2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Ladies SP

andromache said:

2. Have any of the usual suspects who critique Evgenia's miming complained about Carolina's? There was some definite miming in the beginning of that program. (That said, it was beautiful miming. Maybe in a few years Evgenia will mime as beautifully. Those limbs. )

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Probably Evgenia has taken notes from Carolina because she was already miming in 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LHuzP4c2po#t=1m15s

:rofl2:

Sabrina said:

You should not compare scores between juniors and seniors. Junior level have shorter programs, thus, lower scores as they mis at least one element.

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You're thinking the FS which has 11 elements in Junior and 12 in Senior... in the SP, both Juniors and Seniors have 7 elements.

[email protected] said:

As for pcs, Zagitova had 29.17 at JWC, Wakaba had 29.03 at WC. There is an expected bump for getting senior. What kind of bump did Wakaba enjoy to get to 33 now? All three leaders have inflated pcs - there is absolutey no need to single out Zagitova.

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She skated clean for one, whereas Zagitova was not clean, and behind her music due to the fall (ended after the music).

Wakaba's PB was 32.05 since the WTT trophy so it went up "only" a point (of course, even at WTT it was too high, IMO). I did think Higuchi had great energy and confidence but would have had it a bit lower. Zagitova seemed like she was "working" through the program whereas Higuchi seemed like she was performing and expressing. Zagitova did win out in the transitions department for me and was underscored there, but her PE and IN were generous given the error and getting behind the music.

Also, I didn't single out any one -- I said "the top 3 skaters' PCS here were all crazy high". If you want to get picky, I'd say Zagitova's was the most egregious. Kostner's should have definitely been lower, but she still "skated clean" (just no 3-3). Higuchi obviously skated clean, and was a contender going in, so she would score well. Zagitova FELL -- and her PCS was 2 points higher than her personal best, and the program was rather unrefined and timing was off at the end... people complain about Medvedeva getting crazy PCS (and yes, she does), but at least when she gets a PB it's from a clean skate. Zagitova definitely got the WJC bonus on her PCS, but it was not merited. She is super fortunate to have gotten 71 for that (and Higuchi 74 and Kostner 71).

I also looked back at the jumps of the top gals in slow-motion, Wakaba's 3T looks UR/borderline so I can see her getting gifted, but Alina's 3L on her 3Z looked more UR to me (and even her 3F wasn't for certain sufficiently rotated). All of that was called clean, which leads me to think that the tech specialist was being generous when it came to the top skaters' jumps. Certainly didn't hold back going down the protocol, though. I suppose that does reflect the judges giving PCS (I mean, Wakaba getting 9.25 from one judge for TR is ridiculous... as ridiculous as is Zagitova getting 7.25 from one judge, when she clearly had the most transitions - although someone made a good point about Kostner's body movement transitions).

Bradie: Like the detailing around the neck of her dress. Very pretty and unique. Honestly an SP she should be very, very proud of. It's a little generic, but I think she skated it very well. Level 4s on everything but steps. By far the best performance I've ever seen from Bradie. Seeing her repeat this in the LP would be great.

Amber: Amber Glenn is forever and always my favorite 2nd (or maybe 3rd) tier American lady. So much spark. This costume does nothing for her - too heavy, doesn't fit her overall vibe. Way to pop the axel and kill me on the inside. All my faves are headcases. How much better is life when all your faves aren't headcases? The tano 3-3 was effortless. I LOVE this program. It's sexy! She has a lot of fun with it. She's a baby Gracie and this is the kind of program people always wished Gracie would have, isn't it? And the Rippon lutz! The 1A killed her, but she also missed quite a few levels on things. Still. AHHHHHH she's such a gem! This program is great!

PS what is up with this garbage camera work??? Also, is it just me or can we hear NOTHING coming from the rink? Like the music isn't playing in the arena so much as it sounds edited in over top of whatever sounds were coming from the arena, if that makes sense? Most skating videos don't sound like this?

Alina: Too much white swan in the costume! Shades of Sasha's Swan Lake costume (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSX_OZ_ppig). I really want a darker, fiercer swan from Alina, especially since I think that vibe fits her program better. I LOVE Alina's opening pose. I really do. Up close, as opposed to at test skates, I see that the first half of this program is VERY well choreographed. The movements fit the music wonderfully. And then after the step sequence it looks like she can barely keep up with the music. Even with the gorgeous jumping passes and without the botched 2A, the second half of the program does look like a hot mess. It's unfortunate because I adored the first half. That said, I expect her to win the LP and win overall. She's comfortable with that program.

Liza: Love the SP dress, love that she's wearing her hair down. Her facial features skew older, so a more youthful dress and hairstyle make her way more fresh and cute! Expected a clean SP after seeing how good she looked at the test skates. Anyway, it's a Liza program in all the best and worst ways, the bent, waving arms, the expressive face, some shoulder shimmies, etc. It's a FUN as heck program and it's very Liza. There's no real moments of elegance or balletic beauty, but hey, that's not Liza. Aesthetically, her skating is and will always be a question mark.

But the choreography is fun and at times goes very well with the music, and she interprets it with feeling. Her lack of transitions really doesn't bother me - it's alllllll the two-foot skating that grinds my gears. At least use your edges! But god, the take-offs on her jumps are gorgeous even when the landings aren't. But geez, Liza should NEVER end her program on a sit spin. It's her worst element by far. Bad impression to leave. End on a 2A.

Wakaba: Beautiful costume in color and detailing. Love everything about it. But this program....the elements are spot on, and the choreography goes fine with the music. She's adequate at performing/interpreting. I just think I don't like Don Quixote. I love the classical warhorses of figure skating, but Don Quixote has always seemed bland. Upbeat blandness. Where's the emotion and the drama? Or even something just beautiful sounding? Just a little too Looney Tunes for me. And then the ending of the program is SOOOOO OTT....I've always thought of Wakaba as a more series, introverted performer, so I like seeing how successful she is at portraying the OTT happiness, and she's very charming and engaging, but it's also too cheesy for me. Really, I did not expect this tacky of a program from Wakaba. I guess Don Quixote just ruins it for me.

That said, all my critiques are very subjective. Objectively, she has great skating skills, flawless elements, and the choreography and interpretation fit the music (I just don't like it). That said, I'm still excited for her LP.

Carolina: God bless her. Best dressed 2017. Classy, elegant, mature, sexy. I love emo French music! Watching her mime and her facial expressions - this program feels like something we'd see Evgenia skate in a few years. That said, any position Carolina hits is held, flows perfectly, and never looks less than 100% flawless. Evgenia moves so much you never get the chance to enjoy the beauty of a single movement. It's the experience factor. She knows how to move.

She's really lost her edge on skating skills though. Was not impressed like I should be by Carolina in that regard. And the emotional slumping in the middle felt unnecessary. Carolina doesn't need to force the drama like that. BUT OMG THE STEP SEQUENCE. It's better than any single element done by anyone else last season. I'm not even a Carolina uber!!! It's just a work of art from start to finish. In all honesty though, this program is a C+ with an A++++ step sequence. But hey, she's 30.

Overall, if I say that my favorite performance was Amber's, it's the truth, but it also makes me sounds insane. :confused2:

andromache said:

Carolina: God bless her. Best dressed 2017. Classy, elegant, mature, sexy. I love emo French music! Watching her mime and her facial expressions - this program feels like something we'd see Evgenia skate in a few years. That said, any position Carolina hits is held, flows perfectly, and never looks less than 100% flawless. Evgenia moves so much you never get the chance to enjoy the beauty of a single movement. It's the experience factor. She knows how to move.

She's really lost her edge on skating skills though. Was not impressed like I should be by Carolina in that regard. And the emotional slumping in the middle felt unnecessary. Carolina doesn't need to force the drama like that. BUT OMG THE STEP SEQUENCE. It's better than any single element done by anyone else last season. I'm not even a Carolina uber!!! It's just a work of art from start to finish. In all honesty though, this program is a C+ with an A++++ step sequence. But hey, she's 30.

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100% agree. Also, that layback spin is a perfect example of how you don't need a Biellmann -- her arm positions are TO. DIE. FOR. Like, she's still interpreting while spinning, and does something different in each variation. Always a pleasure to watch. (But still scored too high. )

I also agree with you on the double standard of the pantomiming in Evgenia vs. Kostner. I guess because Evgenia's still a teen, she is de facto pantomiming whereas Kostner is putatively an "artistic" skater and is simply expressing herself intensely.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

100% agree. Also, that layback spin is a perfect example of how you don't need a Biellmann -- her arm positions are TO. DIE. FOR. Like, she's still interpreting while spinning, and does something different in each variation. Always a pleasure to watch. (But still scored too high. )

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Honestly I think everyone was overscored here. Men, too. Time to get ready for some Olympicflation. Seriously, why do we need these scores at Lombardia though? It's an early Senior B. Give people some room to grow, judges.

Sabrina said:

i watched a few girls, among them Alina and Carolina. In my book there is no way Caro can be placed ahead Alina even with that 2A fluke. Caro did 3F2T vs Alina 3Lz3L, then single jumps were Loop vs Tano Flip. 2A are the first element that favour Caro. Transitions and spins were better in the Black Swan program. I agree Aliina's program is overcrowded. By comparison, Caro's program looks empty. Honestly Alina coaches should rethink this rollercoaster madness program. I love the black Swan theme, but some moderation is needed.

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I agree that the program needs editing. That axel entry is fabulous though and I hope she keeps it -- we all know that she can do that (she wouldn't compete it if she couldn't do it), and as you said it was probably a fluke.

But again - Alina FELL. On the easiest element (even with the hard entry). She even got -2's on it from the more generous judges. She should be behind Caro IMO.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I agree that the program needs editing. That axel entry is fabulous though and I hope she keeps it -- we all know that she can do that (she wouldn't compete it if she couldn't do it), and as you said it was probably a fluke.

But again - Alina FELL. On the easiest element (even with the hard entry). She even got -2's on it from the more generous judges. She should be behind Caro IMO.

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She fell so what? Caro fell in Saitamo and in addition to that did 3 pops and still received higher pcs than winning Mao. Well, a bad example. We all know it was a scandal.

But I will insist on the worlds argument - they were the most serious competitions last season. The worlds is not a show with ridiculous scores to make Japan win which WTT is. Both Alina and Wakaba were clean in the worlds - both got 29. Now Alina has +2 with a fall but with a senior bump and Wakaba has +4 - with just a bump.

I understand we differ on that and won't change the views so that I see no point to continue. Better see what FS will bring.

Ummph... finally caught up with everything.

If it hasn't been said already, the scorings are sooo outrageous and out of control now. Come on peeps, it has only been 4 years ago when Yuna's flawless Kiss of the Vampire won the SP at worlds with 69+ with a 3lz3t. Has the standard really improved that much?!!! Why are we back to Sochi level scoring? Especially Alina some how had nabbed 2 seasons Julia's PCS in a debut with an underdeveloped juniorish program with massive mistake.

Nobody deserves over 68 come on!!

Random thoughts

Wakababy... love her to bits but that program was totally Russian and not in a good way. Shimmi, over the top, bombastic music, totally Lenova / Tarasova. I think she is better than this program. Ostentious but rather meaningless at the end of the day. Don Quixote, really? Missed a few music cues early half but recuperate later. I did enjoy the slower sections when she try to interpret. Some choreograph phrases can be expressed better. Tech looking strong this early in the season. I suppose she is making it easier for the European judges who like that sort of thing big exaggerated expressions. 74+ madness!! Why she looks puzzled at the Kiss and Cry, she couldn't believe it herself?

Alina... I liked her abstract costume for swan lake. She certainly looks the part with a nice set up, and then her music start and what the heck was that butchered music edit particularly the 2nd phrasing? Chalk and Cheese. Who edited this monstrosity? I read she is supposed to have a costume change, but this does not seem the case. The performance was uneven, besides the obvious backload, some parts seem rush rush rush to get transition score or rather some acrobatic exercise than any swan lake, skate on shallow edges, and then it went pear-shaped after the botched 2A, low energy, fall behind the music. It kind of reminded me of some of young Julia's programs in how much they are trying to cram in, taking advantage of youth's flexibility and hunger. Yet almost 72 already with a botched 2A in a SP lol.... were they planning to mark her 75+? Super generous GOEs. At the end of the day, it was a junior-ish underdeveloped Swanlake. Any sympathy I had for her immediately died when the score came out. lol ISU judges what are you doing to me!!!

Carolina... welcome back! However, it looks like she had been inspired to outdo Evegenia in the opening miming dramarama, like 'let me show you how it is done honey!! Watch.' Then proceed to outdo her own 2013 Transsylvanian facialography.... At least the rest of her skate was the class of the field, who bothered to acknowledge the music with emotional resonance, maturity, and real feel to expressed them on ice. Seasoned pro she is. Sensational among this lot even without a 3/3. PCS obviously over marked but hey we are in Italy/Europe and she is the Queen here and judges want to give her a great welcome back hug.

Liza.... sigh.. okay enough said.

[email protected] said:

She fell so what? Caro fell in Saitamo and in addition to that did 3 pops and still received higher pcs than winning Mao. Well, a bad example. We all know it was a scandal.

But I will insist on the worlds argument - they were the most serious competitions last season. The worlds is not a show with ridiculous scores to make Japan win which WTT is. Both Alina and Wakaba were clean in the worlds - both got 29. Now Alina has +2 with a fall but with a senior bump and Wakaba has +4 - with just a bump.

I understand we differ on that and won't change the views so that I see no point to continue. Better see what FS will bring.

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Your argument has nothing to do with what is being presented on the ice. You mention Alina's fall, but that's it. You ignore that she was behind the music, for example.

I think Alina's program has more potential than Wakaba's. I frankly dislike Wakaba's program. It's very cheesy and it made me realize I just don't like Don Quixote (unfortunately for Alina's LP lol, but at least it wasn't Alina's LP that MADE ME REALIZE I DISLIKED CERTAIN MUSIC. Sorry Wakaba). But anyway, Wakaba was much more involved in her performance, the choreography matched with the music, and every single element was just about flawless. Alina wasn't involved with her performance because she was struggling to keep up. In this case, Wakaba's senior experience gave her an edge, which resulted in additional PCS.

Carolina in Saitama has literally nothing to do with this competition.

(But yeah, Carolina was overscored. Everyone was overscored, but Carolina especially. They're in Italy. What do you expect? Alina would probably be close to tied for first if this competition was in Russia. Luckily this is the SP of a senior B and not life or death. No one is being cheated her.)

When will be the LP? Is the official results posted somewhere? I didn't find the schedule or the results on ISU website.

The entry to Alina's 2A is insanity. I'm not sure it's worth the risk to keep that entry. Would not be surprised if it's scrapped soon.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

But again - Alina FELL. On the easiest element (even with the hard entry). She even got -2's on it from the more generous judges. She should be behind Caro IMO.

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2A with all the steps before that Alina did is the hardest element.

euroskate said:

zagitova was frightened at the beginning and cautious trough her skate.

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She is always frightrned, that she will scolded if she did a mistake. It is a Tutberidze group style. Remember recently Panenkova crying after winning in the JGP event, but fell in FS, but she won. And he coach was so rigid to her. Tutberidze's girl has no right to mistake.

But can we talk more about Laurine please?

koatcue said:

Seems harsh, given her 3lz/3loop

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She skated like a junior, attempting to be in the Big Leagues, but looked like a junior to me. Slow, off the music, full of fear and doubt, unsteady and not understanding or into her music, a dress that, well...we hear she's getting a new one, enough said. Triples alone, are not enough.

Osmond4gold said:

She skated like a junior, attempting to be in the Big Leagues, but looked like a junior to me. Slow, off the music, full of fear and doubt, unsteady and not understanding or into her music, a dress that, well...we hear she's getting a new one, enough said. Triples alone, are not enough.

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Are you just trying to invite criticism of Kaetlyn? You know the second she falls you are stirring up a bunch of drama that's going to follow back to Kaetlyn and all of her flaws too. You even went after the dress...#harsh

Osmond4gold said:

She skated like a junior, attempting to be in the Big Leagues, but looked like a junior to me. Slow, off the music, full of fear and doubt, unsteady and not understanding or into her music, a dress that, well...we hear she's getting a new one, enough said. Triples alone, are not enough.

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I have to respectfully disagree. That seems harsh to me. At least her great spins deserve credit!

kevinVchicago said:

But can we talk more about Laurine please?

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Jason Brown snagged a photo with her.
https://instagram.com/p/BY6u5qKgWG1/

Your turn to find a photo of her.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Jason Brown snagged a photo with her.
https://instagram.com/p/BY6u5qKgWG1/

Your turn to find a photo of her.

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Oh thank you! That's so sweet