all.

There are no NA judges on the Ladies panel, either---it is all European except for the RSA judge.

Canada has 1 judge (Pairs) and the US 2 (Pairs, Ice Dance)

Russia has judges on Men, Pairs and Ice Dance. Ukraine has judges in Ladies, Pairs and Ice Dance.

Japan has only 1 judge (Men).

 

[concorde]

He really only needs to skate clean programs with the maximum triples to get in the top 10.

That is a tough for someone who cannot skate at 100% due to an injury.

In a certain sense, I believe Jason is skating for HIS ticket to the Olympics next year. Kinda like Ashley did 4 years ago.

 

[Mrs. P]

FWIW, Jason did said he recently started to train the quad again, right before 4CC basically.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I did puke a little seeing the hand holding before the scores at every k&c.

This doesn't really make me want to ask them to stop it, truth be told.


I'm not sure if I want to see this thread at the time of JWC, especially if Vincent does well (I don't mean I don't want Vincent to do well, but I don't want to see what new great arguments it will inspire. Maybe someone can go back and check how Jason did with his step sequence levels when he was a Novice).

 

[Mrs. P]

This doesn't really make me want to ask them to stop it, truth be told.


I'm not sure if I want to see this thread at the time of JWC, especially if Vincent does well (I don't mean I don't want Vincent to do well, but I don't want to see what new great arguments it will inspire. Maybe someone can go back and check how Jason did with his step sequence levels when he was a Novice).

Only level 2! http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200809/uschamps/NoviceProtocols.pdf


Here's his FS step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qQm6gl2Amg&t=2m32s

Also mini-rant about K&C: I get really tired of people judging people's character/look/whatever based on watching them for six minutes in a confined space. They have NO OBLIGATION to be "proper" for you, the viewer at home.

IF someone wants to be angry cause they didn't like their performance FINE. If someone wants TO CRY about their performance fine. If someone wants to take comfort in someone they trust by -- GASP -- holding their hand, fine. If they don't want to talk to their coach at all, that's fine also. I get that the K&C is like a big tradition that's part of the viewing experience -- and yes, gushing, joking and reacting to them is also -- and one should show good manners and not do anything morally terrible. But other than that, I'm not going to go and make broad character judgements -- regarding their maturity, relationships, etc. -- about a person based on it.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Only level 2! http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200809/uschamps/NoviceProtocols.pdf

He also underrotated a 3Lo. LOL

Here's his FS step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qQm6gl2Amg&t=2m32s

Is that a spin with negative GOE I'm seeing? :eeking: Jason, please!
But already a nice performer with the guts to put a jump right at the end. And also super adorable, so I will forgive him :luv17:

 

[karne]

I did puke a little seeing the hand holding before the scores at every k&c. If you stop belittle Jason's competitors, I'll cease as well.

:sarcasm: I'd rather see Jason hold Kori's hand every knc than think about that time that a coach would not put his arm around a boy who was bawling in pain because his leg was broken and would only condescendingly ask, "Aren't you glad you did that?"

Is that a spin with negative GOE I'm seeing? :eeking: Jason, please!
But already a nice performer with the guts to put a jump right at the end. And also super adorable, so I will forgive him :luv17:

Super adorable Jason was ridiculously adorable, all gangly and cute like an oversized puppy Well, we can't ever have one without the other...

 

[StitchMonkey]

I was surprised how good Jason's LP at Nationals was, given how poorly he skated in the SP. I'd be surprised if he's even training a quad right now, because he really only needs to skate clean programs with the maximum triples to get in the top 10.

He is. We saw an attempt with a fall during practice at 4CC, it at least looked UR and not downgraded... some generous tech controllers would have given him the rotation. Give he had only been training it again for maybe a week... passed downgrade it actually encouraging to me.

 

[LRK]

Only level 2! http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200809/uschamps/NoviceProtocols.pdf


Here's his FS step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qQm6gl2Amg&t=2m32s

Also mini-rant about K&C: I get really tired of people judging people's character/look/whatever based on watching them for six minutes in a confined space. They have NO OBLIGATION to be "proper" for you, the viewer at home.

IF someone wants to be angry cause they didn't like their performance FINE. If someone wants TO CRY about their performance fine. If someone wants to take comfort in someone they trust by -- GASP -- holding their hand, fine. If they don't want to talk to their coach at all, that's fine also. I get that the K&C is like a big tradition that's part of the viewing experience -- and yes, gushing, joking and reacting to them is also -- and one should show good manners and not do anything morally terrible. But other than that, I'm not going to go and make broad character judgements -- regarding their maturity, relationships, etc. -- about a person based on it.

It's bizarre to me really...

X is too upset after a bad skate - control yourself!
Y is not upset enough after a bad skate - it's as if she does't care!
Z is too angry!
A is too smiley!
B is... &c, &c, &c...

 

[TontoK]

Only level 2! http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200809/uschamps/NoviceProtocols.pdf


Here's his FS step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qQm6gl2Amg&t=2m32s

Also mini-rant about K&C: I get really tired of people judging people's character/look/whatever based on watching them for six minutes in a confined space. They have NO OBLIGATION to be "proper" for you, the viewer at home.

IF someone wants to be angry cause they didn't like their performance FINE. If someone wants TO CRY about their performance fine. If someone wants to take comfort in someone they trust by -- GASP -- holding their hand, fine. If they don't want to talk to their coach at all, that's fine also. I get that the K&C is like a big tradition that's part of the viewing experience -- and yes, gushing, joking and reacting to them is also -- and one should show good manners and not do anything morally terrible. But other than that, I'm not going to go and make broad character judgements -- regarding their maturity, relationships, etc. -- about a person based on it.

I'm a traditionalist. I want to eliminate the melodramatic kiss-and-cry altogether. Go back to the old days, when a skater simply stood by the boards, got their marks, and went backstage.

But more than anything, I want to get the person who came up with the "Current Top 3" waiting room and send them to Guantanamo Bay. There they can be waterboarded or forced to watch videos of Urmanov.

 

[Jaana]

In another forum, someone with your user name recently implied that Jason acted like a 12 year old girl in the KnC. Do you consider that belittling?

Is that really belittling or just an impression? To me it has looked that Brown always gives an excellent show at K&C, which is not something according to his actual age (22, right?). And I don´t like the hand holding ceremony either, which was good with a 10 year old boy or something like that. And I feel uncomfortable while watching his clinging to his female coach.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Super adorable Jason was ridiculously adorable, all gangly and cute like an oversized puppy Well, we can't ever have one without the other...

He's still a puppy, but it's as if he grew into his fur
And :luv17: at this other little cutie. So much talent! And it gives me a good excuse to look again at what this tiny little baby turned into. Which in turn gives me another moment of sheer "Josh is coming back, Josh is coming back, Josh is coming back!!" euphoria :hap93: And there can never be enough of that!

Is that really belittling or just an impression? To me it has looked that Brown always gives an excellent show at K&C, which is not something according to his actual age (22, right?). And I don´t like the hand holding ceremony either, which was good with a 10 year old boy or something like that. And I feel uncomfortable while watching his clinging to his female coach.

If derogatory speech is used like in this case, then yes, it's belittling.
And that makes you feel uncomfortable? Human beings never cease to irritate amaze me. I don't get at all why a young man hugging a woman he's known since he was tiny and probably views like a 2nd mom would make anyone uncomfortable. But well, how do I say this nicely - it's your problem, not his.

 

[concorde]

To me it has looked that Brown always gives an excellent show at K&C, which is not something according to his actual age (22, right?). And I don´t like the hand holding ceremony either, which was good with a 10 year old boy or something like that. And I feel uncomfortable while watching his clinging to his female coach.

I don't get at all why a young man hugging a woman he's known since he was tiny and probably views like a 2nd mom would make anyone uncomfortable. But well, how do I say this nicely - it's your problem, not his.

Jaana is not the only one with this "problem" - I have it too! I find this very strange behavior for a 22-year old man. If my 12-year did it, I would find it age appropiate.

 

[FlattFan]

It is clingy and strange behavior. Imagine in a professional setting, if you cling to someone like that, it is very weird. But yes, if you have a problem with it, it is your problem, not his. It will become his problem if he's doing anything other than skating later in life.

 

[SnowWhite]

Is that really belittling or just an impression? To me it has looked that Brown always gives an excellent show at K&C, which is not something according to his actual age (22, right?). And I don´t like the hand holding ceremony either, which was good with a 10 year old boy or something like that. And I feel uncomfortable while watching his clinging to his female coach.

IMO it is sort of is belittling. Not to mention sexist. I'm not trying to make a big thing, but you didn't say he looked like a younger boy, and when girls are called little girls in sports, it's usually to imply they are weak or not tough enough, which again implies that girls are those things. Which isn't true. I know it's something that gets said a lot (eg. 'Don't be a girl about it') and I don't really blame people for saying it because we all hear that stuff so often, but that's why it's important to point it out. Because whether or not you meant it that way, insulting a guy by comparing them to a young girl plays into sexist ideas.

 

[Mrs. P]

It is clingy and strange behavior. Imagine in a professional setting, if you cling to someone like that, it is very weird. But yes, if you have a problem with it, it is your problem, not his. It will become his problem if he's doing anything other than skating later in life.

This plays right into my point earlier. I find it interesting that people seem inclined to make broad conclusions about someone's professional prospects, maturity and personality traits based on again, on a few minutes.

FWIW, I'm sure he doesn't bring Kori and hold her hand while he's taking classes at UCCS, so you don't have to worry about that. I do agree that his professional conduct ultimately is his responsibility, but that doesn't extend to a bunch of people on Golden Skate.

In real life, I know people who are highly affectionate toward people, both men and women. They include the utmost professionals, but I suppose if you spent six minutes looking at when they hug people, you might think they're creepy. Being affectionate isn't a "girl thing" or a "kid thing." It's one way to show compassion; I'd consider that good for the human race.

Also going to state the obvious that this has no bearing on team selection.