Shoma Uno's quad Lutz

Shoma bringing the Lutz in practice:
http://tinyurl.com/yavbrkpj

Am I correct in thinking that of the current men only Shoma and Nathan have the full quad arsenal?

ETA: just remembered I've never seen Nathan do a quad loop.

I haven't been able to view the 4Lz clip you linked to because flash player is no friend of my computer, but I'm chiming in anyway...

emipeters said:

ETA: just remembered I've never seen Nathan do a quad loop.

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I first read this as "just remembered I've seen Nathan do a quad loop" and was like WHUT?! REALLY?!? since Nathan seems a lot more comfortable with toe jumps than edge jumps.

OTOH, lutz isn't Shoma's strongest jump (those edge calls...) either so this came as a bit of a surprise for me, too.

emipeters said:

Shoma bringing the Lutz in practice:
http://tinyurl.com/yavbrkpj

Am I correct in thinking that of the current men only Shoma and Nathan have the full quad arsenal?

ETA: just remembered I've never seen Nathan do a quad loop.

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They'd both be needing the 4A for that.

emipeters said:

Am I correct in thinking that of the current men only Shoma and Nathan have the full quad arsenal?

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Shoma is also missing the 4S, unless I missed it sometime in the off season?
But Nathan and him are definitely the ones thay have the most quads. Is Shoma seriously considering adding the 4Lz to his programs?
Bring it on Olympic season

xeyra said:

They'd both be needing the 4A for that.

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Haha, I'm only counting jumps that are definitely physically possible...

xibsuarz said:

Shoma is also missing the 4S, unless I missed it sometime in the off season

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My bad, had forgotten shoma has no quad sal. I think I rather see him with a sal rather than a Lutz (that edge problem )

And I think he'd rather have the points that even a flutz will give him, especially if he can hit a flutz more reliably than a sal.

I'd like to see him go for 4S in general, as his edge jumps are lovely - look at how quickly he stabilized his 4L, and the consistency of his axels...

Shoma advertising that he can jump a quad lutz just makes my head blow :dev2:

his quad technique in toe jumps is purely relying on pre-rotation, making only a little more than 3 rotations in the air! That's the reason why it's absolutely impossible for him to acquire a quad lutz in this short amount of time, because a real lutz makes pre-rotation impossible as it's counter-rotated. It's just impossible. He can't jump a 4 toe without pre-rotating. It's just impossible that he can jump a quad lutz without pre-rotation!

So what does he do? He jumps the quad flutz! because the flutz has an inside edge, it allows him to pre-rotate at as much as he wants, making it look like he's jumping a quad lutzhwell:

And I'll just leave an educated guess about his season strategy: he'll jump the quad flutz during practices and senior B's to impress the judges but he won't include it in his programs during Grand Prix or 4cc, because he doesn't want it to get scrutinized and called on a wrong edge. His pre-rotation is being ignored anyways so that's not something troubling at all.

Then at Japanese Nationals and GPF (in his hometown) he'll include the 4 flutz and of course it won't get an edge call there and he'll get a huge image push.

Then at the Olympics he'll suddenly include the 4 flutz, too. But because international judges haven't had time to consistently call his flutz plus it just adds to the excitement of the Olympic moment, so that it'll get a pass there too. Resulting in a really high BV and score for him at the Olympics.

During the season he'll say as often as possible, that he used the off-season to correct his lutz edge, making judges believe in the tiny possibility of him managing a quad lutz. (which in fact he didn't as we can clearly see in that video even from that distance).

When I first head him talking about adding the quad flutz I already knew that this would be his strategy (flutzing it, so he can pre-rotate it), but I was willing to keep quiet and give him the benefit of the doubt, that he may really have been working on his edge, but after seeing this video it's just so clear that he never did. And OF COURSE he didn't! Why correct a technique BEFORE the Olympics that has worked well enough until now and will enable him to jump a quad flutz?


Now people will probably say, that I'm ust a petty Boyang fan who doesn't like shoma in the first place, but guess what, I even like Shoma's skating. I've watched his worlds performances multiples times because I loved them so much. But I was always against UR and flutzing and even though the ladies discipline is now a lost case, men's flutz were called more accurately.

A quad that only has 3 revolutions in the air is a triple and should not get the points for a quad. And a quad that only 3 revolutions in the air because it has so much pre-rotation that the skater it forced to jump from the wrong edge (inside instead of outside) should get even lesser points than a triple.

So next, what will come first?
Boyang 4Flip or Nathan 4Loop ?
come on, sQuads don't let me down

I wanna see a Boyang 4f, definitely, please Santa?

I'm impressed by many aspects of Shoma's skating, including his skating skills, great knee bend, and his emotional intensity when he performs. Turandot repeat? Sign me up. I LOVE Turandot, and I think he'll do the music more justice now that he's older.

I've also been repeatedly impressed that someone with such poor jump technique can acquire so many difficult jumps and earn full points on them, in spite of their sketchy take-offs and landings. :noshake:

Shoma is a master of pre-rotation and turning toe jumps into edge jumps.

Shoma's triple flutz
https://instagram.com/p/BT8y3QOjebU/

Shoma's full turn prerotated 3Lo
https://instagram.com/p/BXzwEv6Dpqm/

Great a quad flutz now! I very much doubt the judges will call out his wrong edge if it happens looking back at all the edge calls missed over the past season. It would be shame if he receives the same or even bigger GOE compared to the real proper quad lutzers. Let's hope all the judges visit an optician before the start of the season!

Never mind prerotation... does anyone else think this was a 4Lze<< or is it just me

icybear said:

Great a quad flutz now! I very much doubt the judges will call out his wrong edge if it happens looking back at all the edge calls missed over the past season. It would be shame if he receives the same or even bigger GOE compared to the real proper quad lutzers. Let's hope all the judges visit an optician before the start of the season!

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He got a call on his Lutz when "it mattered the most"- at World Team Trophy. Just look into the protocols and that glorious Lze- finally it gets it's edge "appreciation"!

Can we wait to complain until after he puts it in his program, flutzes, and not get called .. It's just practice for now and I am sure he is well aware of his technical issues. As long as he doesn't hurt himself practicing it I don see why he can't.

Danibellerika said:

And I think he'd rather have the points that even a flutz will give him, especially if he can hit a flutz more reliably than a sal.

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Yeah, exactly... who cares if he gets a call or not, even a quad flutz is 9.5 points. Even with an edge call, which he's getting fewer of - which tells me he's improving the edge quality of his lutz - a clean one would earn him about 8 points.

He should totally go for it. Also, if he added the 4S (which he's landed in practice before), he would be the first guy to land 5 different types of quads in a program.

Not to mention, it would further infuriate his haters, which is always a nice little bonus.

largeman said:

Never mind prerotation... does anyone else think this was a 4Lze<< or is it just me

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Let's be honest. You (and, most definitely, other folks) were thinking that before you even watched the clip.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Let's be honest. You (and, most definitely, other folks) were thinking that before you even watched the clip.

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Pretty harsh statement, isn't it?

What do you think then? Lutz edge okay? Rotation okay?