2014 Cup of China Ladies Short Program 11/07

[WeakAnkles]

Liza' s costume is distracting to me. Looks like she forgot to take off her makeup "robe". Ur's seem to be the plague of the American ladies this year: five among the 3 in the short program here.

We agreed last week that the fabulous Ms T is modeling a number from the Liz Taylor Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf ® line. (Hic)
Ooo la la! Tres chic!

 

[yyyskate]

"her SP is a breath of fresh air compared to warhorses like Bollero, POTO or Tchaikovsy's music. I believe she won't change her SP costume no matter how much people hate it. "
actually, her SP and this kinda music (Radio's SP last season) is the easiest to skate to. it is very rhythmic, pumps people up, easy to the ear and "fresh", Warhorse music are a lot harder if you wanna skate to it and interpret it well.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

"her SP is a breath of fresh air compared to warhorses like Bollero, POTO or Tchaikovsy's music. I believe she won't change her SP costume no matter how much people hate it. "
actually, her SP and this kinda music (Radio's SP last season) is the easiest to skate to. it is very rhythmic, pumps people up, easy to the ear and "fresh", Warhorse music are a lot harder if you wanna skate to it and interpret it well.

How exactly do you quantify which is harder? I think this music would be very difficult for some skaters to interpret and keep interesting. Just my opinion but I think it goes both ways.

 

[thoakun]

I'll leave the analysis of the difficulty of programs to the experts. Julia's music didn't pump me and I'm hardly impressed with the music alone. If you ask any choreographer, he will believe that his choreography is no piece of cake and can provide you with ample evidences to prove the intricacy of his creative work. If you are fond of a certain skater, you're bound to think that what she does it the most difficult, you're more likely to see the good qualities in her program and your reasoning will follow that direction subconsciously. The same applies when you're biased against a skater. All I can see is that the girl hit every element and in SP, music choice is mostly just a backdrop for what the skater brings on the table. No one forces skaters to choose war-horse music. Everyone is after points. If skaters think they can get a better score with the new, fresh music to pump the judges up, why don't they go for it?

 

[Ophelia]

Yulia skated with the same package from the last season, the innocent child. Even though I respect her determination, energy, and focus, she looked like doing a physical exercise than figure skating in my honest opinion. She is technically, physically SUPERIOR!! But her movement is hard to call a dancing. She has a more of a gymnast's approach to a skating. She stretches her legs, lifts her chest, straightens back, moves her limbs fast, but that is it. There is a pausing moment during her stsq. It is such a critical point, but she just treats it as one of many moves. To dance, I think you should not move in one speed. The skater's body is her instrument. She needs to extract and expand as the music goes. I think she is a smart girl and always has a great concept. When I hear her interview, I feel like she's approaching too intelligently, not necessarily artistically/emotionally. But I hope that does not hinder herself from becoming a great skater.

THIS! You nailed it. Lipniskaia indeed has a very gymnastic approach to skating. I feel like when she skates, I'm watching a sequence of distinct moves being put out on display, instead of a program presented as a whole piece; it reminds me of gymnast floor exercises. Didn't she use to be a rythmic gymnast? Hence her extreme flexibility?

I just watched Polina Edmunds SP. Despite her mistakes, I'm impressed by her skating! I like her choreography and she has GREAT artistry. Better than Gracie Gold.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'll leave the analysis of the difficulty of programs to the experts. Julia's music didn't pump me and I'm hardly impressed with the music alone FYI. All I can see is that the girl hit every element and in SP, music choice is mostly just a backdrop for what the skater brings on the table.

I think to play devils advocate here it could be said that music that has clearly defined accents and tempo changes could in fact be argued to be easier to understand and potentially lead to similarly looking programs if two different skaters chose it. Maybe it's not correct but I think it holds some merit of credibility. I guess it comes down to taste and maybe even culture so really it's just unprovable facts. Ad hominem.

 

[yyyskate]

music choice is NOT a backdrop, if you dont treat it like one and really interpret it, every note/phrase/texture/mood of it.
Well, as for "easy music" argument, it is from my personal skating experience. also a few examples, Gracie can interprets her Taylor Swift music well but not her POTO, S/H's SP this season is well received, and they usually skate to that kind before, but their LP is absolutely more challenging, and very very difficult to interpret it well.

 

[satine]

Here she puts it significantly after the halfway mark (almost 2 full minutes into the music). Her music is exactly 2:50, and she jumps into the 2A at 1:54/1:55. Now I'm not a judge but I would also reward skaters who do the jumps well significantly after the halfway mark with good GOE.

But they already receive the 1.1x bonus for being in the second half of the program. Is addiotional +GOE really necessary?

 

[yyyskate]

Yes Polina's program is very intricate and she also has great feel of it. that fall on combo is unfortunate, I think it is a fluke.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

But they already receive the 1.1x bonus for being in the second half of the program. Is addiotional +GOE really necessary?

I don't think they would.

Yulia already had many other positive things that would justify 6 +1s and 3 0s. I just wanted to show everything positive about the jump since people were acting almost like it was a crime that a judge could see reasons to give +GOE to a well-executed jump. Great, maybe not (to other people, anyway, I personally like her 2A) but very well-executed, yes.

 

[Art&Sport]

It makes perfect sense because a) that's a staged performance b) it matches the idea of the program c) it is authentic and it was her OWN choice.
And compare it to Polina (used only as an example, no offence) who skates in a dress that was clearly chosen by her mother or a coach. She just looks uncomfortable in it. There is no way a 16 year old girl can like that dress.

You entitled to your view. Great that Lip is trying to make art of her personal journey. Whether or not what she's doing has any resounding artistic resonance is another thing entirely.

 

[Art&Sport]

So who wants to go under Yulia's Umbrella, brella, brella, hey, hey....

 

[Sandpiper]

Regarding Yulia's 2A I think it was just rougher this time, because of the different layout than the test skate that she performed for the first time(in a competitive-like setting). This one was much smoother and effortlessly integrated into the whole program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YaVfbMwtO0 (3:03)

I do agree about her 2A being not as good in terms of height(?), but the way the she enters and exit, the distance and flow make it seem just as good to me as anyone else's the majority of time. I have no complaints with her getting negligible GOE for it.

...I didn't write that post to dispute Yulia's 2A GOE. I wrote it to defend her triple jumps. I think the judges are well in their rights to give her +1; in fact, I would've complained if they'd given her negative GOE (seriously, negative GOE for something like "small, landing is a bit squeaked out," when falls are only -3 + 1 point deduction?). But I have to admit that Yulia's 2A is not as good as the rest of her jumps.

Of course, this doesn't mean Yulia's 2A is worse than most of her competition. I don't think Gracie's or Anna's, for instance, are any better (if not slightly worse). But there is a big difference between a Yulia 2A and a Liza 2A. Let's take the guidelines Sam has helpfully posted:

To establish the starting GOE Judges must take into consideration the bullets for each element. It is at the discretion of each Judge to decide on the number of bullets for any upgrade, but general recommendations are as follows:
FOR + 1 : 2 bullets FOR + 2 : 4 bullets FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets Singles

Jump
Elements

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

For Yulia, I'd give 1, 2 (though I'm a bit unclear about why these are even separate points? :scratch, and maybe 6 if we stretch a bit. So +1 would be a fair score.

For Liza, I'd give... pretty much every one of these bullet points (8 is very subjective, of course). If the +3 GOE is to exist, I think this is exactly where we should see it. Spiral entry, great height and distance, 'tano, effortlessly landed, with a kick that displays her control on the exit (not to mention fitting the music). I just can't think of what else she could've added.

This doesn't mean I dislike Yulia (love her as well) or that Yulia has a worse axel than all her competitors (she does not). Her 2A is just not amazing... and she doesn't need to be amazing at every single thing she does.

 

[Imagine]

Of course, Yulia is still my favorite. Great program, costume is tbh....questionable. It looks like a nice piece out of an everyday teenage girl wardrobe, but for competition it's a bit lackluster. Whatever though, I don't just watch her for the costumes. Personally, I preferred last year's work of art but I'll take this as just another solid Yulia program.

The surprise for me is actually Polina Edmunds. I'll admit I wasn't much of a fan of her at all. Usually, I liken her to one of those inflatable wavy arm things they get you to buy cars with at dealerships, but here her program was very beautifully put together. She has a very fascinating flow about her (when properly utilized) that makes her as captivating as Yulia with that flexibility. Not to be offensive, but she has a really alien-like beauty. Shame about the errors though. Even being a huge Yulia supporter, I believe she could have easily beat Yulia here if she landed everything perfectly and did everything else with that same energy. Her ability to convey the overall performance is simply superior at this moment (but Yulia has also gone so far in that aspect in a very short time!). I hope her height won't be a problem in the future though, because I finally have a reason to watch her up till the next Olympics.

 

[karne]

Can't the judge see what score they have entered and correct it or is it a one shot deal?

Depends when they notice it. If they notice it before they submit their marks, they can fix it. If they don't...they can't.

 

[Amei]

think Yulia just needs to get more comfortable with the program. The elements are all there, and her jumps (axel aside) are better than people give her credit for. I wonder, perhaps because she skates with determination and doesn't smile much, people think she's not musical? I guess I would've like a program that shows more versatility

Well one thing to remember of Yulia is that she usually skates a senior B competition before her GP events - but this year, due to changing LP, changing boots and illness - she did not. So this first time her programs are on competitive ice. And the first time we saw (at least in my opinion) her short program at the test skates, it was a very roughed in program, like it was a fairly recently put together program.

It will get better with time.

but I don't have an issue with her packaging in general. She does look young, so trying to do a "mature woman program" would just be ridiculous. She plays to her strengths like everyone else.

Agree, and I like that she has a lot to do with her program choices vs. other skaters who get music/costumes handed to them and it subsequently is ill-fitting to them. On the 'look young vs look mature', I feel she is going to be criticized either way. If she did something and her costuming, etc. made her look more mature/older - people would be saying she's trying too much to look older than she actually is or she looks like a little girl playing mommy's things.

I love the pictures that some GS posters have found, where she apparently has a real life similar to this.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Sandpiper, you don't but other people were acting like it was a crime that she got a few +1s. I don't get it.

I can't speak about other people's 2A because to me it always looks so difficult, I mean like they're expending so much effort to jump up and they don't land smoothly, there's a hitch on the landing (usually). Elizaveta's looked really smooth here. But other than a bit more height I don't see anything that different than Yulia's. Also her exit was more difficult, but Yulia had fantastic extension, also demonstrating great control. Do I think Elizaveta's should have had more GOE? Yes, slightly more for the tano which she got. Yulia had 0.36, Elizaveta, 0.93.

Overall jump GOE Yulia 2.76, Elizaveta 3.63.
Spins and Step GOE Yulia 3.58 Elizaveta 2.79 (with one spin level 3 and her FSSp4 spin was lower BV than Yulia's FCSp: she lost a further 0.50 there.)

To sum up Elizaveta had the edge on Jumps, but spins and steps were worth more when both have the same jump content, Lz vs. F with 1.1 bonus. Yulia won because of spins and steps here since their PCS were only 0.61 apart.

 

[Amei]

Depends when they notice it. If they notice it before they submit their marks, they can fix it. If they don't...they can't.

That's really stupid to me... you could have a skater get penalized because judge punches the wrong button. To me they should have something like a 2 minute gap between the time they submit scores and when it becomes 'official'. In a close competition, that could be the difference between final standings.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

That's really stupid to me... you could have a skater get penalized because judge punches the wrong button. To me they should have something like a 2 minute gap between the time they submit scores and when it becomes 'official'. In a close competition, that could be the difference between final standings.

Even a gap of eight points on a component score only resulted in a difference of 0.03 after factoring. I assume if the scores are really close they double-check?

 

[Ophelia]

The surprise for me is actually Polina Edmunds. I'll admit I wasn't much of a fan of her at all. Usually, I liken her to one of those inflatable wavy arm things they get you to buy cars with at dealerships, but here her program was very beautifully put together. She has a very fascinating flow about her (when properly utilized) that makes her as captivating as Yulia with that flexibility. Not to be offensive, but she has a really alien-like beauty. Shame about the errors though. Even being a huge Yulia supporter, I believe she could have easily beat Yulia here if she landed everything perfectly and did everything else with that same energy. Her ability to convey the overall performance is simply superior at this moment (but Yulia has also gone so far in that aspect in a very short time!). I hope her height won't be a problem in the future though, because I finally have a reason to watch her up till the next Olympics.

Polina Edmunds has a similar look as those European high fashion models. I was really surprised by her long-limbed grace and how well she interpreted her tango (or is it flamenco?). She was hitting every nuance of the music with her gestures (those hand flairs!) and she skates with such fire! I definitely think she'll surpass Gracie soon once she gets her tech down.