2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[temadd]

This was probably the second or third TSL I listened to and I have to say I did not enjoy it. I probably enjoyed such snarky, mean comments when I was 18 or so. Now I'm looking for constructive and objective. I find Ice Talk a much better show. TSL I've listened to in the past had guest skaters who offered their insight. This episode was just mean gossip.

Anyway, it says more about the two of them than about the skaters they are discussing.

I too have grown tired of TSL. It was a little better with Jenny Kirk involved but Dave is way to catty and sometimes hurtful.

 

[andromache]

Have you listened to Ice Talk? The hosts really know a lot about skating and they have great guests on the show. It's very informative and constructive. They have both people who analyze skating and give a good overview of what is going on, as well as athletes who speak from their perspective. Adam Rippon was a guest in the last episode.

I like Ice Talk. Their interviews are usually pretty great, if a little on the fluffy side. The analysis varies depending on who their "discussion" guest is (usually a journalist, then they have the "interview" portion of the episode with a skater). I think Lynn Rutherford is a little too "nice" for my tastes, for example, and in general I wish their analysis would be a little more critical. Phil Hersh was my favorite. I know people around here hate him, but his sheer love and passion for both the athletic AND artistic sides of the sport, his knowledge, and his willingness to not be so nice all the time make him wonderful to listen to. He has an American bias in his reporting focus (he reports for US readers, after all), but his overall appreciation for great skating has nothing at all to do with nationality.

Basically I want Phil Hersh to have a podcast.

 

[SkaterX]

They did not call Ashley TOS... they called repeating the same program three times TOS... big difference.

The exact quote is “I think the third year is when you’re TOS.” And then they go on to say TOS is when we still love you but you're not the best version of yourself etc etc so the way they phrased it it's a definitely a reflection of the skater not just reusing the same program.

 

[R.D.]

It's harsh. It's very very harsh. At the same time, based on what we saw of her most recent performance, I think it's a valid (harsh, but valid) assessment. She looked slooooooow. The program is stale - and wearing the 2014-2015 dress doesn't help (though I assume she will have a new costume by her first GP event).

Unfortunately I think the highs of Ashley's career have come between Olympic years - in 2012-2013 and 2015-2016.

I 100% understand why Ashley decided to use Moulin Rouge, but I think the judges will have grown tired of it, many fans have grown tired of it, and when your primary strength is your artistry, it's going to hurt how people see you if you reuse a program for a third season, especially if you have not added anything in terms of improved skating skills or elements.

Remember though, it's (still) early. Can't really expect a full masterpiece at this point, even if it's a reused program (skaters not at peak form yet).

That said, I agree with you re. Wagner's peaks.

 

[mrrice]

The exact quote is “I think the third year is when you’re TOS.” And then they go on to say TOS is when we still love you but you're not the best version of yourself etc etc so the way they phrased it it's a definitely a reflection of the skater not just reusing the same program.

What is TOS?

 

[Moxiejan]

Basically I want Phil Hersh to have a podcast.

Yes, or Christine Brennan. Better yet, the two of them together.

 

[jFarrisFAN]

Potential, yes. Mariah does flip and lutz in the short and repeats both flip and lutz in the free (I think both in triple triple combinations even). So yes Mariah's base TES and scoring potential is higher than Ashley's and actually most of the USA ladies.

MIRAI has highest BV potential. Short 3A 3F3T and 3Lz and she does 3A and repeats loop and toe in long now. I think she almost had higher BV than Alina at the Japan open IIRC.

 

[Barb]

What is TOS?

SkaterX said it is Tired old ***, I guess the S is Sh..i..t.

 

[SkaterX]

What is TOS?

Here's a link to the segment in the video where they talk about it

https://youtu.be/-OSxf6iBpWw?t=4m39s

 

[skylark]

Lol people love to act like Ashley is some Fourth rate skater from the middle
Of nowhere who can barley complete a jump and just ~happened to get lucky and win a few things.

:agree: That's the truth.

And on a forum like GS, which is supposedly made up of people who love figure skating. You'd think being kind to the skaters, and supportive, for all the Beauty they bring to us, would be more of a priority. Instead, people love to bring certain skaters down, and Ashley is without doubt one of those.

No. She works so hard and delivers when the pressure is on. Three Grand Prix final medals, 13 individual Grand Prix medals(6 golds), A world silver medal and Three time
National champion. You don't get those kind of results consistently by being "tired old sh!t" honestly I would love to see other skaters results if they got put under the under rotation microscope as much as Ashley does. So she had one off season and people are ready to completely write her off. we've been here before with Ashley and she's come back stronger every time. If she had listen to all the bs after Sochi the US would still be in a worlds medal drought. I hate the fact that she has two repeats but I believe she will have success this season! Doubt and snark on her skating is how she thrives so hopefully that ridiculous comment just awakened the beast

"The reason I've been able to get this far is because I'm stubborn and I don't listen to people who tell me I'm not good enough. I think that's what has carried me this far in my career." --Ashley Wagner
​

 

[noidont]

Here is a thought: if you don't like a certain self-produced no-budget youtube figure skating talkshow, don't watch it...I don't understand why people keep consuming something they hate so much. I myself wish Lease could go back to blogging. I can't bear to watch his face or listen to his voice but had always enjoyed his writing. It also seems that people are a lot more tolerant toward snarky comments when they can't put them together with human faces.
And let's be honest, everyone thinks it's a bad idea to repeat a program three times. I suspect all the Wagner cheerleaders are trying very hard to repress their disappointments. Winning medals or not, repeating both programs, one of which a threepeat is about as lazy as it gets.

 

[mrrice]

Here's a link to the segment in the video where they talk about it

https://youtu.be/-OSxf6iBpWw?t=4m39s

Holy Cow!!!! :disapp: It certainly wasn't "Terms Of Service" was it.....I miss Jenny.

 

[Lamente Ariane]

Speaking as an Ashley Wagner fan (and a fan of Yuzuru Hanyu, who I suppose is also "TOS" in some people's eyes for threepeating Chopin) I have discovered this season that I prefer recycling great old programs to bringing out underwhelming new programs. I'm honestly much more excited to see Ashley revitalize her old programs than I am to see more of Mariah's new FS, for example. Sure, the best case scenario is new programs that hit the bull's eye, but for every masterpiece there's plenty of forgettable ones.

 

[mrrice]

Speaking as an Ashley Wagner fan (and a fan of Yuzuru Hanyu, who I suppose is also "TOS" in some people's eyes for threepeating Chopin) I have discovered this season that I prefer recycling great old programs to bringing out underwhelming new programs. I'm honestly much more excited to see Ashley revitalize her old programs than I am to see more of Mariah's new FS, for example. Sure, the best case scenario is new programs that hit the bull's eye, but for every masterpiece there's plenty of forgettable ones.

I agree. As for Mariah.......I keep hoping to log in and see that she has gone back to East Of Eden. That program, at least in my eyes, would not feel old or stale if she were to go back to it. Especially if her new program isn't connecting with the judges.

 

[el henry]

Perhaps a glimmer of hope for Mariah? @DorisPulaski posted in the FanFest that Mariah's bio now lists Rohene as her choreographer

If true, woot!:hap57:

The LP is still listed as WSS, but perhaps Rohene can transform it. The SP is now listed as "Stand by Me". Or perhaps the page is totally wrong....

And to go off on another tangent, if Dave Lease is "tough"and "keeping it real", then I am Rohene Ward. And trust me, I'm not nearly so fab

 

[R.D.]

Here is a thought: if you don't like a certain self-produced no-budget youtube figure skating talkshow, don't watch it...I don't understand why people keep consuming something they hate so much. I myself wish Lease could go back to blogging. I can't bear to watch his face or listen to his voice but had always enjoyed his writing. It also seems that people are a lot more tolerant toward snarky comments when they can't put them together with human faces.
And let's be honest, everyone thinks it's a bad idea to repeat a program three times. I suspect all the Wagner cheerleaders are trying very hard to repress their disappointments. Winning medals or not, repeating both programs, one of which a threepeat is about as lazy as it gets.

Heck, I even sometimes forget TSL is still around until someone brings them up again...that's what I think of them :agree:

I won't knock Wagner for doing what, in her mind, she needs to do to stay relevant - but I will say from a strictly **PERSONAL** point of view that I was expecting more out of her this season. You do what you gotta do though, and at the end of the day, it's just a soundtrack...the jumps, spins and elements are what get you the points.

And while this "controversy" is swirling, I'm getting the impression from interviews that the MR decision was actually Coach Arutunian's idea, not Wagner's (although ultimately, depending on your view it could still be on Wagner for having the final say)...?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

From Mirai's IG Story - I posted it in her Fan thread too:

Clarification - Pt. 1 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u9

Clarification - Pt. 2 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u8

 

[skylark]

Speaking as an Ashley Wagner fan (and a fan of Yuzuru Hanyu, who I suppose is also "TOS" in some people's eyes for threepeating Chopin) I have discovered this season that I prefer recycling great old programs to bringing out underwhelming new programs. I'm honestly much more excited to see Ashley revitalize her old programs than I am to see more of Mariah's new FS, for example. Sure, the best case scenario is new programs that hit the bull's eye, but for every masterpiece there's plenty of forgettable ones.

I agree. In a FSO interview, Alexa and Chris said that they were advised that it was felt they'd get better results reprising Ghost than they would with their proposed new FS.

What Rafael said to Ashley reflects exactly the same judgment. "this (MR) is the program I want you to do" (for Olympic season) He said this after telling her that LLL is also a "really good program." http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

Ashley mentions in this article that she was feeling the LaLaLand character, for her purposes, had a limited emotional range. Ashley's power lies in her emotional connections: with the music, with the character, with the story, and with the audience.

Why shouldn't Ashley do what she does best, in an Olympic season?

 

[noskates]

For me - repeating a program isn't a big deal. It's how you skate that program that counts. I don't know why everybody gets worked up about it. Generally speaking the program evolves into something more than it was the last year. You can pay a lot of money to get new choreography and music but if you don't connect with it it doesn't matter.

 

[apgold]

From Mirai's IG Story - I posted it in her Fan thread too:

Clarification - Pt. 1 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u9

Clarification - Pt. 2 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u8

Saw that on her IG story the other day. I wasn't sure what she was referring to in terms of clarification of some previous statement, but either way, it's nice to know that she may not retire after the Olympics if she wants to keep competing. Obviously nobody is expecting her to stick around until 2022 (when she would be 28), but I welcome seeing more Mirai if she wants to keep going.

(I also love how Darian is behind her - they are cute together)