2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[andromache]

I agree. If you back to Sochi, Jason is the only male skater left on the team. If he doesn't make the team, most casual US fans won't recognize any of our Men. Especially Nathan and Vincent as they're so young. Hopefully Jason, Max or Adam will the team as they are all popular with skating fans.

Heck, and that's just nationally! Internationally, there are at least 6 men with realistic chances at OGM. The Battle of Yuzu, Nathan, Boyang, Shoma, Javi, and Patrick just doesn't have the same ring to it as "The Battle of the Brians."

Did anyone catch the latest TSL where they call Ashley "TOS"? Although she is repeating MR a third time I think they really crossed the line on that one...

It's harsh. It's very very harsh. At the same time, based on what we saw of her most recent performance, I think it's a valid (harsh, but valid) assessment. She looked slooooooow. The program is stale - and wearing the 2014-2015 dress doesn't help (though I assume she will have a new costume by her first GP event).

Unfortunately I think the highs of Ashley's career have come between Olympic years - in 2012-2013 and 2015-2016.

I 100% understand why Ashley decided to use Moulin Rouge, but I think the judges will have grown tired of it, many fans have grown tired of it, and when your primary strength is your artistry, it's going to hurt how people see you if you reuse a program for a third season, especially if you have not added anything in terms of improved skating skills or elements.

 

[Barb]

Tired old ****...

I think that term apply to Dave, Jonathan and their video. I tried to watch it and I could not pass the first 5 min. I would have a more productive time just lying on the floor contemplating the ceiling than listening to those two persons.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It's harsh. It's very very harsh. At the same time, based on what we saw of her most recent performance, I think it's a valid (harsh, but valid) assessment. She looked slooooooow. The program is stale - and wearing the 2014-2015 dress doesn't help (though I assume she will have a new costume by her first GP event).

Any difference will only be a marginal improvement over her 2016 performance at Worlds. I don't think reusing MR will have a huge impact on her scores. However, like you said, she relies on her artistry for high placements because she gives up points on BV and sometimes GOE; I don't know if that program can still "wow" the judges like it needs to. Obviously, if her competitors are falling left and right and she doesn't, she'll be fine. If it's a close decision, I think it could make a difference.

 

[andromache]

I think that term apply to Dave, Jonathan and their video. I tried to watch it and I could not pass the first 5 min. I would have a more productive time just lying on the floor contemplating the ceiling than listening to those two persons.

Eh, different strokes for different folks. They're rude and snarky, but they have decades of watching the sport behind them and they don't play favorites (and if they do have favorites, like Jonathan with Papadakis/Cizeron, they can admit their bias, which is refreshing).

 

[artsciboy]

Eh, different strokes for different folks. They're rude and snarky, but they have decades of watching the sport behind them and they don't play favorites (and if they do have favorites, like Jonathan with Papadakis/Cizeron, they can admit their bias, which is refreshing).

What's not refreshing is how blatantly harsh they are about skaters who have made it clear they want nothing more to do with them. Its not a surprise that they haven't been able to score any prolific guests in some time. I am not surprised if skaters with some clout in the skating community have convinced others to rally against Dave (and now Jonathan's) tirades. Case in point, Ashley and Adam - skaters who have generously given their time to TSL in the past and who now make it known that they won't put up with TSL's antics - now get the brunt of the criticism from Dave and Jonathan on these recaps. How mature of TSL!

 

[humbaba]

BTW, Americans do not watch sports they do not win in. This rotation schedule will be pointless unless a popular American skater is not only a favorite to win but has already won major champsionships in the past. We won't build viewership on just major championship. We need winners first.

Agree with this pretty much, however I can think of one big exception. In the 1970s American interest in women's gymnastics skyrocketed because of the Olympic performances of Olga Korbut and Nadia Comaneci. Women's gymnastics became a marquee sport in the summer Olys and and other international comps were covered extensively on television as well. Gymnastics became a popular recreational sport for little girls across the US. This all happened despite despite the US not being competitive internationally. Eventually the popularity of the sport and the large pool of pupils attracted good coaches to America. The rest is history. Of late the US has been dominant in women's gymnastics; but public interested was spawned back in the 70s and persisted for many years during which the US was only sporadically producing internationally competitive gymnasts.

So there is a precedent for the American public falling in love with foreign athletes and a sport in which the US has little international success. So we can hope.

Though realistically, it would be much harder for a Nadia/Olga type phenomenon to occur today. There was much less competition for the public's attention in the past. Nowadays, there are so many entertainment options; the competition for eyeballs is fierce.

 

[pearly]

What's not refreshing is how blatantly harsh they are about skaters who have made it clear they want nothing more to do with them. Its not a surprise that they haven't been able to score any prolific guests in some time. I am not surprised if skaters with some clout in the skating community have convinced others to rally against Dave (and now Jonathan's) tirades. Case in point, Ashley and Adam - skaters who have generously given their time to TSL in the past and who now make it known that they won't put up with TSL's antics - now get the brunt of the criticism from Dave and Jonathan on these recaps. How mature of TSL!

This was probably the second or third TSL I listened to and I have to say I did not enjoy it. I probably enjoyed such snarky, mean comments when I was 18 or so. Now I'm looking for constructive and objective. I find Ice Talk a much better show. TSL I've listened to in the past had guest skaters who offered their insight. This episode was just mean gossip.

Anyway, it says more about the two of them than about the skaters they are discussing.

 

[Moxiejan]

Mariah has higher scoring potential over Ashley? Mariah's highest scores don't come close to Ashley's best scores. It's not like Mariah is a jumping machine her jumps are fine but nothing spectacular and her PCS will always be lagging behind Ashley. If other skaters underperform Ashley could sneak onto the podium at the Olympics but Mariah simply isn't in the mix internationally right now except for SA last year she hasn't had great results.

I was assuming BV potential (not history) with all jumps & combos landed cleanly, and all spin levels achieved. I don't think Mariah has managed her "best possible score" yet; Ashley possibly has. And my comment was in reference to team competition only, in which a difference of one or two positions (on the podium or not) affects a team's score.

 

[skylark]

considering that she and many people say she has difficulty learning new choreography, I think she should have gone weeks ago and not until now, since champs camp it was known that she would keep the same programs, I do not understand, what she has been doing all this time ?

I'm only guessing; it might be scheduling. In the past, she's mentioned scheduling extra sessions with Shae-Lynne weeks or months in advance. Between Shae's other clients and Ashley's media events, etc. it could have been difficult. This is one reason I think it's so valuable to have the choreographer one works with on site. Like Wilson at the Cricket Club, Rohene at 7K. They can get mini-sessions in here and there. I realize that's not necessarily the norm.

I'm very heartened to hear that she's working with Shae at present. I believe 100% in Ashley's ability to make HHCC exuberant and MR magical.

 

[icellist]

Congrats to Courtney! I really think the ISU should add a clause in GP selections that all medalists from the previous season are guaranteed 1 spot...

Someone from the programs thread noted that Mariah has changed her SP. So if she changes her SP, maybe she can go back to EoE? Sorry Cindy but that WSS is a mess.

 

[noidont]

I don't quite understand why Mariah Bell's PCS is always very low. Her performance quality is better than all other US ladies. Jumps are not topnotch, but they are not bad looking. She shouldn't be in the Dabin Choi range of PCS.

 

[andromache]

I don't quite understand why Mariah Bell's PCS is always very low. Her performance quality is better than all other US ladies. Jumps are not topnotch, but they are not bad looking. She shouldn't be in the Dabin Choi range of PCS.

I honestly find Mariah and Dabin Choi to be kind of on the same level? Not that that's a bad thing - I think Dabin has had some really excellent moments, but she's never been able to gain momentum to begin earning higher PCS + she is from a weak federation. Like Dabin, Mariah hasn't been able to build momentum with any repeated successes. Mariah has USFS backing her, sure, but she's not the #1-2 US lady (she's tied with a few other ladies for #3), so she's not getting the big political backing.

Mariah's LP is one of the worst programs I've seen so far this season. That won't help her case any.

 

[skylark]

]I think that term apply to Dave, Jonathan and their video.[/B] I tried to watch it and I could not pass the first 5 min. I would have a more productive time just lying on the floor contemplating the ceiling than listening to those two persons.

I agree completely. I tried to listen for longer than that, just to make sure I wasn't judging them because of their nastiness to my beloved AW. But I gave up -- the thing was just dreck.

What's not refreshing is how blatantly harsh they are about skaters who have made it clear they want nothing more to do with them. Its not a surprise that they haven't been able to score any prolific guests in some time. I am not surprised if skaters with some clout in the skating community have convinced others to rally against Dave (and now Jonathan's) tirades. Case in point, Ashley and Adam - skaters who have generously given their time to TSL in the past and who now make it known that they won't put up with TSL's antics - now get the brunt of the criticism from Dave and Jonathan on these recaps. How mature of TSL!

:agree:

 

[evasorange]

Lol people love to act like Ashley is some Fourth rate skater from the middle
Of nowhere who can barley complete a jump and just ~happened to get lucky and win a few things. No. She works so hard and delivers when the pressure is on. Three Grand Prix final medals, 13 individual Grand Prix medals(6 golds), A world silver medal and Three time
National champion. You don't get those kind of results consistently by being "tired old sh!t" honestly I would love to see other skaters results if they got put under the under rotation microscope as much as Ashley does. So she had one off season and people are ready to completely write her off. we've been here before with Ashley and she's come back stronger every time. If she had listen to all the bs after Sochi the US would still be in a worlds medal drought. I hate the fact that she has two repeats but I believe she will have success this season! Doubt and snark on her skating is how she thrives so hopefully that ridiculous comment just awakened the beast

 

[humbaba]

TOS... Terms of Service?

I looked this acronym up in the Urban Dictionary and found results ranging from "terminate on sight" to "an abbreviation for 'burritos' ". Here's an interesting list of the possible meanings of TOS. http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TOS

 

[pearly]

Case in point, Ashley and Adam - skaters who have generously given their time to TSL in the past and who now make it known that they won't put up with TSL's antics - now get the brunt of the criticism from Dave and Jonathan on these recaps. How mature of TSL!

Did anything in particular happen that Ashley and Adam stopped collaborating with TSL?

 

[andromache]

I'm also sincerely hoping that Ashley proves all the haters (and me, a fan who loves her but is skeptical of her current abilities/programs) wrong. Being an underdog always lights a fire under her, and I'm sure she realizes the hard fight ahead of her, both in terms of selling fans and judges on an old program and in getting the TES she needs to be competitive for an Olympic medal.

IMO, there's nothing wrong with fans making criticisms and setting their expectations low. TSL takes that to the extreme in terms of the negative language they use, though I rarely/never get the impression that Dave et al WANT skaters to do poorly. Figure skating itself is in part a world of gossip and snark and shallow judgments, and TSL reflects that. The world of figure skating webshows/podcasts/entertainment is limited, and I personally prefer Dave's "keeping it real" approach (even when it crosses the line or I personally disagree with him) over the nationalistic bias or the "let's pretend everyone has a realistic chance at winning!" attitude of some others. I also watch a lot of garbage reality tv. I have my guilty pleasures.

Which I think just goes to show the lack of balanced, objective, and entertaining analysis out there, at least in an audio format.

 

[Skatingcat]

I think it's impossible for any reporter in any media not to have a point of view and/or bias. Even the judges of the competitions clearly have those they like better when they are not officially judging.

I appreciate the candor of skaters and reporters (although I wish many wouldn't comment so much while the skaters are skating). Even when they have opinions I disagree with.

Back to women's skating. I hope that Ashley performs the hell out of her programs, recycled or not. I'm unabashedly a fan of Mirai's, and I'm thrilled to see her doing so well this season. The way it's shaping up, I think Nationals is going to be veeeery Interesting!

 

[StitchMonkey]

Did anyone catch the latest TSL where they call Ashley "TOS"? Although she is repeating MR a third time I think they really crossed the line on that one...

They did not call Ashley TOS... they called repeating the same program three times TOS... big difference.

 

[pearly]

Which I think just goes to show the lack of balanced, objective, and entertaining analysis out there, at least in an audio format.

Have you listened to Ice Talk? The hosts really know a lot about skating and they have great guests on the show. It's very informative and constructive. They have both people who analyze skating and give a good overview of what is going on, as well as athletes who speak from their perspective. Adam Rippon was a guest in the last episode.

My only issue with Ice Talk is that Jackie Wong sometimes sounds unprepared, I feel like he spends a lot of time repeating parts of his own questions or sentences. I don't know if he's trying make what he is saying sound more complicated and smarter, but I find it a waste of time. I remember a live recap he did right after one of the free skate events at Worlds in Helsinki and I just couldn't finish it. Other than that I really appreciate his work.