Many felt like this meeting of D/W and V/M would somehow "settle" things with regards to who is the best team but Scott's fall has but a wrench it that. Clearly, they should be marked down for a fall but it would have been interesting to see what the scores would have been had he not fallen. Would they have been as close as many expected or would one team pull ahead? Unfortunately, the fall makes it hard to really determine who is the better couple (esp. since falls are so unusual in dance and especially with these teams. I think it was a freak accident that could have happened to either). I reckon we'll have to wait for Worlds. Hopefully, both teams skate their best and we can have a true comparison of both teams at their best.
I agree 8 points higher than P@B is an insult
IMO what's holding the Shibs back is their program - it's not their fault that Marina and Igor seem to have only one idea for a Latin dance. I agree that they should have taken the same approach as Natalie and Fabian...
My dad asked me something that I hadn't really noticed before but now it seems to be glaringly obvious. Both V/M and D/W seem to skate very far apart for top teams when they do their footwork sections. They're better when they're in dance holds... D/W more so than V/M but there's still a gap... or is this a trick of the cameras?
Yes, they were excellent, I just liked V/M better. Scott turned that fall into a plus with the crowd. Maybe not for the judges, though!
That's interesting. In my opinion, both Russan senior and junior dance teams do not project Latin feels this year regardless of their tecnhical excellence. Their Slovak heritage really show here, which is also true to Shpillband and Zouev who are ethnic Russians. Krylova/Camalenge at Detroit school is more interesting as its school have two "AUTHENTIC Latinos - Camelango and Scali. It is interesting that teams that are praised for "authentic Latin feels" this season really are authentic Latin dancers: Italians (Anna Cappellini/Luca Lanotte & Lorenza ALESSANDRINI / Simone VATURI; Sara HURTADO / Adria DIAZ (Spain), and Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT (France).
Too bad that there are no competitive South American ice dancers to make the comparison more explicit.
One to three of the following Latin American Rhythms: Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Mambo, Merengue.
The Pattern Dance Elements can be skated to any of the above mentioned Rhythms (both elements to the same Rhythm or one element to one Rhythm and the second element to a different Rhythm), in the style of this (these) Rhythm(s), with the
following range of tempo: 43 to 45 measures of four beats per minute (172-180 beats per minute). The tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance
...
Latin American Rhythms are described in the ISU Ice Dance Music Rhythms Booklet 1995, pages 13
to 20 (Note: Tango and Paso Doble, which are not included in the description, are not allowed).
I perceive their style to be disadvantage here. Their natural style is very polished and elegant, and their edge quality very smooth. But passionate Latin dance is a bit raw - antithesis to the Shib's natural style. For this reason I wished that the Shibs would have gone for the P/B route - that is, a laid back caribbean style that projects good friends enjoying a party together. That way they could have skirted passionate Latin route and still be able to project Latin feel.
I hope they take a note and do accordingly when they have to do SD Latin dance again in the future.
It is quite clear they would be behind without the fall, probably still several points. The fall wasnt even on an element, they lost 1 point and maybe a tiny bit on PCS, that is it. D&W as most of us expected now have the judges momentum and are pulling ahead (and I actually prefer V&M to D&W, just am seeing the current situation for what it is).
This was the first time I'd seen V&M's SD and I loved it. Too bad about the fall but they were really on the edge so that's what happens. I am puzzled about the marks D&W have been getting all season though, not technically, but artistically because to my untrained eye they are really stagnating and maybe even going backwards. Even if you take V&M out of the equation, their marks seem consistently too high. What am I missing here - or have the judges decided D&W can`t be beaten?
There are 2 rhumba sequences, one on the judge's side of the rink and one on the other side. The side of the rink determines whether it is the R1 or the R2 rhumba sequence. The dancers can choose to do R2Sq before R1Sq. The sequences do not have to be consecutive either. (R=rhumba, Sq=sequence)
Here's Meryl & Charlie's rhumba sequences. They do them as the 2nd and 3rd elements in their program:
2 R2Sq4+kpYYY 7.00 1.00 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 8.00
3 R1Sq4+kpYYY 7.00 1.00 2 2 2 3 2 1 2 2 2 8.00
rhumba sequences have 3 key points (kp=key point)
Each key point is marked Y or N by the tech panel. Y=yes, N=no. If the team gets all Yeses, they get level 4 for the step. Level 4 has a base value of 7.
The first key point is that little dipsy doodle quick change of edge at the start of the sequence (both the man and the lady must get it right to get the Yes:
The second key point is the series of steps involving that wide stepping chocktaw, and it's for the lady's steps.
The third key point is the series of steps involving that wide stepping chocktaw, and it's for the man's steps.
The GOE's are assigned by the judge's (who also know what the steps of the rhumba are supposed to look like. So since Meryl and Charlie got level 4's it's not surprising the judges gave them nearly straight 2's for GOE. Consequently, they have 16 points for the rhumba.
Now let's look at Tessa & Scott's rhumba:
1 R2Sq3+kpYNY 1.00 6.00 0.93 2 1 3 2 2 2 2 1 2 6.93
3 R1Sq4+kpYYY 1.00 7.00 0.79 2 0 2 1 2 1 1 2 2 7.79
Tessa did not get the tricky edge in the first rhumba sequence (the second key point), so they only got level 3.
Plus they were not as strong as they might have been in the 2nd sequence, at least in 5 of the judge's eyes. Even the judge that gave them a 3 in the first sequence dropped to 2 in the second, and felt it was not as strong.
The result is that they only 14.72 for the rhumba.
And so forth.
jcoates' point about no prescribed type of Latin in skating is correct.
...:
While I normally prefer V/M over D/W, in this SD, I was bowled over by D/W far more so than V/M. The American team skated with unbelievable speed, power and finesse. Charlie White is really a marvel, and Meryl does a good job of keeping up with him when she has to (the non-touching footwork sequence had unbelievable synchronization), or controlling the speed and power he imparts to her. The only part of the scoring I might have a quibble with is Charlie did have a bobble on the twizzles, and yet all the judges gave them 3's and 2's on the element, except one judge who gave it a 0. Other than that, the routine was a perfectly crafted roller coaster. I can only imagine it's 10 times more impressive in person. I would've had them way over V/M even if Scott didn't fall.
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I largely agree with you here although I flip flop or love them both a lot; but I am confused about the twizzles, can you tell me where that part is scored on the protocols? thanks.