2015 Europeans Ladies Short Program Jan 29

[silverlake22]

After the short program for me 1. Liza 2. Anna 3. Lena... I think Lena's jumps was not her best in her SP today....I feel sorry for Anna... She has a good quality of jumps but today her score was too low compare to Liza and Lena.

The score could have been higher if she had gotten level 4 on all her spins. It wouldn't be enough to put her in 2nd but it could have gotten her to 67 or 68. Anna needs work but I'm hoping her time in the sun will come. All the Russian ladies did so well today that none of them should feel disappointed. Anna skates first in the final group for the FS, so she can put the pressure on the other girls but will also need to really hit to get the big marks. I never know which skaters would prefer - skating early in the group or at the end? I suppose most would choose the middle of the group but I think there are pros and cons to going early and late.

 

[Alba]

I think Liza has better basic skating skills.

In terms of speed and ice coverage though Lena is much better than Lisa.

 

[Sandpiper]

Wow, this thread has deteriorated into "Americans are fat" "Russians have no artistry" "Liza is fatter than Ashley"?? :disapp:

I think Liza has +3 worthy jumps, Anna +2, and Lena +1 or 0. But Lena always seems to get high GOE on her jumps regardless.

I think this sums it up well. I think Anna's 3Lz-3T was +2 worthy today, whereas Lena's was a 0 (usually a 1 when she doesn't struggle on the landing).

(To be fair, I think Anna--and to a lesser extent, Liza--do get overcooked a bit on spin GOE. But spin GOE matters less than jump GOE, and Elena did get straight +3s for her layback, which Liza hasn't come close to pulling on any of her jumps. So the balance still tilts in Elena's favour.)

 

[Watermelondrea]

It amazes me that Elena has the ugliest jumps yet gets the highest score. It amazes me that Anna can be so stunning to look at yet be so unpolished. It amazes me that Liza can have the highest PCS yet have the worst choreography. Am I the only one wondering why Anna's score was so low??

 

[Watermelondrea]

Why are people calling these skaters fat? They are fitter than any of us will ever be, deal with it! They are elite athletes so pay your respects. They work day in and day out and the best you come up with is "they're fat?" What has this community come to?!

 

[Watermelondrea]

Agreed. Now, we really need to write this story. And yes, Maria's the sane one. Menshov's orchestrating the plot and Leonova....

What's this about cursing?? What happened?

 

[MiRé]

Liza

 

[Sandpiper]

What's this about cursing?? What happened?

The "Menshov voodoo doll" joke actually started in the 2012-13 season (?), when Kovtun (fifth place at Nationals) was selected to Europeans/Worlds ahead of Menshov (third place). Kovtun consequently bombed Worlds, and the joke is that Menshov cursed him.

Now Menshov finishes fourth and is just off the European team. And all the European men proceed to skate subpar. So I guess the joke is that he (and Artemieva/Leonova) are cursing the ones who got to go while they stayed home.

...I think that's what's going on. Can't really be sure, because I didn't participate in the conversation and can't follow all of it.

 

[Lipea]

Yes, the original comment was rather myopic, given the long line of US ladies champions and the short one of Russians. Irina is the only true Russian ladies champion thus far in the history of the sport. Maybe Elena or one of the other Russian phenoms will pass her but they have a long way to go.

You guys seem to understand my opinion with your personal perspective and turn my words upside down. I will try to be more clear.

My original point was that it does not make sense to say that if Anna was born in US or Canada she would somehow be better. It just does not make sense. If Anna would be born in US or Canada she would not be Anna as she is. My point here also that there is a lot of talk and admiration of individual talents, whereas what is going on now in Russian ladies is not just a success of the individuals but of the whole system. The system that does have certain minuses too, but that would be a separate topic to talk about.

Regarding why it is just now when Russian ladies appear I have an answer you might never understand because one had to see 90s in former USSR countries to understand. In the terrible conditions after the collapse of so-called "evil" Soviet Union, with the criminal, corruption, homelessness, sudden unemployment, emigration of most of the precious people (including coaches) it was not possible to give enough attention to such an elite sport as figure skating. Yagudin, Plushenko, Slutskaya is earlier generation that mainly represented last waive of Soviet skaters/school. Then there was a "hole". Do you know any single figure skater in Russia on the world level being born between 1989-1995 except Leonova? Why do you think Adelina won her national title at the age of 12? The collapse of the "empire" caused the terrible life conditions in which almost a whole generation was lost.

In addition, I never told anyone is fat. I told that young people are bigger in North America because of unhealthy eating and almost all the food having hormones. I live in the U.S. for 5 years (both Northeast and Southeast) and see the difference in people appearance, their habits of eating out, as well as I struggle in trying to find natural produce. Therefore you see people not necessary fatter but with more evident female gender features. And of course, you cannot argue with me, that having big boobs and butt makes it hard for a lady figure skater. It is not just about weight, but of course weight is indeed important.

You can argue about Liza, but she indeed is SMALLER than American girls despite she does have genetically heavier body type (see her mother). I think that Gracie would not have those small jumping problems she experiences this season if she would not grow so much for this summer. But sorry it is really another topic to talk about.

 

[Lipea]

Wow, this thread has deteriorated into "Americans are fat" "Russians have no artistry" "Liza is fatter than Ashley"?? :disapp:

Well, blame those people who cannot read correctly and immediately starting to argue about some artument they made up in their minds.
Both Liza and Ashley are incredibly beautiful in my opinion, by the way.

 

[OS]

Wow what a suprising result! I'd never have guessed...

 

[satine]

If Anna would be born in Canada or US she would not be nearly as good as she is. In America to get child training like in Russia would be extremely expensive, that's why American skaters must be first of all financially capable and in addition to having a huge desire. And plus she would be fatter - look at all US ladies and, I am sorry, Canadian juniors whom I would never be able to call juniors. So, Russia has those girls not because of the girls but because of the system. If it would not be them, it would be someone else.

....seriously? :sarcasm:

 

[kresslia]

To the people in here calling these young girls fat - kindly shut up. You are the reason why such a large amount of girls develop eating disorders.

 

[Lipea]

To the people in here calling these young girls fat - kindly shut up. You are the reason why such a large amount of girls develop eating disorders.

None told that, it is you who assume it and make a deal out of it. Yes, junior Canadian ladies look averagely 7-8 years older than they should be and what girls used to look in their age at times when there were no GMO and fast food introduced. They look like women not girls. As you can notice I did not say anyone is fat, but that Anna would be fatter if she would grew up in America. Anyone would be: and to say that America has problems with youth overweight is the same known fact as to say that Russians have problems with corruption on all society levels. And both certainly reflects on sports.
I really hope moderator will clean all the off-topic stuff which is not about ladies figure skating.

 

[SXTN]

On a sidenote: Liza put her Axel jumping pass out of the bonus because it's a spot for the 3A!

I'm a little disappointed she didn't try it when she has practised it so much over the last weeks. There was nothing to lose. If she failed, she would have been in 3rd place...

 

[comixarma]

She's [Elena's] still juniorish IMO right now. Watch Ashley's long program at Nationals and you'll see the difference.

The Ashley the world witnessed at the GPs was hardly impressive. Anyway, what has "Ashley's long program at Nationals" to do with the Euros?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I really don't think Lipea meant any offense.

Can we move along?

I have a Liza question. Does she have a planned 3lz-2t in her FS!

 

[Lipea]

I really don't think Lipea meant any offense.

Can we move along?

I have a Liza question. Does she have a planned 3lz-2t in her FS!

I, indeed, didn't. I am upset and sorry that it was understood like that by some and developed in its own thing.
I read on one Russian forum that she claimed 3lz-3t. I am not quite sure if it is true though.

 

[Globetrotter]

These girls/ladies just doesn't have the aura of like Yuna and Mao. They don't have such presence on the ice that moves you. They can jump and spin really well but that's about all you get.

To be fair, both Yuna and Mao worked their butts off for years to achieve that aura. When they both started in the 2005-2007 period, everyone could see how much potential they had but boy were they awkward then. Same for Caro Kostner. I still remembered Yuna being clunky in the first few years in seniors, Caro was all long limbs and coltish skating like a speed truck and Mao literally skated through her music! They were all very young then and it takes years before they gained the maturity and musical connection and how to connect to the audience. The Russian girls are all young teenagers, even the "grand dame" Tuks and Sots are only ~18. Give them time to mature. I just hope the Russian Fed will recognise that. Hopefully one of them last long enough to mature gracefully into the next Maria Butyrskaya minus the nervousness and headcase.

 

[Globetrotter]

Maybe she would look like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YafMZNrx2_8 And since when do American skaters not have good technique? Gracie Gold, Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan, to name a few, all had or have stellar technique.

I think what Lipea meant was that the Russian coaches focus a lot more on the technique and athleticism side of things, not that American skaters have bad techniques. Unfortunately, the US female skaters you listed were really not what I will describe as having "stellar" techniques. Other than Kerrigan, the rest of them can't really perform all 5 of the standard triple jumps (toe to lutz) correctly. Kwan is a mild flutzer, Gold is a lipper, Kristi regularly falls on the salchow. Sasha Cohen is the classical American female skater with beautiful lines and package but when you look at the technical aspects, her jumps and edge work were really awful. Ironically, the one skater who had great technique, huge athleticism and great skating skills + edge work was Tonya Harding, but too bad on her lousy training habits and the criminal drama that wasted all that talent. Among the current young crop, I do see Karen Chen as the potential who can definitely give the Russian tsarinas a big run for the titles in a year or two.