2015 Four Continents Ladies Free Skate Feb 15 Seoul Time

[minze]

Maybe people dont like the way she looks. She's an old woman in a short, pre-pubescent girl's body. She wasnt packaged all that well this year either- her SP in particualar.

Her LP is excellent. By the way, I dare say not a lot of people are package well this season. My love Elena is using JLO on her so lyrics. Liza is doing a badly choreograph Bolero. Not to say they don't sell it well. But not what you will expect from the two best skaters at this moment.

 

[Alba]

I'm really tired of Satako's cheated jumps; it's especially bad when she doesn't even land them cleanly. Off the podium for her.

I thought you loved her. At skate Canada you said she was robbed.

 

[skylark]

I'd rather see a Gracie unrefined with explosive jumps than a refined "pretty princess" one with weaker jumps that are inconsistent.

I haven't really followed Gracie prior to 2014 Nationals... was she consistent before moving to Frank? I know she was obviously responsible for bringing back 3 spots for the US ladies... but what about before that?

I've read the rest of the pages (I'm reading back to front) and I didn't see an answer. I'm interested in this question. Did anyone follow her in juniors or have an informed opinion about this? Btw, don't forget it was Ashley plus Gracie, the combination of the two ladies, that brought back 3 spots.

I agree -- for me it's just a feeling -- with a couple of people who think that Frank's rule to treat competitions as just another day of training doesn't work for Gracie. I was at Nationals on 3rd row; once she skated straight toward me in the SP and smiled; it made a difference. She may be a pleaser, like Jason, and so performing for the audience is a positive value for her. I don't think it is for Frank.

I agree that a "fire the coach" discussion is predictable like NFL, but OTOH skaters have limited time and Gracie's time is now. I like someone's idea to hire Todd Eldridge and Callahan. Have her maximize her jumping potential and at the same time go against type, look like Warrior Princess not a movie star on ice.

 

[Alba]

I've read the rest of the pages (I'm reading back to front) and I didn't see an answer. I'm interested in this question. Did anyone follow her in juniors or have an informed opinion about this?

No, I don't think she was consistent before moving to Frank either.

 

[Bumdid]

No, I don't think she was consistent before moving to Frank either.

IA. She was known hugely for being a headcase. A lot of people chalked it to her having multiple coaches at the time. And some people really like her move to Frank since they thought his ways would help her focus. It worked for a while during last season since she did somewhat well during nationals/olympics/world. She was really rough this season though. It made me wonder if she was someone who would do well as the one chasing not leading the podium.

But at least, this happened in the first year of the quad. Maybe this will be her Joshua Farris' NHK moment where she go back to training and have more focus. Denis Ten is also somewhat inconsistent and maybe could help her give some advice?

 

[Krunchii]

I think it's her huge grubby boots.

I think Satoko might benefit from some over the boot tights or something, as much as they are hated by people here I'd rather see over the boot tights than grubby boots

 

[juuryokunashi]

Agree, I can not explain to myself why people can praise Gracie and Li Zujin soo much and always criticize to Satoko and Polina.

Maybe people dont like the way she looks. She's an old woman in a short, pre-pubescent girl's body. She wasnt packaged all that well this year either- her SP in particualar.

This just reiterates why I think everyone's being harsh on Satoko -- because not everyone finds her 'pretty enough' to be traipsing and spinning on the ice. Gracie and Zijun (in this competition's Top tier, at least) look easy on the eye while Satoko (and to an extent, Polina and Anna Pogo and even Rika) are not immediately as easy on the eye as the aforementioned two.

People may deny it but how a female figure skater looks on the ice greatly influences who they'd choose to support/get behind.

(I really think Satoko's very adorable though. Yes, she is 16 and she has braces and is an introvert, but if you see her with her hair down, she's just really cute.)

 

[Tutto]

Lets be honest, it can be unfair but aesthetics play a big role in figure skating. It helps when a skater is pretty and graceful, judges are human beings and influenced by what they see and someone like Kiira Korpi gets extra marks for being such an eye pleasing figure on the ice. I certainly appreciate beautiful lines of Sasha for instance but I also can appreciate athletic type of skaters i.e Irina Slutskaya. The problem with Satoko is that she is neither athletic nor balletic. She is slim but not well proportioned (small body, big head) and looks oddly out of place on the ice. Her jumps not helping either, I feel very uncomfortable watching her. Hopefully she will grow into nice young lady but at present her physique works against her.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This just reiterates why I think everyone's being harsh on Satoko -- because not everyone finds her 'pretty enough' to be traipsing and spinning on the ice. Gracie and Zijun (in this competition's Top tier, at least) look easy on the eye while Satoko (and to an extent, Polina and Anna Pogo and even Rika) are not immediately as easy on the eye as the aforementioned two.

People may deny it but how a female figure skater looks on the ice greatly influences who they'd choose to support/get behind.

(I really think Satoko's very adorable though. Yes, she is 16 and she has braces and is an introvert, but if you see her with her hair down, she's just really cute.)

I think she is very cute and TBH that has nothing to do with why I like her. For me I like her lines and her ability to deliver what I consider to be meaningful and dare I say inspiring movements on ice. She is a master at controlling her speed and adapting it to the music. I seem to be one of the few who actually likes her SP...but can we move away from the shoulder pads.

That said I am harsh and critical on her jumps. The video I posted yesterday was of her best jump from the SP and it was cheated to the point that almost an entire revolution was done on the ice. It's visible to the naked eye which causes a jarring effect on the overall presentation. I think this hurts her PCS(no(!) I dont agree it should...but i think it does) Her jumps aren't small they are borderline double jumps that are receiving full credit entirely dependent on the composition of the tech panel.

People are harsh on her but I don't think unfairly so.

 

[Alba]

Lets be honest, it can be unfair but aesthetics play a big role in figure skating. It helps when a skater is pretty and graceful, judges are human beings and influenced by what they see and someone like Kiira Korpi gets extra marks for being such an eye pleasing figure on the ice.

It's true and to be completely honest I don't think it's unfair either. If we are talking from and "artistic" point of view, being pretty, graceful, elegant, have a good posture etc. helps and it's about right.

p.s. I think Satoko is adorable and graceful though. She has a good posture and very good SS. At least in my eyes.

 

[chloepoco]

I think she is very cute and TBH that has nothing to do with why I like her. For me I like her lines and her ability to deliver what I consider to be meaningful and dare I say inspiring movements on ice. She is a master at controlling her speed and adapting it to the music. I seem to be one of the few who actually likes her SP...but can we move away from the shoulder pads.

That said I am harsh and critical on her jumps. The video I posted yesterday was of her best jump from the SP and it was cheated to the point that almost an entire revolution was done on the ice. It's visible to the naked eye which causes a jarring effect on the overall presentation. I think this hurts her PCS(no(!) I dont agree it should...but i think it does) Her jumps aren't small they are borderline double jumps that are receiving full credit entirely dependent on the composition of the tech panel.

People are harsh on her but I don't think unfairly so.

When you start criticizing a person's physical looks, I believe that is not only unfair, but uncalled for.

 

[Meoima]

Midori Ito didn't look as pretty as many other her rivals when she was competing, but I hardly remember people critizied her. I think it's simply because she did big tricks, huge jumps that might even be better than many men in her days. Personally I doubt that people critize Satoko because they think she doesn't look pretty enough. Let's say, I don't think the Shibs have captivating looks either but I still root for them.

I guess the problem with Satoko is that her jumps are really really small, and her frame is so small as well, thus limit the projection of her refined movements and detailed choreography. My friend was among the audience and he said he loved her LP very much, but it's true that he also said: "From the afar it's really hard to see when she did a jump". If she jumped like... Karen Chen, I think people would criticize her less.

 

[Alba]

Midori Ito didn't look as pretty as many other her rivals when she was competing, but I hardly remember people critizied her. I think it's simply because she did big tricks, huge jumps that might even be better than many men in her days. Personally I don't think people critize Satoko because they think she doesn't look pretty enough. Let's say, I don't think the Shibs have captivating looks either but I still root for them.

Well, I never though she was a graceful or elegant skater either. I can very well like different type of skaters and I'm very happy we have them, otherwise it would be a snoozefest.

 

[satine]

Why are half (or even more) of these posts centered around Polina & Satoko not objectively critical of them as skaters, but just plain catty? :disapp:

 

[skylark]

IA. She was known hugely for being a headcase. A lot of people chalked it to her having multiple coaches at the time. And some people really like her move to Frank since they thought his ways would help her focus. It worked for a while during last season since she did somewhat well during nationals/olympics/world. She was really rough this season though. It made me wonder if she was someone who would do well as the one chasing not leading the podium.

But at least, this happened in the first year of the quad. Maybe this will be her Joshua Farris' NHK moment where she go back to training and have more focus. Denis Ten is also somewhat inconsistent and maybe could help her give some advice?

Thank you both for your replies. Chasing the podium, Joshua F moment, yeah, could work. And Denis is her training mate. I think he said a lot with his comments in the win interview, though. For him, it was about inspiration via Yuna's show, and about getting such wonderful support from the Korean fans. Reminds me of Liza's remark that this year, she found a way to skate for other people, not just for herself.

 

[Sandpiper]

Midori Ito didn't look as pretty as many other her rivals when she was competing, but I hardly remember people critizied her. I think it's simply because she did big tricks, huge jumps that might even be better than many men in her days. Personally I doubt that people critize Satoko because they think she doesn't look pretty enough. Let's say, I don't think the Shibs have captivating looks either but I still root for them.

I guess the problem with Satoko is that her jumps are really really small, and her frame is so small as well, thus limit the projection of her refined movements and detailed choreography. My friend was among the audience and he said he loved her LP very much, but it's true that he also said: "From the afar it's really hard to see when she did a jump". If she jumped like... Karen Chen, I think people would criticize her less.

:thumbsup:

 

[andromache]

It's true and to be completely honest I don't think it's unfair either. If we are talking from and "artistic" point of view, being pretty, graceful, elegant, have a good posture etc. helps and it's about right.

p.s. I think Satoko is adorable and graceful though. She has a good posture and very good SS. At least in my eyes.

I think there's a difference between being pretty and the rest of the qualities you listed. Being pretty has nothing to do with skating or artistry, while grace, elegance, and posture are all attributes that increase the quality of skating.

 

[Alba]

I think there's a difference between being pretty and the rest of the qualities you listed. Being pretty has nothing to do with skating or artistry, while grace, elegance, and posture are all attributes that increase the quality of skating.

I agree, but I had to include that because sometimes it helps, when you have the other qualities of course. Pretty alone is nothing, at least for me.

 

[qwertyskates]

Add me to the group who *cringed* at Polina's very pink, fluffy, gangly overgrown Tinkerbell, twirling to Disney chimes...ugh.... The Gala also made me ill...too precious, saccharine. I like her SP better. I understand she's still 16, but she looks like a giant misshapen pixie, and the effect is jarring. For what it's worth, I was borderline sickened by Li Zijun's Sleeping Beauty dress as well, fortunately it's a shade closer to lilac, though her huge jumps, flow, spins, perfect time, all made up for it. I think Gracie's original pink wedding cake getup for Sleeping Beauty also caused significant revulsion. :disapp: Same skate, a new elegant blue dress, and me eyes thank Frank Carroll.

I don't think less than movie star looks got Satoko penalized, Polina looks worse, imho, but a good skate is a good skate. I don't "get" Satoko either, though I like Julia L, Karen Chen, and many other pint sized skaters.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I thought you loved her. At skate Canada you said she was robbed.

I do love her! But it's hard to overlook her awful jump technique and at this competition it was really glaring. I think her program has gotten worse too, with the way they changed the jump order around.