2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[skylark]

I won't knock Wagner for doing what, in her mind, she needs to do to stay relevant - but I will say from a strictly **PERSONAL** point of view that I was expecting more out of her this season. You do what you gotta do though, and at the end of the day, it's just a soundtrack...the jumps, spins and elements are what get you the points.

People are always scolding Ashley for her technical issues. How many women upped their technical content at age 23 or more? Ashley has. Now people are complaining about her musical choices ... repetitively, btw. This from some of the same ones who give the impression they don't value performance elements as much anyway ... especially in the case of Ashley Wagner. Whatever her reasons are, it isn't laziness. That is a false accusation. Not made by you, R.D. but more than once in this thread.

 

[mrrice]

For me - repeating a program isn't a big deal. It's how you skate that program that counts. I don't know why everybody gets worked up about it. Generally speaking the program evolves into something more than it was the last year. You can pay a lot of money to get new choreography and music but if you don't connect with it it doesn't matter.

I agree, we have all seen movie sequels and this is basically the same thing. As long she adds new nuances and maybe a couple of re-cuts to the music, I think she'll be fine, especially if she skates well.

 

[Seren]

Mariah has a lot of potential, but her train wreck of an LP isn't going to help her.

As for TSL, my problem is that they aren't really snarky, they're mean. There is a difference. So I choose to ignore them but everyone has a right to their opinion. I would also second the idea of Phil Hersh having a podcast- that I would listen to.

 

[mrrice]

Mariah has a lot of potential, but her train wreck of an LP isn't going to help her.

As for TSL, my problem is that they aren't really snarky, they're mean. There is a difference. So I choose to ignore them but everyone has a right to their opinion. I would also second the idea of Phil Hersh having a podcast- that I would listen to.

I agree. They're seeming lack of respect for the time, money, and hard work that these skaters endure just to get themselves ready for the Olympic Season. IMO, It's something they should applaud regardless of a skaters program.

I've been looking for this clip and finally found it. It's Nicole Bobek........ I feel like she took the words right out of my mouth when says.........I'd see a group of friends laughing and having fun and I'd get so jealous......That's the life these skaters lead and I wish TSL would do a feature on that. When I was in school, I didn't go to a single dance or attend a football game. It wasn't until college that I really did any extra curricular activities. Here's Nicole....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgfcohSFIOE

 

[SkaterX]

Here is a thought: if you don't like a certain self-produced no-budget youtube figure skating talkshow, don't watch it...I don't understand why people keep consuming something they hate so much. I myself wish Lease could go back to blogging. I can't bear to watch his face or listen to his voice but had always enjoyed his writing. It also seems that people are a lot more tolerant toward snarky comments when they can't put them together with human faces.
And let's be honest, everyone thinks it's a bad idea to repeat a program three times. I suspect all the Wagner cheerleaders are trying very hard to repress their disappointments. Winning medals or not, repeating both programs, one of which a threepeat is about as lazy as it gets.

This was the first of their videos I watched but I don't think I'll be tuning in again.

 

[ice coverage]

From Mirai's IG Story - I posted it in her Fan thread too:

Clarification - Pt. 1 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u9

Clarification - Pt. 2 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6472u8

Saw that on her IG story the other day. I wasn't sure what she was referring to in terms of clarification of some previous statement, but either way, it's nice to know that she may not retire after the Olympics if she wants to keep competing. Obviously nobody is expecting her to stick around until 2022 (when she would be 28), but I welcome seeing more Mirai if she wants to keep going.

(I also love how Darian is behind her - they are cute together)

A video of Mirai performing at Japan Open was in her Instagram story immediately preceding these two.
My understanding is that the Japan Open commentary apparently said (in error) that this season would be the last season that Mirai would be competing.

So Mirai wanted to clarify that the commentary was incorrect on that point.

I too am happy that she is not planning to retire yet.
(And agree re Darian.)

Thanks to Sasha'sSpins for preserving the Instagram stories.

---

Top four in Senior Ladies SP today at 2018 Southwestern Regionals:

1 Brynne McIsaac, Broadmoor SC 60.67
2 Avery Kurtz, Broadmoor SC 56.55 (qualified for Nats as senior lady in at least one previous season)
3 Emily Chan, Dallas FSC 55.11
4 Reese Gautsche, Colorado SC 42.23​

 

[Blades of Passion]

As for TSL, my problem is that they aren't really snarky, they're mean. There is a difference. So I choose to ignore them but everyone has a right to their opinion. I would also second the idea of Phil Hersh having a podcast- that I would listen to.

I don't think people understand the lingo being used. I listened to the thing linked about Ashley being called "TOS" and it's not meant to be taken literally. Rather, it's an accurate assessment of someone slipping in their technical ability, named with an exaggerated term to playfully highlight the issue. This is even explicitly stated, so I don't understand how people are still confused. It's just a more colorful way of saying "this skater is probably not going to get back to the technical peak of their career."

A Phil Hersh podcast would be awful, why would you want to listen to that? I've never once heard him say anything insightful about the artistic worth of a program or what a skater could do to improve, particularly in terms of skating these days. He doesn't understand the system or even skating in a more objective sense. He's just someone who is paid to write about it, a literal armchair critic.

Well, we do know where the jump takes off

But you don't, nor do the tech callers many times it seems:

On the lutz, it's pretty clear the direction Karen is moving into the jump, that she has a great take-off, and she lands roughly right at 1/4 turn short, as her blade is flat and perpendicular compared to the direction the jump moved through the air.

Again I will repeat what I said:

When you do a real curved back outside edge takeoff on the Lutz, the blade is counter-rotating from the direction of the jump. When a skater glides backwards into a Lutz and takes off with ideal technique, they don't actually takeoff in the direction of that back glide, they take off "before" that point.

And no she usually doesn't land 1/4 "short" on her opening Lutzes of the program, those are usually perfectly backwards. She sometimes does land 1/4 "short" on her last lutz of the program though, or unfortunately even more than 1/4 turn "short" sometimes, which is when she does deserve to get the < call, based upon the current rules. She usually falls on the jump whenever she lands too short, but if she did manage to land the jump cleanly like that, then judges should be taking into account the other aspects of the jump and score the GOE accurately - the height, the takeoff edge, the lack of pre-rotation.

 

[skylark]

Does anyone have a link to the Instagram story of Ashley's where she said she's presently working with Shae-Lynne? I searched google but couldn't find it.

 

[Icey]

Consciously or unconsciously the criticisms of Ashley repeating the MR program will be in her head. What degree of insecurity will that create in her.? Yes, it is early in the season, but some of her old technical problems
were showing in her skate at the Calif invitational 2017. I wish those were "TOS" lol.

 

[skylark]

Consciously or unconsciously the criticisms of Ashley repeating the MR program will be in her head. What degree of insecurity will that create in her.? Yes, it is early in the season, but some of her old technical problems
were showing in her skate at the Calif invitational 2017.

As has been mentioned several times in the last few pages of this thread, fortunately Ashley doesn't listen to people who tell her she's not good enough. As evasorange said, if Ashley had paid attention to all the b.s. before and after Sochi, the USA would still be in a Ladies World Medal Drought. We're all lucky that Ashley uses such talk as fuel to motivate her.

After watching the SoCal invitational skate, I had a few doubts. But then I remembered Japan Open 2015 when she skated Moulin Rouge, and it looked like it was going to be the same as the year before. Actually, she just hadn't been able to re-work it with Shae-Lynne at that time, because of their respective schedules. I think she may have gone to SoCal this year because in years past she'd been to JO at about the same time. So-Cal was a good way to get the first competition of the season under her belt.

By the time of her first GP in 2015, Ashley had completely transformed MR, and then it continued to evolve. So I'm not worried.

 

[ice coverage]

Does anyone have a link to the Instagram story of Ashley's where she said she's presently working with Shae-Lynne? I searched google but couldn't find it.

Those Instagram stories were from at least a couple of days ago, IIRC.
Their 24-hr lifetime already is over and they no longer are available on Ashley's account.

AFAIK, you are out of luck ... unless someone (such as a meticulous fan) made a point of saving the video elsewhere.
(I have no idea whether anyone did.)

 

[draqq]

Consciously or unconsciously the criticisms of Ashley repeating the MR program will be in her head. What degree of insecurity will that create in her.? Yes, it is early in the season, but some of her old technical problems
were showing in her skate at the Calif invitational 2017. I wish those were "TOS" lol.

True. As much I like her MR program, I think she's already skated about the best she can with that program already. Perhaps she can perform faster spins and get the triple-triple combos higher and fully rotated. But I'm not sure how much more mileage she can get out of program. But hey, maybe she'll surprise us with new choreography during the GP series.

 

[draqq]

For me - repeating a program isn't a big deal. It's how you skate that program that counts. I don't know why everybody gets worked up about it. Generally speaking the program evolves into something more than it was the last year. You can pay a lot of money to get new choreography and music but if you don't connect with it it doesn't matter.

For me, it depends on the program. If it's a program that doesn't really show the skater's best qualities, then repeating it would be a Sisyphean task. On the flip side, if it's a program that have already done superbly, there's just not much room for improvement (sort of just competing with yourself). But I think a skater gets better mileage out of redoing a program that has room to be greatly reworked somehow.

It's been this year in particular, though, that I feel as if way too much skaters are repeating programs, to the point that I feel like I'm watching 2015 all over again. I'm actually surprised that Patrick Chan, out of all people, is performing two new programs. But I just feel slightly underwhelmed this Olympic season with the repetition.

 

[draqq]

And lest I forget, I must say I'm resonating with Angela Wang's long program. Her performance at Finlandia was quite strong; the music really suits her and her jumps look fantastic this early in the season.

 

[puremagic]

Impressive skate by Hanna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=005fqbYyWDc (55.87 points)

Sad about lutz. But wow. I see full packaged skater. Jumps, speed, spins. Everything. Very nice.

 

[macy]

Impressive skate by Hanna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=005fqbYyWDc (55.87 points)

Sad about lutz. But wow. I see full packaged skater. Jumps, speed, spins. Everything. Very nice.

I love her jumps! she has a lot of potential, can't wait to see how she matures over the next few years.

 

[draqq]

Impressive skate by Hanna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=005fqbYyWDc (55.87 points)

Sad about lutz. But wow. I see full packaged skater. Jumps, speed, spins. Everything. Very nice.

Indeed, strong basics. High jumps and despite the fall on the lutz, she can definitely rotate the jump with both arms above the head. I hope she learns to have more facial expression and stronger edge work as she matures, but a very solid start.

 

[mrrice]

Impressive skate by Hanna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=005fqbYyWDc (55.87 points)

Sad about lutz. But wow. I see full packaged skater. Jumps, speed, spins. Everything. Very nice.

Holy Cow!!! I hope this young girl is getting all the support she needs. She is the future for the US Ladies. I don't even think we have a Senior Lady who can match that opening combo. It's a shame about the Lutz but, hopefully it will happen in her LP. That was a well choreographed program and as a dancer, I can tell you that her falling leaf is one of the best I've seen from a Junior since Sasha Cohen. That was a wonderful surprise.....:2thumbs:

 

[skylark]

Those Instagram stories were from at least a couple of days ago, IIRC.
Their 24-hr lifetime already is over and they no longer are available on Ashley's account.

AFAIK, you are out of luck ... unless someone (such as a meticulous fan) made a point of saving the video elsewhere.
(I have no idea whether anyone did.)

thank you for the information!

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Unfortunately I don’t see her getting usfsa support or getting any buzz about her. The usfsa picks the people they decide they like, and considering I’d never heard of this girl before doesn’t bode well.