Is The Idea Of American Figure Skating's 'Ice Princess' Dead?

Taan · Jan 20, 2015

Is The Idea Of American Figure Skating's 'Ice Princess' Dead?:think:
http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-comme...dea-american-figure-skating-ice-princess-dead

On the phone with her, Lipinski recalls Wagner going so far as to say, "I am a vicious competitor, and I am going to take these other girls down."

Is this any way for an Ice Princess to think and talk and act? Should Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan arrive together in a Town Car and slap duct tape over Wagner's mouth before she rattles the decades-old office of the Ice Princess anymore? Or should they show up and say, it's about time?

:think:

cruzceleste · Jan 20, 2015

Man, Carroll sounds like a cranky old man.

WeakAnkles · Jan 20, 2015

Is the Ice Princess dead? Good heavens, I hope so--I'd be the first to dance on her grave.

It's 2015. They're women.

anyanka · Jan 20, 2015

Those so-called "ice princesses" have been and always will be fierce competitors. They are athletes, first and foremost, and fight to WIN. The image isn't "dead", it was always a media construct based on outmoded misogynist preconceptions of how women are thought to "supposed" to behave. If you want to say that the "ice princess" from last century existed, I always give you the example of Sonja Henie, who had a sweetheart image but stiffed her family out of every penny she could get her grubby greedy hands on and went to her grave a wealthy but detested old woman who happened to have won three Olympic gold medals awarded by stacked judging panels.*

(*no, do not hijack and turn this into another forum on Sochi)

That is a terrible title for an article.

**ends rant**

sunnystars · Jan 20, 2015

answer to the thread title:

lol nope cuz that's what people are using to describe gracie at this moment

Scrufflet · Jan 20, 2015

This really makes me like Frank Carroll.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 20, 2015

Sometimes I feel like Ashley says things just to be be different than Gracie. I do like Ashley's attitude but it would be better if more of her performances and results reflect her supposed fighting spirit. People will accept her however she is if she would win more.

izradria · Jan 20, 2015

God forbid women display any characteristics commonly associated with men!! How dare they be fierce competitors?! :sarcasm:

Interspectator · Jan 20, 2015

A light smattering of 'Ice Princesses' is ok with me. As long as there is variety.
I thought Caroll's statement was hilarious and so true...but hasn't he been the most prolific producer of 'ice princesses' for years?

Also, in Asian countries, the Ice Princess is still in full-force. I just think it suits them.
Zijun Li
Satoko Miyahara
So Youn Park
Imai Haruka

-Not to put them in a box or anything, I get a lovely 'princess' vibe from the above skaters. I like it.

lilshorty · Jan 20, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
Sometimes I feel like Ashley says things just to be be different than Gracie. I do like Ashley's attitude but it would be better if more of her performances and results reflect her supposed fighting spirit. People will accept her however she is if she would win more.

I somewhat agree, but I don't care how brazen, outspoken, and anti-ice princess Ashley is compared to Gracie. Just shut up and skate, and win those medals. Besides, everyone knows figure skating is losing its popularity in the U.S. not because of the ice-princess image, but because of the lack of a star who can be competitive on the world stage.

Krunchii · Jan 20, 2015

It's not dead but it's just that when it's coming from Gracie, I know it's not genuine, it's not her. She's obviously a modern, more cheerleader type but when she smiles at the part of the music when the man dies, it's obvious she doesn't really understand what she's skating to and or really care. She's too focused on projecting this image that just isn't her. I like having variety, I don't mind ice princesses, but it's just really contrived from Gracie. Zijun Li did a good Sleeping Beauty, it was cute and light and refreshing, it was her.

Either way I don't think the public doesn't want ice princesses anymore, just that it's been redefined. The most popular actresses in Hollywood right now are actresses like Jennifer Lawrence, Angelina Jolie and Scarlett Johanssen who are doing more fierce roles or actions movies. And in princess movies like Enchanted and Frozen, it's not just about finding love anymore, it's more about girls finding themselves, even Elsa isn't a stereotypical princess, she's complicated and powerful and emotional, she's human. Tara Lipinski is right that many girls today don't really relate much to a princess image, you have to be more dynamic than just the smiling girl. I might be reaching with the smiling girl thing because I didn't follow figure skating in the days of skaters like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill and Nancy Kerrigan though.

aftertherain · Jan 20, 2015

sunny_stars said:
answer to the thread title:

lol nope cuz that's what people are using to describe gracie at this moment

Yeah, I still see it happening on occasion. Doesn't help that people are still calling her the epitome of elsa on ice. I still don't get that vibe from her, but it seems like other people do.

aftertherain · Jan 20, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
Sometimes I feel like Ashley says things just to be be different than Gracie. I do like Ashley's attitude but it would be better if more of her performances and results reflect her supposed fighting spirit. People will accept her however she is if she would win more.

I get that vibe too. I do like to watch her skate and appreciate get honesty, but I increasingly feel like she's putting up even more of a front than she needs to in interviews for shock value.

MoonlightSkater · Jan 20, 2015

To be honest, I have no problem with "ice princesses." I also have no problem with athletic skaters, so long as they pay attention to the artistic side and skate with intentionality. What has admittedly started to get on my nerves a bit is the tendency to label a skater as a "princess" or "athlete" and then argue that they shouldn't sample from both sides. Why not try "princess" out, and then try "avant garde" out, and then go for some heavy metal, and then go back to princess, if you like?

Also, I keep reading this thread title as "the idea of American figure skating ice princess dad." And then I wonder what brought the conversation about skating dads up... and then realize that I'm reading it wrong. Again.

Sandpiper · Jan 20, 2015

On the phone with her, Lipinski recalls Wagner going so far as to say, "I am a vicious competitor, and I am going to take these other girls down."

One of many reasons why I love Diva Wagner. :rock:

I don't always agree with everything she says, but I appreciate her honesty and determination. Though I will mention, on some of the quotes, she sounds different than what might come across on a page (for instance, the "I don't like losing to girls" thing could sound bitter when written down, but in the actual interview, I recall she seemed to be smiling/joking).

I think skaters (male and female) should just be themselves. I agree with Krunchii: If their natural style is "ice princess," sure, go for it! I don't need Li Zijun to try to be all fierce and angry--that could come across as inauthentic. The problem with Gracie is that she comes across as inauthentic. She doesn't perform the style the way Fleming/Hamill/Yamaguchi/Kwan did. It feels forced upon her.

I also agree with anyanka that the so-called "ice princess" has always been, at least in part, a media construct. Ashley really isn't saying anything that her competitors don't also say--in their heads.

Interspectator · Jan 20, 2015

The current style that Gracie is going for does not seem to suit her very well. Maybe next year she could try something else?

MoonlightSkater · Jan 20, 2015

Sandpiper said:
The problem with Gracie is that she comes across as inauthentic. She doesn't perform the style the way Fleming/Hamill/Yamaguchi/Kwan did. It feels forced upon her.

I honestly don't get this from her programs. Yes, they are "prettier" than some of her older programs, especially the short program that they scrapped, but I felt a bit like they'd forced the "athletic only" label on her before. She's one of those skaters who might be a little bit of both, but not all of either. When she switched short programs last year I felt like the new one fit her better- I felt like she could breathe to the music and that each motion was completed fully before moving into the next. The preludes felt too frenetic.

Sandpiper · Jan 20, 2015

MoonlightSkater said:
I honestly don't get this from her programs. Yes, they are "prettier" than some of her older programs, especially the short program that they scrapped, but I felt a bit like they'd forced the "athletic only" label on her before. She's one of those skaters who might be a little bit of both, but not all of either. When she switched short programs last year I felt like the new one fit her better- I felt like she could breathe to the music and that each motion was completed fully before moving into the next. The preludes felt too frenetic.

YMMV, of course. It's not working for me. I appreciate her 3Lz-3T and SS, but the rest of Gracie's programs/persona/whatnot come across as pageanty.

I agree with you that people shouldn't just get "athletic" and "artistic" labels stuck to them. And I'm all for versatility. I'm just not a fan of what Gracie and her team are doing right now. Would something different change my mind, or does Gracie just not connect with me? Who knows...

Globetrotter · Jan 20, 2015

Sandpiper said:
YMMV, of course. It's not working for me. I appreciate her 3Lz-3T and SS, but the rest of Gracie's programs/persona/whatnot come across as pageanty....

Exactly what I felt. I do not have issues with Ice Princess actually. First ones I think of will be Anna Pogo or Yulia Lip who are fiercely competitive athletes first and foremost who just happen to have that "cold princess" factor. I am however totally indifferent to the American Disney Princess - saccharine, all smiles, sweet, always blonde and fair. The reason why I never liked Gracie Gold's competitive programme this season is due to this and it sure does not help when it is obvious this persona is not her at all. Her exhibition programmes are far more real and attuned to the real her I believe.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 20, 2015

Globetrotter said:
The reason why I never liked Gracie Gold's competitive programme this season is due to this and it sure does not help when it is obvious this persona is not her at all. Her exhibition programmes are far more real and attuned to the real her I believe.

The problem with Gracie is that she just isn't very musical, so I think she is going to look awkward skating to any style of music. She doesn't know what to do with her arms or relate her movement to the music. I think the "safe" music choices are wise because she isn't going to put off the judges, whereas her original SP last year was risky and very polarizing among the fans.

Is The Idea Of American Figure Skating's 'Ice Princess' Dead?

Taan

cruzceleste

WeakAnkles

anyanka

sunnystars

#teamotherskaters

Scrufflet

drivingmissdaisy

izradria

Interspectator

lilshorty

Krunchii

aftertherain

aftertherain

MoonlightSkater

Sandpiper

Interspectator

MoonlightSkater

Sandpiper

Globetrotter

drivingmissdaisy

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