2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[macy]

https://instagram.com/p/BY6CFS5A739/

Clip of Hannah Miller's hunger games FS this season. Looks like she's doing much better!

 

[princessalica]

So Bradie now officially has the Skate America Spot. If she maintains momentum, this could be her moment! I haven't been a big fan, but I'm excited to see someone improve like she has. She's making a case for herself. I mean what I really want is Gracie to come back guns blazing, jumps on fire, but other than that we have some wonderful US ladies that all have something to fix/prove.

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Re: Hannah Miller's Hungergames Program

I saw that last night! I really now want to see the entire program.

 

[andromache]

Her 3lz is too big and throws the momentum off. A big first jump in combination isn't always a great thing.

I've speculated that before after hearing something similar about someone else's 3-3. Maybe Gabby Daleman had a similar problem with her 3Lz-3T?

It's just frustrating that it doesn't seem to be something that has been addressed seriously by her team.

 

[Gullygirl84]

I've speculated that before after hearing something similar about someone else's 3-3. Maybe Gabby Daleman had a similar problem with her 3Lz-3T?

It's just frustrating that it doesn't seem to be something that has been addressed seriously by her team.

Well, we don't know that it hasn't been addressed by Karen's team, as in, something that she's working on (but hasn't improved on). I always wondered if she should go for a different combination so that she could have a big triple lutz as her solo jump, but I suppose that it's too late at this point. I thought that her combination in the SP at worlds was under, but she didn't get called for it, so maybe it's something that will depend on the caller at her GP events...

 

[Moxiejan]

I've speculated that before after hearing something similar about someone else's 3-3.

This seems to be a problem for Courtney Hicks, though not so much this year with her fab 3f-3l.

Maybe with her, it's getting a proper takeoff for the 3t that's the problem.

 

[SnowWhite]

I've speculated that before after hearing something similar about someone else's 3-3. Maybe Gabby Daleman had a similar problem with her 3Lz-3T?

It's just frustrating that it doesn't seem to be something that has been addressed seriously by her team.

Gabby did have that issue, which is why she ended up switching her combo to 3T-3T, which she often got mostly (if not all) +3s for. I don't remember if she was getting UR calls, or just having trouble landing it consistently. She commented at Worlds that her 3Lz is so big that people have asked her about going for not just the 4T but also 4Lz (she said she wants to try a quad, but not this season). I think I saw that she's planning to go back to the 3Lz-3T for this season though.

If Karen keeps having issues with it, it might be worth switching the combo to something she can get high GOE on and land consistently. For example, at Worlds both Evgenia and Kaetlyn got 11.00 for their opening 3F-3T combos in the long, and Gabby got 10.70 for her opening 3T-3T, so not that big of a difference. Obviously if you can do the harder combo well that's ideal, but if it's not consistent, there are other options.

 

[andromache]

Gabby did have that issue, which is why she ended up switching her combo to 3T-3T, which she often got mostly (if not all) +3s for. I don't remember if she was getting UR calls, or just having trouble landing it consistently. She commented at Worlds that her 3Lz is so big that people have asked her about going for not just the 4T but also 4Lz (she said she wants to try a quad, but not this season). I think I saw that she's planning to go back to the 3Lz-3T for this season though.

If Karen keeps having issues with it, it might be worth switching the combo to something she can get high GOE on and land consistently. For example, at Worlds both Evgenia and Kaetlyn got 11.00 for their opening 3F-3T combos in the long, and Gabby got 10.70 for her opening 3T-3T, so not that big of a difference. Obviously if you can do the harder combo well that's ideal, but if it's not consistent, there are other options.

Karen has a 3S-2T - maybe it would be worth seeing if she can turn that into a 3-3, and then do a 3Lz-2T? It would be the simplest way to re-tool her jump combos without having to mess around with any of the other jumping passes. The 3T-3T presents a problem because then you can't do a 2A-3T anymore in the LP (am I actually right on that?)

In that regard, I see why Gabby wants to do the 3Lz-3T instead of the 3T-3T. Her 3T-3T is almost as good as a 3F-3T points-wise on its own, but it means she can't tack on a 3T to another jump. The 3-Lo-3 combo comes in handy there, but I don't think Gabby has one? Last year Gabby did a SEQ in her LP, but SEQs leave points on the table. On the other hand, I'd rather see Gabby keep her 3T-3T and move it to the back half of both SP and LP.

(I'm not good at COP so I apologize for anything wrong I have said in this post lol)

 

[shmay]

I love that program but why would you repeat something you did your best at?

Lack of ideas
Lack of foresight
Complacency
the list goes on....

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Her 3lz is too big and throws the momentum off. A big first jump in combination isn't always a great thing.

I think this is likely the case. She also seems to take longer than other skaters to take-off for the 3T, which might cause her to lose speed prior to the second jump.

 

[brightphoton]

Lack of ideas
Lack of foresight
Complacency
the list goes on....

Ashley had 5 or 6 concussions, and now she has severe memory problems. Creating and remembering new programs is very difficult for her. Because of her concussions, she also feels pain when spinning, which is why she often gets lower levels during spins.

I'm sure if she didn't have head injuries, she would happily have 2 new programs a year and rapid spins.

 

[Gullygirl84]

To be fair, even though it's being brought up a lot, we do not know if the concussion thing is the reason why Ashley decided to keep Moulin Rouge. Maybe she'll talk about it at the pre-Olympic media summit next week.

 

[brightphoton]

To be fair, even though it's being brought up a lot, we do not know if the concussion thing is the reason why Ashley decided to keep Moulin Rouge. Maybe she'll talk about it at the pre-Olympic media summit next week.

That's fair. I just feel annoyed when people say that she's re-using Moulin Rouge because perhaps she's complacent or lacks foresight. Especially given how excited she was when she announced her La La Land free program, but it didn't work out, for whatever reason.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

That's fair. I just feel annoyed when people say that she's re-using Moulin Rouge because perhaps she's complacent or lacks foresight. Especially given how excited she was when she announced her La La Land free program, but it didn't work out, for whatever reason.

I respect her decision, but I do wonder how hard it would be for her to relearn one of her previous LPs. Her Samson and Delilah and Black Swan programs were both good, and using one would at least be a bit of a change for fans and judges.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I respect her decision, but I do wonder how hard it would be for her to relearn one of her previous LPs. Her Samson and Delilah and Black Swan programs were both good, and using one would at least be a bit of a change for fans and judges.

Ones old programs are always in the muscle memory somewhere and it would come back eventually. The issues though would be her remembering and retaining choreo since she has the cognitive issues from her past concussions, and also that you will never see these programs done again since the falling out with Mills.

 

[mrrice]

Ones old programs are always in the muscle memory somewhere and it would come back eventually. The issues though would be her remembering and retaining choreo since she has the cognitive issues from her past concussions, and also that you will never see these programs done again since the falling out with Mills.

I agree with the Mills situation. Even though some would argue that Ashley had bought and paid for those programs........Judges know where they came from and if it's anything like dance, it will be reflected in her scores. I re-used one of "My Own" dances and I had judges telling me that they though it was a cop out....We never got great scores that season and though the dance was popular with the audience, it never scored the way it did the first time we used it.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I agree with the Mills situation. Even though some would argue that Ashley had bought and paid for those programs........Judges know where they came from and if it's anything like dance, it will be reflected in her scores. I re-used one of "My Own" dances and I had judges telling me that they though it was a cop out....We never got great scores that season and though the dance was popular with the audience, it never scored the way it did the first time we used it.

That wasn't the point I was making about the Mills programs. The point was that out of respect or disgust (whichever it is) you just don't reuse those programs after a "falling out."

 

[Jammers]

I already really miss Gracie. I sometimes just go watch old programs to see how good she really was and can be! Carly was posting on instagram and if reports of Gracie's skating are accurate, then Carly can currently outjump Gracie. I find it hard to believe that physically Gracie has lost that much. I really wonder if that is a mental issue too. I'm not bashing Gracie at all. I just want her to be the best she can be, because I know she could be on par with anyone if she was!

And I think that Polina has matured as a skater since her last nationals performance. She's getting her jumps back, and she did win Four Continents a few years ago, so some of the judges do take her seriously. Actually Polina and Mirai have a lots of similar issues with the under roataions, but can also put out some amazing performances.

I really hope that she comes back and skates like she can! Fredtx121, I would also include Bradie Tennel in the list because she is working hard to prove her case for being a contender from everything she's done this season so far, and as long as she continues in the way she has skated, I think judges will take her more seriously. No she isn't at the level of Ashley or Gracie, but there are upsets in results many times, and I think she could possibly be the one to deliver.

Yeah it really is sad how far Gracie has fallen. As inconsistent as she was and not being a natural performer it didn't matter if she went out and attacked and landed her jumps she had World champion written all over her. Since Sasha and Michelle retired Gracie was the only US lady in the last decade that had the talent and a real shot at winning a World championship at her best. When she was on her game no US lady in the last decade could beat her.

 

[pearly]

That wasn't the point I was making about the Mills programs. The point was that out of respect or disgust (whichever it is) you just don't reuse those programs after a "falling out."

I never paid any attention to the behind the scenes, personal issues and gossip. What happened with Phillip Mills?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I never paid any attention to the behind the scenes, personal issues and gossip. What happened with Phillip Mills?

He resigned from working with her: Nothing else to say about it.

 

[skylark]

Lack of ideas
Lack of foresight
Complacency
the list goes on....

Not one of your proposed list applies to Ashley.

She wanted to skate to La La Land since before last year's Worlds. Had the idea, texted Shae-Lynne about it that day. She already had a two year plan, which is why she skated her LP to Muse last year. She wanted a departure from the character-driven programs that people expect to see from her. Her plan was always to go back to a character/story program for the Olympic season.

So, strike "lack of ideas" and "lack of foresight" off your list.

Complacency? Have you listened to any of Ashley's interviews recently, or read any? If you had, or paid attention, you'd know she's anything but complacent. She knows what her challenges are. She and her team are working on them.

So, strike the last item off your list. Maybe you were thinking of someone else ....