2014 Rostelecom Cup Ladies Free Skate 11/15

[pitterpatter]

Just saw the results, what on earth happened here?! Off to the videos!

 

[chloepoco]

actually no one is arguing that she should have won.. you're probably the only one who is assuming it.. some are just saying that her PCS = tooooo loooowwww..

Actually, os168 stated that the top 3 were over scored, politicking, federation backing, PCS, blah blah blah. And then brought up So Youn as being held down, etc, so that's why I asked if he/she thought So Youn should have won.

 

[Rinchan]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here even if I have been lurking for a while.
I got into figure ice skating 6 years ago while I was studying abroad in Japan and couldn't get enough of it since then .
I saw almost all the competitions of this grand prix series and I have to say some of them have been quite disappointing, but I see new stars arising and seeing all this young ladies establishing their names in the international arena is pretty exciting !
I was quite impressed by Rika Hongo's performance. She may not be the most elegant and musical skater but she performed with energy and sass... well deserved first place. Anna was pretty disappoing but everyone can have a bad day.... curious about how she will skate in the gp final. Alaine was a complete surprise... love it when dark horses come out of nothing and become a threat to the podium
I have to say I have a soft spot for So Youn Park. I have been following her for the past 3 years since her junior grand prix debut and she has grown so so much. I felt that she was underscored in PCS... I thought her overall presentation in the FS was mu h better than in SA... but well, complaining doesn't change things... hope she will have other great skates. By the way, the Korean commentators mentioned that her left foot is injured, I think that may have had an influence over her performance. I was really heartbroken when she ended her fs and was about to cry. Don't cry So Youn, you have done a good job and you will do better next time

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, Rinchan. Thanks for joining us. Post often, post long! :yes:

 

[Rinchan]

Thank you Mathman

 

[Miss Ice]

I don't deny Russian coaches are good at their job, including Tat AND Morozov, but it doesn't fix everything. The skater needs to deliver, and nothing is black and white.

Frank Carroll is one of America's greatest coaches of all time, but he couldn't help someone as talented as Mirai and Gracie, but they certainly benefitted a great deal from better internationally standing because of him and his expertise, at least within their own federations. Look at what his complaints about the judging at Sochi did and how that helped to boost Gracie's PCS between Team event to Individual event. Look at what his complaints about Liza and her bat out of hell jumps did few years ago and how it affect her PCS for years! So yes politicks matters, personal relationship matters. Otherwise how can you explain the scoring we saw? Please do?

Frank Carroll might have done something good with Michelle, but I suspect that was because Michelle as a skater and person was just incredible. Why does he get all the hype? :think: He reminds me of an American Mishin, lol, and I don't think Mishin has all the hype just cause he is a good coach, mostly cause he was lucky enough to get incredible athletes...

Can't say anything about Morozov, but Tatiana has been consistently snatching skaters after they have become accomplished and well-trained, and then taking all the credit.

Shame about the low PCS for the first group though. I think that really affected So Youn, she had the most beautiful LP for me.

 

[Mathman]

Look at what [Frank Carroll's] complaints about the judging at Sochi did and how that helped to boost Gracie's PCS between Team event to Individual event. Look at what his complaints about Liza and her bat out of hell jumps did few years ago and how it affect her PCS for years! So yes politicks matters, personal relationship matters. Otherwise how can you explain the scoring we saw? Please do?

I do not understand figure skating "politics" at all. What do the international judges care what Frank Carroll complains about or doesn't complain about?

 

[Miss Ice]

I do not understand figure skating "politics" at all. What do the international judges care what Frank Carroll complains about or doesn't complain about?

My suspicion is that it reflects the reputation of the ISU. If famous coaches are complaining, then ISU is doing something wrong. :think:

 

[peg]

My suspicion is that it reflects the reputation of the ISU. If famous coaches are complaining, then ISU is doing something wrong. :think:

Whereas if we complain, nobody cares

 

[thoakun]

OK, I am back at home now. Watched everything live. The ladies' event was the weakest. Rika Hongo was a highlight. But not a mind blowing highlight. Very good speed, very confident jumps. But her posture is sort of hmm not upright. And choreography needs some work. Still a well-deserved win.

Anna could not sustain the pressure. I was with my wife and we asked each other why she was doing so many triples during the warm-up: many more than anybody else. She landed all of them and she kept jumping. Then we she started the program the very first combo was flopped. Still she was as fast as Rika - they were much faster than everybody else. And she related to her firebird image quite well. Whatever the points should be, her second place is well deserved.

Same as the well-deserved third place of Chartrand. She was quite fast as well and quite confident. There were a couple of visible mistakes but overall quite a good impression.

Which brings us to Mirai and So Yun as all the others are not worth analyzing. Mirai....I am not excited by her skating either on TV or live. But if it were not for a double-footed flip and a shaky axel her skating was solid. All these URs are not visible live. So Yun. As I already said we liked her stylish and delicate skating. But she is truly slower than Anna, Rika, and Alaine, and she still fights with a 3Lo. For the time being, I think she is not the one to compete for podiums - she is the one to watch. May be next year will be different - still some time before 2018.

Thanks for the report, Samkrut. It's always interesting to read reports by people watching the event live, as I feel that their opinions seem to be more in line with the scores (just a moot point). I don't have any particular favorites in this event but I think the placement was right. I couldn't find Rika's performances at Asian Trophy to compare but she has improved on basic skating, footwork and musical interpretation since last season. Rika was prepared when the opportunity came so she won fair and square. I love Mirai but she didn't convince me in this FS. So Youn is a sentimental favorite for everyone, including myself but I think she didn't do enough to get on the podium. She seems to be a late bloomer and I'll keep rooting for her.

 

[Skater Boy]

Has anyone one gone back to anaylze Mirai's 2008 nationals win and her 4th at the 2010 olympics? Was she UR'ing then? Has she had this problem all her career? What happened to the emotion she had in her long at the olympics? That was a great program.

I think her body type has changed a lot since 2010 and that could be part of the problem and maybe there was or is more pressure as she was one of the favourites. For all we know she might still have that joy about skating but she doesn't not communicate it as well or it does not translate well now on the ice.

 

[Mao88]

LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Rika HONGO (JPN) - 178.00 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
2. Anna POGORILAYA (RUS) - 173.43 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
3. Alaine CHARTRAND (CAN) - 172.00 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
4. Mirai NAGASU (USA) - 165.88 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
5. So Youn PARK (KOR) - 163.24 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
6. Miyabi OBA (JPN) - 154.57 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
7. Maria STAVITSKAIA (RUS) - 153.49 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
8. Ashley CAIN (USA) - 150.90 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
9. Angela WANG (USA) - 150.75 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
10. Maria ARTEMIEVA (RUS) - 144.72 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
11. Eliska BREZINOVA (CZE) - 134.04 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
WD Joshi HELGESSON (SWE)

 

[slider11]

mmmhhh.. not sure having Mirai water down her FD is helpful. I would suggest that she keep the content but really look to optimize the artistry with more speed and passion. She was certainly rewarded in the Short Program for her sequence and spins. So build on that in the Free and put forward your very best in those areas. Ultimately, it would be great if she could get a little higher and a little more complete with the jumps. I think they are improving but to the scrutiny of a judge not enough. Frankly I don't see why Anna got the technical and artistic marks she did when she had so many errors. But that's over so all she can do is look to improve. I think Tom Z is the perfect coach for her. He is skilled and nurturing. If she can use the next 2 months to get stronger and crank up the artistry we may see something special at US Nationals.

 

[b-man]

FS, negative GOE's out of 12 elements:

Hongo- 3 elements negative GOE
Pogo- 5 elements negative GOE
Chartrand- 6 elements negative GOE
Park- 2 elements negaetive GOE
Oba- 2 elements negative GOE
Nagasu- 5 elements negative GOE

If I am not mistaken, Hongo was a replacement skater. I can't remember a replacement skater winning a GP before.

 

[Miss Ice]

I don't understand. How can this program get only a few points higher than Lipnitskaya's hot mess LP at CoC where she only landed two triples? The only real mistake So Youn made was the stepout from the loop, and had a 2A-3T in the second half of the program. I don't understand this judging.

 

[satine]

Victory Ceremony
tomorrow 2 p.m. Moscow time (11 a.m. GMT).

So this happened about 8 hours ago? Are there pictures?

 

[satine]

I don't understand. How can this program get only a few points higher than Lipnitskaya's hot mess LP at CoC where she only landed two triples? The only real mistake So Youn made was the stepout from the loop, and had a 2A-3T in the second half of the program. I don't understand this judging.

Well here's a breakdown of the scoresheet for you. I can't answer 'why' exactly they were scored this way (because I disagree with the scores & am not one of the judges), but there is the 'how':

For TES SoYoun's BV was 54.16 vs. Julia's 40.87. SoYoun has a 13.29 lead over Julia at this point.
SoYoun had 2 <, while Julia had 1 <<.
SoYoun's total GOE was +2.41, while Julia's GOE was +3.43. When you add their BV+GOE their TES scores become 56.57 vs. 44.30. SoYoun now had a 12.27 point lead on Julia.

Their individual scores for the 5 program components look like this, SoYoun's first, then Julia's:
Skating Skills--- 6.71 vs. 7.89 (1.18 dif)
Transistions---- 6.25 vs. 7.57 (1.32 dif)
Performance---- 6.75 vs. 7.57 (0.82 dif)
Choreography-- 6.57 vs. 7.93 (1.36 dif)
Interpretation-- 6.82 vs. 7.61 (0.79 dif)
SoYoun got 52.96 while Julia got 61.71 in total PCS.
Julia has a 8.75 point lead on SoYoun here.

Final score- 109.53 for SoYoun, 104.01 for Julia.

Hope I got all the numbers right

eta: Also Julia got a -2 deduction for her two falls..

 

[pororocheburashka]

So this happened about 8 hours ago? Are there pictures?

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPhHiKGm-_8

 

[satine]

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPhHiKGm-_8

Thank you!

 

[[email protected]]

I don't understand. How can this program get only a few points higher than Lipnitskaya's hot mess LP at CoC where she only landed two triples? The only real mistake So Youn made was the stepout from the loop, and had a 2A-3T in the second half of the program. I don't understand this judging.

So Yun Park is not in the leaugue of Yulia yet. So Yun never had a program like SL which moved thousands of people not only in Russia. She does not have 3Lz-3T, she struggles with SP, she cannot come up with a clean LP this season. She cannot make it happen. And there are no evil Russians behind that. She could have - she just had to be clean (there is speed issue but let's forget about it now). And she could have grown her points like some others did. The examples are obvious - Misha Ge and Rika Hongo. Until this season he was just a funny overexpressive guy who was 17th in Sochi and 27th in Saitama. The trick is easy - work hard and deliver. He delivered 4 expressive clean programs in a roll. Then he moved his best more than 10 points in China and another 17 points in Moscow. Now he is one of the top guys with pcs combined similar to Jason's. So Yun does not have the luxury to be not clean. She has to earn the reputation. She just cannot yet - may be next season.