Sorry. I posted from my iPhone, so I didn't notice the flag. So it was only three years in a row in Europe instead of four.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
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Sorry. I posted from my iPhone, so I didn't notice the flag. So it was only three years in a row in Europe instead of four.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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This first part doesn't make sense. If someone has a deficient takeoff (aka, pre-rotating more than they should), then there is no "credit for extra rotation". The jump is inherently going to have less rotation than a "perfectly rotated" jump, unless the person who pre-rotates lands past the point of being backwards. Nobody does that, because trying to land further around than backwards would just make the jump more difficult for you (and landing perfectly backwards on a jump with 1/4 turn extra pre-rotation would already be within the acceptable amount of "total rotation" anyway). Pre-rotating is something people do to cheat a jump, whether they realize it or not.
Moving on, "a landing of 1/4 or less" is ENTIRELY relative to where the jump started and the jump left the ice. How do you even say if a jump was within 1/4 turn on the landing if you have no reference point for where the takeoff started? It would be like texting the following message to your dorm roommate, who is not currently at home: "hey I am going out for exactly 1 hour later today and bringing someone home with me, would you be able to leave before I get home".
How is your roommate supposed to know when to not be home if they never know what time you left? All they know is you are going out for 1 hour. If they come home 30 minutes after you left, they have no way of knowing if you left 30 minutes prior or if you left 2 minutes prior or if you left 50 minutes prior.
A jump can land perfectly backwards and have more than 1/4 turn on the ice because of not checking the landing. Strictly speaking, most jumps have more than 1/4 turn of natural turning glide on the landing anyway, if the skater is holding the landing out. This looks different than a faster turn of course, the kind of turn seen when someone is "rotating on ice", but the blade is still turning on the landing. Commonly a skater might land a jump within 1/4 turn of being backwards (let's say exactly 1/4 short) and do a noticeable half-rotation on the ice afterwards. Just because they turned so much on the ice, it doesn't mean they were underrotated more than 1/4 turn on the jump itself.
Furthermore, a "jump" in the objective sense of the term is not strictly supposed to land backwards. Doing "1.5" and "2.5" jumps are actual skills that could be tested. Someone could potentially land forwards and go right into an axel jump, as a jump combination. "Underrotated" jumps are already recognized with their own base values. Underrotated quad jumps are very difficult in their own right and worth more points than a triple, regardless of "having more than 1/4 turn on the landing". Doing a Triple Lutz with 0 pre-rotation and landing slightly short of 1/4 on the landing is more difficult than doing a Triple Lutz with 1/2 turn pre-rotation and landing slightly past 1/4 on the landing.
Not true. Karen's jumps I'm talking about at Japan Open (and in the past) were within 1/4 turn entirely by looking at the start point of the jump, not because she pre-rotated less than 1/2 turn on them and deserves extra credit for it. She pre-rotates way less on her 3Toe combos than most other ladies these days (seeing as how almost everyone else pre-rotates MORE than 1/2 turn on them) and that's the comparison I am always making about her jump combo.
In addition to that, she also has minimal pre-rotation on her Lutz and the rules should account for this (but I've not argued that her imperfect Lutz attempts are okay in terms of the current rules). Even beyond the pre-rotation thing, many people don't understand how to call the Lutz to begin with. When you do a real curved back outside edge takeoff on the Lutz, the blade is counter-rotating from the direction of the jump. When a skater glides backwards into a Lutz and takes off with ideal technique, they don't actually takeoff in the direction of that back glide, they take off "before" that point.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Well, we do know where the jump takes off, and I bolded where you acknowledge that by stating "almost everyone else pre-rotates more than 1/2 turn." On the lutz, it's pretty clear the direction Karen is moving into the jump, that she has a great take-off, and she lands roughly right at 1/4 turn short, as her blade is flat and perpendicular compared to the direction the jump moved through the air.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
What will all the other countries of the world have to say while the USA is grabbing up the sole rights to the the Grand Prix finals?
I think that if no U.S. skaters make the Grand Prix finals, it will not be a big U.S. media event even if held in the U.S.
Back in the day, U.S. Nationals was hyped in the media as being the biggest figure skating event of the year. Whoever won it was big stuff. Janet Lynn, for instance, never won a world championship (even though they changed the rules to try to make her win in 1973). But she won the U.S. championship 5 times and when she retired she signed a pro contract that made her the worlds richest female athlete.
Skate America was also given big media hype. In both men and ladies, U.S. skaters won eight out of the first ten times.
For some reason, the United States just is not interested in the stars of other countries. When U.S. skaters stopped winning championships, we just gave up on the sport altogether.
It would be more realistic and logic that Japan would have always GPF, they have the public, I dont´see any reason why ISU would prefer USA to Japan. Someone just wrote in FSU Thank goodness for the Japanese fans. Bet tickets for Grand Prix Final sold in a nanosecond ..., and we all know that tickets in Japan are not cheap. But I am happy that isu rotates it.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
For some reason, the United States just is not interested in the stars of other countries. When U.S. skaters stopped winning championships, we just gave up on the sport altogether.
One hopes that commercial endorsements and an Olympic medal (of any color) for Nathan Chen might be nice in driving some interest. Men's skating has never had the appeal of ladies in the US, but I don't think the US has had any "cool" men contending for OGM since Brian Boitano. Johnny Weir, arguably, but his appeal was also polarizing to certain populations. Todd, Michael Weiss, Tim, Evan - Nathan is cooler than all of them.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
I think that Mariah CAN reach the podium at rostelecom, but I don’t think she will.
Ditto for Mirai. I predict that 2 Russians and probably Carolina will do that.
Any word on whether or not she changed her WSS program?
Ditto for Mirai. I predict that 2 Russians and probably Carolina will do that. Any word on whether or not she changed her WSS program?
This would be true IF any younger U.S. skater can demonstrate any consistency in putting out two decent programs in the same competition. Even when Ashley doesn't skate her best, she always can be counted on to deliver a certain base score & to not implode. Karen & Mariah (and Gracie, if she returns in form) have higher potential scores, but also have shown that bombing is a possibility. The wildcard is Mirai, who has been showing improved BV & consistency.
I guess USFS will have to weigh risk/reward. Ashley is the "safe" choice, but will the fed want to shoot for a higher medal with someone less proven?
Mariah has higher scoring potential over Ashley? Mariah's highest scores don't come close to Ashley's best scores. It's not like Mariah is a jumping machine her jumps are fine but nothing spectacular and her PCS will always be lagging behind Ashley. If other skaters underperform Ashley could sneak onto the podium at the Olympics but Mariah simply isn't in the mix internationally right now except for SA last year she hasn't had great results.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
What the US needs is another Battle of the Brian's style rivalry. Maybe Nathan and Hanyu will battle it out all season and finish 1-2 at GPF. That will create a buzz among skating fans and hopefully drag the general public in as well. If a good marketing team gets a hold of it, like they did in 1988, we could see big ratings here in the US. Here's a brief column on Brian and Brian. https://www.olympic.org/news/re-live-the-battle-of-the-brians
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2017
Mirai could sneak into CoR podium i believe, it wont be easy though. after seeing how the skaters do in their summer comp/senior b top 4 will be Evgenia, Wakaba, Kostner/Mirai. Mirai need to be clean like she did in Japan Open since we know Kostner is backed up with 70+ PCS even if she flub completely in TES like she did in Finlandia. Elena could probably surprise us if she's back in her last season form
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
The current men's field is wayyyyy too deep for a one-on-one rivalry. Which is great for the sport, but I don't think it is as compelling for new audiences because it's too complicated.
So we're talking Ladies in the men's thread and men in the ladies thread. 
In other news, Courtney Hicks got an invite to Skate Canada!!
http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=90934&type=media
In other news, Courtney Hicks got an invite to Skate Canada!!
http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=90934&type=media
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I agree. If you go back to Sochi, Jason is the only male skater left on the team. If he doesn't make the team, most casual US fans won't recognize any of our Men. Especially Nathan and Vincent as they're so young. Hopefully Jason, Max or Adam will the team as they are all popular with skating fans.
considering that she and many people say she has difficulty learning new choreography, I think she should have gone weeks ago and not until now, since champs camp it was known that she would keep the same programs, I do not understand, what she has been doing all this time ?
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
TOS... Terms of Service?
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2016
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Potential, yes. Mariah does flip and lutz in the short and repeats both flip and lutz in the free (I think both in triple triple combinations even). So yes Mariah's base TES and scoring potential is higher than Ashley's and actually most of the USA ladies.
