2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Sasha'sSpins]

I'll always have a soft spot for Mirai. Having said that her regression in presentation is one of the most baffling things in figure skating. I totally understand a skater losing jumps, but I'm used to maturity adding another dimension to someone's skating. Even if someone isn't an artist they tend to develop a style for better or worse. The most I've seen Mirai project is in footwork sequences. That's why I've been happy to her pushing the tech envelop. At least it shows me some passion where her basic movement (arms, face, etc) has not for years.

I agree about the regression in Mirai's presentation skills. It is so strange. I can't recall any elite skater that seemed to lose their ability to at least express themselves and present a program after maturity. Mirai 2010-2011 is a completely different skater from what followed after her body matured. I don't agree with those who have said that Mirai has always skated with a blank face or no expression at all. She absolutely sparkled in her 2010 Olympic season SP and FS (especially her Pirates SP!). I adore Mirai, but it's as if from 2012 to the present she basically checked out except to get the jumps done while only once in a while bothering to show some emotion out there. No idea what happened to her mindset there but I so wish she could get that Mirai back. I know I know - not likely, but I WISH it just the same. I just hope Mirai gets the help she needs ASAP to try and massively improve her presentation/choreo/transitions, etc. as well as get those full rotations back again.

I said it before and I'll say it again - if she goes down, I want her to go down fighting!

 

[Jammers]

This. I'm just tired of the up and down roller-coaster. Wagner is the only one that has developed some sort of consistency even though she has issues as well. I hope Karen can get her URs fixed because I'm thinking she is maybe the only U.S. lady that could potentially push into the top 6 at the Olympics. I know the sport is hard, it's just so discouraging to always see the U.S. ladies struggling and getting URs. And when they skate well, the next skate doesn't go well so you never know what to expect. I have given up getting my hopes up.

It's early, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Tennell make a push for the Olympic team.

Let's face it Gracie probably would have been the only US lady with a chance to win a medal if she had kept her form from 2014-16 even being inconsistent. Most every other US lady underotates their jumps something you never had to worry about with Gracie and the judges loved her. Sadly things didn't work out but i don't see any US lady that can get on the podium except maybe Ashley if lots of skaters have meltdowns but Gold wouldn't have needed meltdowns if she skated clean.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I will always root for Mirai. But damn, I wish she could get the scores to get her on the podium. She may not emote a ton, but I'd rather watch her face than Evegnia's pantomime (Just my opinion, don't kill me).

My hopes are pinned on Ashley and Mirai. As long as those two go to the olympics, I'm good (or mostly so).

I'm looking forward to next week. I bit the bullet and got the olympic chancel. I figure I'll get better coverage than icenetwork. And I like the guy who is the commentator. He's not always talking over the program- and he doesn't seem as egotistical as others can be.

You should go tell them that over on the Ryan Bradley Olympic Channel thread. Because they all have it backwards.

 

[GGFan]

I agree about the regression in Mirai's presentation skills. It is so strange. I can't recall any elite skater that seemed to lose their ability to at least express themselves and present a program after maturity. Mirai 2010-2011 is a completely different skater from what followed after her body matured. I don't agree with those who have said that Mirai has always skated with a blank face or no expression at all. She absolutely sparkled in her 2010 Olympic season SP and FS (especially her Pirates SP!). I adore Mirai, but it's as if from 2012 to the present she basically checked out except to get the jumps done while only once in a while bothering to show some emotion out there. No idea what happened to her mindset there but I so wish she could get that Mirai back. I know I know - not likely, but I WISH it just the same. I just hope Mirai gets the help she needs ASAP to try and massively improve her presentation/choreo/transitions, etc. as well as get those full rotations back again.

I said it before and I'll say it again - if she goes down, I want her to go down fighting!

The end pose for that 2010 short was everything! As if she was just saying "bring it!" There was fire in her face and entire body. Her movements had a purpose. That's exactly what I'm missing now.

 

[sross43]

Let's face it Gracie probably would have been the only US lady with a chance to win a medal if she had kept her form from 2014-16 even being inconsistent. Most every other US lady underotates their jumps something you never had to worry about with Gracie and the judges loved her. Sadly things didn't work out but i don't see any US lady that can get on the podium except maybe Ashley if lots of skaters have meltdowns but Gold wouldn't have needed meltdowns if she skated clean.

I hope Gracie comes back, even if it's not this year so she can finish her skating career on her terms. What worries me, though, is there doesn't seem to be any truly competitive rising US ladies. Tessa Hong? Starr Andrews? Maybe, but at this rate I don't see the US ladies being competitive at any time in the near future.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I upgraded my DirecTV programming for the Olympic Channel. I'm glad I did because not only are they showing the GPs with NO buffering at all, but they've shown classic gymnastics and skating competitions from earlier Olympiads - and I've dvr'ed them all, including the 1988 Summer Olympic gymnastics competition (which was often grainy on youtube vids), all the '90s Olympic gymnastics competitions through 2016 and I've just dvr'ed the Sochi and Vancouver skates! It's just a real treat to see them again on the big screen. Only downside is they've edited out some amazing skates like Mao's FS in Sochi! And Mirai's sparkling skates at Vancouver where she placed 4th and was the top American! And they didn't show event finals in gymnastics but I'll take it!

Back Ot, I refuse to believe that things are so grim for the U.S. ladies. It's not over till it's over! Ashley especially has a real lion's heart when it comes to competition and look how great Karen did to place 4th at THIS year's Worlds! I'm not giving up on Mirai or the other contenders either! At the Olympics as the old saying goes - it's ice. ANYTHING can happen!

 

[andromache]

I hope Gracie comes back, even if it's not this year so she can finish her skating career on her terms. What worries me, though, is there doesn't seem to be any truly competitive rising US ladies. Tessa Hong? Starr Andrews? Maybe, but at this rate I don't see the US ladies being competitive at any time in the near future.

USFS needs some sort of centralized push for young ladies to develop good triples. Send excellent technical coaches to young, promising skaters to teach them their triples. Something. I don't know. It's a little bizarre how we seem to be developing young men so well (finally overcoming the "US men suck at quads" reputation we developed between Tim Goebel and Max Aaron) and ladies so badly.

 

[sross43]

USFS needs some sort of centralized push for young ladies to develop good triples. Send excellent technical coaches to young, promising skaters to teach them their triples. Something. I don't know. It's a little bizarre how we seem to be developing young men so well (finally overcoming the "US men suck at quads" reputation we developed between Tim Goebel and Max Aaron) and ladies so badly.

They really need to do some sort of centralized system like with US gymnastics. I don't know who the Karolyi equivalent would be, though. I know people say that it would never work because skating is an individual sport and there would be too much drama. But like, maybe get over it?? I feel like skaters could suck it up for an actual shot at a world medal.

 

[Skatingcat]

I have IN. How is the Olympic Channel coverage better? I can't believe they charge $50 when there is U.S. cable station broadcasting the events as well.

I just got it yesterday so I'm not exactly sure, but right now, they are airing the Rostelcom Cup almost nonstop (which is good for people like me who can't get up early to watch it live). And I get to watch it on my tv screen, as opposed to my small laptop screen. And I like that, at least for now, the commentators are not Johnny or Tara (who talk too much over the programs, imo). But I'm happy because they are covering the grand prix. For now, I think it's money well spent*.

*but if you dvr, make sure you ask the dvr to continue recording for 15 minutes after the program ends. Today it cut off Chen waiting his scores for the long program. Both hee and argh! (But I got to see it again when they replayed it).

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The end pose for that 2010 short was everything! As if she was just saying "bring it!" There was fire in her face and entire body. Her movements had a purpose. That's exactly what I'm missing now.

And the bloody nose only seemed to add to her conviction LOL! She 'only' did a 3L-2T as her combo in BOTH of her programs and she STILL came in a very respectable 4th at those Olympics! And the judges totally rewarded her in the SP at Worlds a month later where she was 1st! She had a mistake in the FS but the judges were so primed to reward her again! I so wish she had kept that going! It's not entirely her fault that she lost some of her speed/jumps like the 3L-3T. Her body matured and that seemed to affect her timing for a while. She never got the 3L-3T back but she's improved her edging on the 3L and she's got a 3A even if it's hit or miss for now! She did manage to get two of them ratified internationally so that is a plus. I hope Mirai gets her mojo back!

Back to the Olympic Channel, they're replaying Rostelecom Cup several times the next few days in case anyone gets that Channel to watch the GPs!

I don't think centralizing figure skating (like in gymnastics) is going to happen but perhaps there can be some kind of certification for the coach?? Don't know if there is already, but there should be. Especially when it comes to the jumps. Yes, many skaters (like Mirai) learned under 6.0 when URs weren't hammered like they are now (hello Sarah Hughes), but for future days perhaps they could come up with something to make sure that from the earliest levels proper technique is taught. I don't blame Mirai or her generation entirely for the URs. I don't believe they are doing it on purpose. It's how they were taught the jumps and apparently they were allowed to move up through the levels without first mastering each jump as they should have.

And it looks like hand over head jumps are here to stay, so the youngsters may as well be taught that way too once they master a triple jump. I personally don't mind that style as long as there is some variation in the way the arms are held. They may as well as learn to backload too, at least a bit because that's gaining big points for skaters like the Russians.

The Russians remind me a little bit of the Romanian gymnastics training of the '90s through early 2000's. They learned the code, then they figured out what they had to do in order to win. And until open scoring, it served the Romanians well, even with mediocre bars sets. This seems to be what is happening at least with the Russian women. And it seems to be working even if a skater has a questionable edge or falls. And I don't just mean the jumps. They are working hard to keep those levels up in the PCS score even if it looks ugly to some. The judges are rewarding the skaters who show lots of transitions, footwork, speed, even choreo that isn't to everyone's taste (for the record I don't mind the Russian story-telling style of choreo - I've always loved it).

 

[loopy1217]

...Alex has no one major.

Since I’m new to this, i am curious to know why that is the case. I know he coach Gracie when she was junior so why wouldn’t anyone goes to him or why isn’t anyone under him succeed?

They really need to do some sort of centralized system like with US gymnastics. I don't know who the Karolyi equivalent would be, though. I know people say that it would never work because skating is an individual sport and there would be too much drama. But like, maybe get over it?? I feel like skaters could suck it up for an actual shot at a world medal.

^^^^THIS!!! When I start to follow figure skating this year, one of the most puzzling things is how hands off USFS compare to other US sports and other FS organizations. To a n00b like me, it is not really encouraging the sports for both fans or the athletes...:/

 

[Koralai]

I'm encouraged by the marked improvement Mariah has already made in her long program. I was skeptical when I watched the videos from US Classic, but now I'm glad she's keeping it. There is room to grow, and she looks up to the challenge of growing into it. I think that puts her in a much better position than if she had kept last year's long program: in hindsight, she seemed to run out of "growing room" on that one after skating it clean at Skate America -- the program didn't develop significantly past that point, at least in my eyes.

What made East of Eden special last year was Mariah's own infectious joy at a clean performance: she was bigger than program, which, frankly, I don't think was all that memorable otherwise. This year, the program seems to be bigger than her, for the moment. Maybe that's not a bad thing.

 

[andromache]

Since I’m new to this, i am curious to know why that is the case. I know he coach Gracie when she was junior so why wouldn’t anyone goes to him or why isn’t anyone under him succeed?

I am wondering if he is difficult to work with on a personal level? TSL interviewed him once - it sounded like him and Gracie yelled at each other a lot (learned that from his interview, I think, or an old interview of Gracie's). He coached Tomoki Hiwatashi for awhile, but then Tomoki moved to Kori Ade a season or two ago (though I know Alex was still his coach when he won junior world bronze). Shoma Uno has gone to him for jump coaching. I'd love to see USFS recruit him to teach jumps to promising novice ladies, or something. Or to see a Kori/Alex partnership of some kind. Each has what the other lacks.

 

[stella luna]

Olympic channel aired 15-15 hours of Rostelcom, much of it live, as opposed to a two-hour recap that will be on NBC Sunday. We got it in a special sports package, $5 a month for six months (half price). Very happy so far.

I just got it yesterday so I'm not exactly sure, but right now, they are airing the Rostelcom Cup almost nonstop (which is good for people like me who can't get up early to watch it live). And I get to watch it on my tv screen, as opposed to my small laptop screen. And I like that, at least for now, the commentators are not Johnny or Tara (who talk too much over the programs, imo). But I'm happy because they are covering the grand prix. For now, I think it's money well spent*.

*but if you dvr, make sure you ask the dvr to continue recording for 15 minutes after the program ends. Today it cut off Chen waiting his scores for the long program. Both hee and argh! (But I got to see it again when they replayed it).

 

[LiamForeman]

I hope Gracie comes back, even if it's not this year so she can finish her skating career on her terms. What worries me, though, is there doesn't seem to be any truly competitive rising US ladies. Tessa Hong? Starr Andrews? Maybe, but at this rate I don't see the US ladies being competitive at any time in the near future.

I hate to be the pessimist, but I think Gracie's days of being a world class skater are long gone. Why are people even thinking she's going to somehow make it to Nationals??? The last year should be obvious. She's OVER IT. The weight gain, the baggy sweatshirts. The sad thing was that her jumps and spins were so good, she didn't have to binge and purge. She had inches to spare on her jumps, so what's an extra five or ten pounds? She's done with skating. I hope she had good tutors, because she seems to have a good mind on her. Go to school Gracie, be a healthy 125/130#. Be world class in your next endeavor.

 

[sross43]

I hate to be the pessimist, but I think Gracie's days of being a world class skater are long gone. Why are people even thinking she's going to somehow make it to Nationals??? The last year should be obvious. She's OVER IT. The weight gain, the baggy sweatshirts. The sad thing was that her jumps and spins were so good, she didn't have to binge and purge. She had inches to spare on her jumps, so what's an extra five or ten pounds? She's done with skating. I hope she had good tutors, because she seems to have a good mind on her. Go to school Gracie, be a healthy 125/130#. Be world class in your next endeavor.

We should make it clear that no one ever NEEDS to binge or purge. Eating disorders are not based on logic, they are based on an unresolved psychological issue. We don't know what sort of eating disorder she has, so it's not helpful to say she was binging and purging if she hasn't said that. We don't know her, so we can't speculate on what she's going through.

 

[MarinHondas]

I am wondering if he is difficult to work with on a personal level? TSL interviewed him once - it sounded like him and Gracie yelled at each other a lot (learned that from his interview, I think, or an old interview of Gracie's). He coached Tomoki Hiwatashi for awhile, but then Tomoki moved to Kori Ade a season or two ago (though I know Alex was still his coach when he won junior world bronze). Shoma Uno has gone to him for jump coaching. I'd love to see USFS recruit him to teach jumps to promising novice ladies, or something. Or to see a Kori/Alex partnership of some kind. Each has what the other lacks.

I train at Glacier part time and have taken his off ice and power classes before. I have also seen many lessons with his students. I’ve seen a lot come out of his lesson crying, he screams and is very harsh. He is even more harsh with his really good skaters. Off the ice he is very pleasant though and a nice person, at least to me. All of his students are really nice jumpers. He does know how to teach skaters to jump, that’s for sure.

 

[MarinHondas]

I think if gracie truly wants it she will come back. She is going through some issues now mentally. Once she works through them and gets treatment then she can decide with a clear mind if skating is what she really wants.

 

[yelyoh]

I think if gracie truly wants it she will come back. She is going through some issues now mentally. Once she works through them and gets treatment then she can decide with a clear mind if skating is what she really wants.

Simply put and well put. ITA. People in show business go through this sometimes. I did. Still am.

 

[tosca]

Honestly, I couldn’t even look at this thread after Rostelecom. Being a Mirai fan is emotionally abusive...

She really fell apart in the SP but she showed grit in the FS. I agree, she has regressed in performance qualities from 2010-2011 BUT I think she has developed other qualities. If you compare this to her first GP last year, SO many less unders. Also, I’d say that her commitment to the choreo was stronger here than at Japan Open. I actually noticed all the amazing nuances of the step sequence to the music. There was also more choreo added but I agree, she could use so arms or something in the transitions.

I am so worried - I want her so badly to make the team and wanted her to make a huge statement in her first GP. I still believe. I love mirai and she has some amazing qualities as a skater. I know she can put it all together, she just needs to not succumb to the pressure.