2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24

[ranjake]

Ashley was a very mediocre skater early in her career. I couldn't believe she thought she was a contender for the Olympic team in 2010. The change to Nicks and Mills transformed her and she built on it. It's quite an achievement and has made me a fan.

I also feel that she is one of the few who has REALLY transformed!

 

[Sophie-Anna]

My feelings exactly. However, she was only one landed 3lutz away from making 2010 Olympic team based on the scores. But her skating was generic, busy for no discernible reason and had no point of view. Her switch to Nicks and Mills jump started her failing career. I really respect her for making that move. Otherwise she'd probably still be around in her mid 20s with the same stale coach skating exactly the same she skated as an 18 y/o with no discernible improvement, like Tonia Kwiatkowski back in the day. The fact that she recognized all of her major weaknesses and worked her butt off to improve deserves respect.

This is absolutely true Mr. Nicks was the key point in her career he created from her really special skater so Ashley can build on that more with Rafael now. Mr. Nicks is just incredible :thumbsup:

 

[Sandpiper]

Now, I'm a fan of the Russian girls. But if Ashley had skated her Nationals performances at GPF, I wouldn't have uttered one word of protest if she'd won.

If she can do a slightly better SP at Worlds--no two-foot on the 3-3, performs it with the same fire as her LP--and puts it together with this LP... I'd probably hang the gold medal around her neck even if the Russians go clean (unless Liza brings 3A or lutz-toe).

I don't understand why people say her program is "too empty." I get that for her SP (needs. extra. split jump.) But her LP? She has difficult entries to many of her jumps, including her second 3-3. There are certainly "slow moments," but they fit with the music and enhance the program. I don't feel that the golden rule should be "more, more, more transitions!" I see it more like, "enough transitions to make it one whole program; transitions enhance the program, its elements, and the skater's interpretation."

Having seen Gracie's performance now... Never mind the SP lead, I would've given it to Ashley anyway, even if Gracie had stood up on that flip. I do give Gracie credit for skating her best LP of the season. It would've been enough to win at a different Nationals. But considering what Ashley threw down, Gracie needed something magical. And so far, she hasn't created that.

 

[Blades of Passion]

We will just have to agree to disagre BOP.

In other words you don't want to look at facts. http://www.mediafire.com/download/d5ynqe94r10/2008_US_Nats_Ashley_Wagner_SP(NBC).avi

FULLY rotated 3Lutz+3Loop in 2008 from Wagner.

Her 3Loop+1Loop+3Sal combo this season will not be ratified internationally (unless it improves). The cheat is very clear and if you don't want to bother to look at the playback and pay attention to where her skate leaves the ice and where it lands, then I'm not sure what else there is to say.

I think I said she deserved around an 8 in SS, didn't I? And comparing her to Chan, a male skater?? In any event, it's not supposed to be a comparison or ranking but if it was, I don't think judges would be asked to compare ladies skaters to men.

Compare Ashley to Kostner, then, if you think that women inherently have inferior skating skills and musical interpretation to men.

Looking back at your comment, you said "she deserves 8's in skating skills and transitions, 9's in the other components."

What about her performance makes it deserving of 8's in transitions? She has a couple of simple transitions before her double axels, but still rather long pause before doing those jumps. She has a spread eagle leading up to her second 3Loop. The other 4 jumping passes in the program are nothing but crossovers going in. None of her jumps have any special transition coming out (and barely any running edge in a few cases). The other movements between the elements are not difficult.

Similarly, how does her movement match the music and bring out its character so well that it deserves 9's in interpretation? I see many holes. When the soundtrack is going "diamonds are a, diamonds are a" she is doing a hunched over sit spin. How does that interpret the music? In the slow section after her spin ends she just kind of stands there to "hit her mark", there isn't anything going on with her posture or arms to portray the music more sensitively. Later in this slow section she does quick arm pumps, which are out of place. "Why live life from dream to dream" during the footwork sequence isn't given an appropriate movement, she's just doing compulsory turns. The second "the show must go on" towards the end of the program is not given an emphatic movement when it should. End of the program has a rather lackluster spin and is rushed.

 

[Mrs. P]

You've said plenty, BOP. I'm fine if you don't have anything more to say.

 

[Figure 8's]

Come on fall Polina!!! If Mirai can't go to Worlds, then I want Sammy to.

Wow, wishing bad luck on some one? Marai fans can be so classless.

 

[MK's Winter]

Wow, wishing bad luck on some one? Marai fans can be so classless.

I would never wish that on anyone. Please don't label us all that same.

 

[Scovies]

I was referring to American ladies in general. Gracie is at a plateau. Polina seems to be regressing. In Ashley's case, her best program is Samson and Delilah, but it was still a rather empty program. Moulin Rouge is even emptier. I don't think she's improved choreographically. Technically, she's delivered a clean performance but surely the international judges are going to slam her for UR and edge calls. Minor improvements are great, but still not enough to get rid of the problem. In this field, it's not good enough. She may still edge for a World bronze and I hope she does.

On the technical front, I don't agree with this. I don't know if it's fair to bust Polina for regressing when she's dealing with a significant growth spurt, and Ashley certainly didn't get slammed for URs or edge calls at the GPF (and she seems to have fixed her problem with URing her loops in the LP). I do think Ashley's 3-3 in the SP was URed, but I'm honestly not seeing any rotation problems in her LP. She should have gotten calls for an unclear edge last night, but she wasn't flutzing. Besides, she will have 4CC to get her new jump layout in front of an international panel before worlds. I actually think her biggest problem at the moment is her spin levels in the LP, which is strange because she hasn't had a problem getting Level 4s in the SP.

As far as the rest of the U.S. ladies, they do seem to be stepping it up technically. Just for an example: at least year's nationals, there were 9 attempts at triple-triples in the SP. This year we had 14. Artistically... I mean, the two top skaters in the world right now are Liza (who is fun and I enjoy watching her, but nobody would ever mistake her for an "artist.") and Radionova, who has great attack and projection but desperately needs to work on polishing up her frantic, flail-y presentation. Satoko is wonderful, but her small stature and careful, measured presentation hasn't quite caught on with the judges like it probably should have. There simply isn't anyone out there right now with the artistry of Yuna, Mao, or Carolina. There are several skaters who could get there, but it will take a few years.

Even before the IJS, fans were always very harsh about UR, flutzing, lipping, etc. The consensus was that the technique is not sound. So we're applauding and even apologizing for poor techniques especially with world-class training and coaches? People congratulate for lesser poor technique instead of emphasizing good technique.

I do applaud Ashley, a chronic flutzer, for getting her lutz down to a (!) call in the space of a few months. It's not that everything is fine and perfect now -- she's never going to have Liza's jump technique -- but she truly has made great strides in one season. Her BV has gone from 52 (Skate Canada) to 54 (TEB) to 57 (GPF) to 60 (U.S. Nats). I'm commending her for improvement, not perfection.

My feelings exactly. However, she was only one landed 3lutz away from making 2010 Olympic team based on the scores. But her skating was generic, busy for no discernible reason and had no point of view. Her switch to Nicks and Mills jump started her failing career. I really respect her for making that move. Otherwise she'd probably still be around in her mid 20s with the same stale coach skating exactly the same she skated as an 18 y/o with no discernible improvement, like Tonia Kwiatkowski back in the day. The fact that she recognized all of her major weaknesses and worked her butt off to improve deserves respect.

This, so much. I stopped following figure skating heavily for several years, so I missed a lot of Ashley's earlier programs. I recently saw her Spartacus LP from the 08-09 season, and WOW, I hated it. She's a completely different skater now, IMO, in a good way.

 

[CutieP]

What about her performance makes it deserving of 8's in transitions? She has a couple of simple transitions before her double axels, but still rather long pause before doing those jumps. She has a spread eagle leading up to her second 3Loop. The other 4 jumping passes in the program are nothing but crossovers going in. None of her jumps have any special transition coming out (and barely any running edge in a few cases). The other movements between the elements are not difficult.

I find this bit intresting.:thumbsup: How do you, Blades of Passion, feel that this compares to the 3 russians who are likely going to compete at worlds (Liza, Lena, Anna). Are their movements between elements and leading up to jumps more difficult?

 

[jenaj]

In other words you don't want to look at facts. http://www.mediafire.com/download/d5ynqe94r10/2008_US_Nats_Ashley_Wagner_SP(NBC).avi

FULLY rotated 3Lutz+3Loop in 2008 from Wagner.

Her 3Loop+1Loop+3Sal combo this season will not be ratified internationally (unless it improves). The cheat is very clear and if you don't want to bother to look at the playback and pay attention to where her skate leaves the ice and where it lands, then I'm not sure what else there is to say.



Compare Ashley to Kostner, then, if you think that women inherently have inferior skating skills and musical interpretation to men.

Looking back at your comment, you said "she deserves 8's in skating skills and transitions, 9's in the other components."

What about her performance makes it deserving of 8's in transitions? She has a couple of simple transitions before her double axels, but still rather long pause before doing those jumps. She has a spread eagle leading up to her second 3Loop. The other 4 jumping passes in the program are nothing but crossovers going in. None of her jumps have any special transition coming out (and barely any running edge in a few cases). The other movements between the elements are not difficult.

Similarly, how does her movement match the music and bring out its character so well that it deserves 9's in interpretation? I see many holes. When the soundtrack is going "diamonds are a, diamonds are a" she is doing a hunched over sit spin. How does that interpret the music? In the slow section after her spin ends she just kind of stands there to "hit her mark", there isn't anything going on with her posture or arms to portray the music more sensitively. Later in this slow section she does quick arm pumps, which are out of place. "Why live life from dream to dream" during the footwork sequence isn't given an appropriate movement, she's just doing compulsory turns. The second "the show must go on" towards the end of the program is not given an emphatic movement when it should. End of the program has a rather lackluster spin and is rushed.

Ok-Kostner SS 9.5, Ashley 8, just like I said. I'll go with the judges on transitions, since I am still unclear on the meaning of that element or how the number or alleged difficulty translates into a score. The other components are more subjective. It can't be denied that Ashley performed the heck out of the program and engaged the audience. I thought she interpreted the music well and told a story. I also thought the choreo was fine-the jumps and moves were well-placed with the music, there was good ice coverage and effective use of spirals, split jumps, spreads eagles in coordination with the music. In the end, all that matters is whether she deserved to be in first place and clearly she did.

 

[Figure 8's]

I thought Ashley was awesome last night. What I like the most about her, is she is striving to get better, to be more competitive. Loved, loved her Red Dress. It really said look at me. Good for her for not letting her critics discourage her.

 

[Krunchii]

On the technical front, I don't agree with this. I don't know if it's fair to bust Polina for regressing when she's dealing with a significant growth spurt, and Ashley certainly didn't get slammed for URs or edge calls at the GPF (and she seems to have fixed her problem with URing her loops in the LP). I do think Ashley's 3-3 in the SP was URed, but I'm honestly not seeing any rotation problems in her LP. She should have gotten calls for an unclear edge last night, but she wasn't flutzing. Besides, she will have 4CC to get her new jump layout in front of an international panel before worlds. I actually think her biggest problem at the moment is her spin levels in the LP, which is strange because she hasn't had a problem getting Level 4s in the SP.

I think that has to do with the choreography, the amount of time she gives for herself to execute her spins just isn't enough. Ashley isn't a fantastic spinner but she's worked on holding her positions better and everything but she's not fast enough to finish a level 4 spin in the allotted time in the choreography. Especially the last one, she's got to spin really fast to get the final upright position. From her GPF LP, she got about 11 seconds to do the spin which resulted in a level 2 spin while in her SP she took 14 seconds for the combination spin which got her a level 4

 

[Mrs. P]

Zooey Deschanel just shared this on FB: http://hellogiggles.com/ashley-wagner

 

[Figure 8's]

Zooey Deschanel just shared this on FB: http://hellogiggles.com/ashley-wagner

Thanks for that. That is right on the money. As they say, Ashley not only talked the talk but walked the walk.

 

[LiamForeman]

Wow, wishing bad luck on some one? Marai fans can be so classless.

Oh please, it is SPORT! I suppose you think college football games when one side is saying "SACK HIM! or FUMBLE!!!" is being classless? It's sport. This is not nursery school. GROW UP.

 

[tulosai]

Ashley was a very mediocre skater early in her career. I couldn't believe she thought she was a contender for the Olympic team in 2010. The change to Nicks and Mills transformed her and she built on it. It's quite an achievement and has made me a fan.

Agree 100%.

I would never wish that on anyone. Please don't label us all that same.

This, and also, some 'uber fans' of any skater can get pretty classless. It was a Mirai fan this time, and next time who knows. There are just some nasty people is the truth, who their favorites happen to be don't have anything to do with it.

 

[Miss Ice]

I am the only one I know so far who predicted the top three correctly. Way back to several weeks ago, too.

:dance: :dance: :dance:

WAY TO GO KAREN!!!

 

[mustafakent]

Nobody deserved to win more than Ashley deserved and somebody's still talking about something that Ashley can't do anything.But I don't give a damn.I knew that haters gonna hate that program.

 

[Miss Ice]

Karen, with a clean program, below Gold, who fell?

Can someone explain? Is it the PCS again?

P.S. Besides the slight underrotation on the toe in 3L-3T, Karen did not put a foot wrong. And underrotation did not stop Wagner from sweeping 72 in the SP (have not seen her LP yet).

Honestly, Karen was stellar. The standing ovation was much merited. I am so proud, so happy for her.

 

[cooper]

hopefully wagner can somehow duplicate her performance here in this year's worlds..

how old is karen?? if she can survive the growth spurt i think she has the chance to battle the russians in the future..