2023 Lake Placid Ice Dance International | Jul 31 - Aug 2

[Diana Delafield]

You got me curious, so I went looking and found a video of it:

Karyn Garossino / Rodney Garossino - 1986 Canadian Championships Free Dance

By the way, who are the commentators? One of the male commentators sounds like Scott Hamilton to me, but he wasn't long retired from competitive skating. I don't know when Scott started commentating, but 2 years seems too soon in my mind. Especially at a time when he was starting off on a professional career.

At one stage, he addresses the female commentator by her first name. So, given that it is the Canadian Championships, I am guessing that she is Debbi Wilkes.

Anyway, I had to laugh when she was at pains to stress at the start that it was not an actual adaptation of the story. If she had quit there, it would have been alright. But she talked on. And by the time she finished, she had made it sound like the programme was definitely about incest.

It didn't look too bad to me. I've seen other attempts at romantic programmes by siblings that are more questionable than this one.





Yeah, I can imagine that situation being common.





CaroLiza_fan

There are two male commentators. It's Canadian television, so one is Johnny Esaw, who was a TV producer and huge fan of skating who really promoted it heavily on the CTV network. The other male voice is Toller Cranston. And the woman, as you said, is Debbi Wilkes.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

There are two male commentators. It's Canadian television, so one is Johnny Esaw, who was a TV producer and huge fan of skating who really promoted it heavily on the CTV network. The other male voice is Toller Cranston. And the woman, as you said, is Debbi Wilkes.

That is the second time this week I've learnt something new about Toller Cranston. On Wednesday, I found out that he was a choreographer. And today I found out that he was a commentator. I only ever knew Toller as a skater. I didn't know anything about what he did after he retired. (I just watched a bit of an interview with him, and he is the voice that I thought sounded like Scott Hamilton).

Sorry, I should have mentioned that there was another male voice, but I didn't want to embarrass myself by saying I hadn't a clue who he was, in case it turned out to be one of the iconic voices of North American skating commentary. (I can't identify any North American commentators. I only know what Scott sounds like because I watched a couple of his videos on Cameo a few weeks ago).

So thank you for telling me who he was. I admit I hadn't come across Johnny Esaw before. But, listening to him in that video, you can hear the enthusiasm coming through.

You know, I always think the best commentary teams are those that have a mix of former competitors and people who have an interest in the sport. If it is just former competitors, there is the danger that the discussion could get too technical for the more casual viewer. So, adding a fan in can help balance that. Provided, of course, that they know what they are talking about. Unlike the BBC who, since the brilliant Sue Barker (a tennis player) retired, has partnered Men's skater Robin Cousins with Kat Downes, who doesn't know what she is talking about. (And unfortunately the British Fed have gone down the same route with their coverage of Nationals, bringing in somebody who is completely clueless).

Thank you for the information.



CaroLiza_fan

 

[statmam]

You wonder how often the skaters, the men especially, actually *like* their costumes. I couldn't find a video of whatever year it was, although I remember seeing it, but Peter Oppegard was quoted as saying he could never bear to watch their performances from a year when he was forced to wear a pale pink jumpsuit with frothy cream trim. He said he looked like a slice of birthday cake.

Watson & Oppegard - 1986 U.S. Figure Skating Championships, Pairs' Long Program

Uniondale, New York, USA - 1986 United States Figure Skating Championships, Pairs' Long Program - First, a profile on Jill Watson and Peter Oppegard, followe...

youtu.be

 

[labgoat]

You wonder how often the skaters, the men especially, actually *like* their costumes. I couldn't find a video of whatever year it was, although I remember seeing it, but Peter Oppegard was quoted as saying he could never bear to watch their performances from a year when he was forced to wear a pale pink jumpsuit with frothy cream trim. He said he looked like a slice of birthday cake.

They looked like they belonged on a cake in buttercream frosting with pink icing.

 

[labgoat]

So, given that it is the Canadian Championships, I am guessing that she is Debbi Wilkes.

Yes that is Debbi Wilkes. She bit off more than she could chew with her comments. Usually she is quite a pleasing commentator, but everyone has their day that they just can’t stop talking and just keep making things worse.

 

[labgoat]

There are two male commentators. It's Canadian television, so one is Johnny Esaw, who was a TV producer and huge fan of skating who really promoted it heavily on the CTV network. The other male voice is Toller Cranston. And the woman, as you said, is Debbi Wilkes.

I remembered seeing this dance and liking the choice of lesser used pieces of music and fitting choreography. The costumes really didn’t bother me as they seemed like a more modern ballet look for its time. I must say that Toller Cranston is NOT the other commentator. It is the late Brian Pockar who often worked with Debbi Wilkes. I generally always liked his informative and mostly fair commentary.

 

[labgoat]

Johnny Esaw

The professional announcer and wonderful promoter of Canadian skating. His enthusiasm always came through. He always made sure the skaters and their communities got their recognition.

I must again point out that the other commentator was NOT Toller but Brian Pockar. Who?

Brian Pockar (CAN) - 1982 World Figure Skating Championships, Men's Long Program

Cophenhagen, DENMARK - 1982 World Figure Skating Championships, Men's Long Program - Brian Pockar of Canada placed 4th in the Long Program, but that was enou...

youtu.be

Johnny Esaw interviewing Brian Orser and Brian Pockar - so you can put a face to the voices.

Brian Pockar and Brian Orser interview 1982 Canadian Nationals

youtu.be

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I remembered seeing this dance and liking the choice of lesser used pieces of music and fitting choreography. The costumes really didn’t bother me as they seemed like a more modern ballet look for its time. I must say that Toller Cranston is NOT the other commentator. It is the late Brian Pockar who often worked with Debbi Wilkes. I generally always liked his informative and mostly fair commentary.

The professional announcer and wonderful promoter of Canadian skating. His enthusiasm always came through. He always made sure the skaters and their communities got their recognition.

I must again point out that the other commentator was NOT Toller but Brian Pockar. Who?

Brian Pockar (CAN) - 1982 World Figure Skating Championships, Men's Long Program

Cophenhagen, DENMARK - 1982 World Figure Skating Championships, Men's Long Program - Brian Pockar of Canada placed 4th in the Long Program, but that was enou...

youtu.be

Johnny Esaw interviewing Brian Orser and Brian Pockar - so you can put a face to the voices.

Brian Pockar and Brian Orser interview 1982 Canadian Nationals

youtu.be

Thank you for the correction. And, a particular thank you for the videos. It's always nice to be able to put faces to the voices. You can sometimes get a surprise. I remember when I saw a certain former British Eurosport commentator for the first time, and the shock of realising just how much he looked like his famous brother.

And in Brian Pockar's case, it's always nice to see former skaters stay in the sport in some capacity after their own competitive careers are over.

He was really good! I enjoyed that programme a lot. No wonder he got onto the podium at those Worlds! (Interesting that he was a place ahead of Orser in the final results, after finishing 2nd to Orser at Nationals).

So sad that he died so young.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[labgoat]

I once tried on a new costume that was supposed to be Mary, Queen of Scots, but looked more like Bawdy Tavern Wench. I refused to wear it until the neckline was raised several inches and covered over. But I may have been, um, somewhat more assertive than others

I love your stories they are very entertaining. thank you for sharing.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I love your stories they are very entertaining. thank you for sharing.

Grow up in a family of raconteurs and a few humour column writers and story-telling is second nature. I think it's genetic .

 

[NanaPat]

By the way, who are the commentators? One of the male commentators sounds like Scott Hamilton to me, but he wasn't long retired from competitive skating. I don't know when Scott started commentating, but 2 years seems too soon in my mind. Especially at a time when he was starting off on a professional career.

I think the male commentators were Toller Cranston (the one who gave opinions) and Johnny Esaw (the "facts" man who introduced the skaters, told us how many minutes and seconds of the dance were changed, and read the marks). I recognized Cranston's voice, and thought I recognized Esaw's. I found an article on Debbie Wilkes that said Esaw lasted through the 80s. Esaw was succeeded by Rod Black, who commented for CTV with Debbie and later with Tracy Wilson.

Interestingly enough, I didn't recognize Debbie Wilkes voice, though I thought I knew what she sounds like. Not that I am disputing that it was her; the timeline is correct and Toller clearly called her Debbie.

Added: I obviously hadn't read all the earlier answers, and I bow to those who thought it was Brian Pockar instead of Toller Cranston. Toller was a commentator for a while, though I thought he was CBC instead of CTV. He was highly critical of some Canadian skaters and didn't last long.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I think the male commentators were Toller Cranston (the one who gave opinions) and Johnny Esaw (the "facts" man who introduced the skaters, told us how many minutes and seconds of the dance were changed, and read the marks). I recognized Cranston's voice, and thought I recognized Esaw's. I found an article on Debbie Wilkes that said Esaw lasted through the 80s. Esaw was succeeded by Rod Black, who commented for CTV with Debbie and later with Tracy Wilson.

Interestingly enough, I didn't recognize Debbie Wilkes voice, though I thought I knew what she sounds like. Not that I am disputing that it was her; the timeline is correct and Toller clearly called her Debbie.

It was definitely Debbi's voice, and the voices of the two men. I used to tape all the competition broadcasts and replayed them many times. (As well as having met both Debbi and Toller in person, although I don't claim friendship with them, just brief connections in passing). Now I'm trying to remember, when CBC sometimes had the rights to air competitions, either after bidding against CTV or, as I think it worked out in some years, one network showed the domestic competitions and one the internationals, who the CBC network sports announcer was. I only remember Barb Underhill and Paul Martini doing the colour commentaries although I'm sure there were others, but I can't think of the name of the non-skater "network man". Johnny Esaw's/Rod Black's counterpart at CBC?

 

[NanaPat]

It was definitely Debbi's voice, and the voices of the two men. I used to tape all the competition broadcasts and replayed them many times. (As well as having met both Debbi and Toller in person, although I don't claim friendship with them, just brief connections in passing). Now I'm trying to remember, when CBC sometimes had the rights to air competitions, either after bidding against CTV or, as I think it worked out in some years, one network showed the domestic competitions and one the internationals, who the CBC network sports announcer was. I only remember Barb Underhill and Paul Martini doing the colour commentaries although I'm sure there were others, but I can't think of the name of the non-skater "network man". Johnny Esaw's/Rod Black's counterpart at CBC?

CBC didn't have an exact counterpart of Esaw/Black, who were more cheerleaders/very enthuseastic fans; the CBC "network men" were more professional and shorter-term, therefore more forgettable. Some CBC FS "network men" were Chris Cuthbert, Scott Russell, Andi Petrillo, and Brenda Irving.

For a long time, CTV had the TV rights to Canadians and Skate Canada International while CBC had the other international events. That became a problem for me as CTV cut down their coverage and shuttled it off to obscure cable TSNs like TSN3 and TSN4, while CBC streamed everything. Quite recently, CBC got the domestic events as well.

It was CTV (Tracy and Rod) at Skate Canada 2019 in Kelowna; we were sitting behind and above their "broadcast booth" and had a perfect view of the makeup people powdering Tracy before their cameras came on for the broadcast breaks.

This link shows CBC olympic commentators since 1992 (search for "figure skating").

And this is an article written by Johnny Esaw in 2002 about the history of figure skating broadcasting in Canada. In the early days, CTV had all the TV rights.

 

[Diana Delafield]

CBC didn't have an exact counterpart of Esaw/Black, who were more cheerleaders/very enthuseastic fans; the CBC "network men" were more professional and shorter-term, therefore more forgettable. Some CBC FS "network men" were Chris Cuthbert, Scott Russell, Andi Petrillo, and Brenda Irving.

For a long time, CTV had the TV rights to Canadians and Skate Canada International while CBC had the other international events. That became a problem for me as CTV cut down their coverage and shuttled it off to obscure cable TSNs like TSN3 and TSN4, while CBC streamed everything. Quite recently, CBC got the domestic events as well.

It was CTV (Tracy and Rod) at Skate Canada 2019 in Kelowna; we were sitting behind and above their "broadcast booth" and had a perfect view of the makeup people powdering Tracy before their cameras came on for the broadcast breaks.

This link shows CBC olympic commentators since 1992 (search for "figure skating").

And this is an article written by Johnny Esaw in 2002 about the history of figure skating broadcasting in Canada. In the early days, CTV had all the TV rights.

Scott Russell. That's whose face I was seeing. Although I remember the others also.

 

[labgoat]

Ted Reynolds is the guy making the comment for the Wynne/Druar Charleston OSP about skating it at 2 in the morning. He also butchered several names along the way such as Osborne Codson provoking Toller to apologize and strongly insist on correcting his saying he knew the man for x number of years and that his name was Osborn Colson. These comments were made sometime when Karen Preston was skating.

 

[labgoat]

Scott Russell. That's whose face I was seeing. Although I remember the others also.

I liked him and Chris Cuthbert also.

 

[labgoat]

2023 Lake Placid Ice Dance International - July 31 – Aug 2, 2023
Lake Placid, NY at the Olympic Center | Results | listed in skate order

Junior RD Group 1 1 Helena CARHART / Volodymyr HOROVYI USA 2 Charlotte CHUNG / Axel MACKENZIE CAN WD 3 Anya LAVROVA / Jonathan ROGERS USA Group 2 4 Caroline MULLEN / Brendan MULLEN USA 5 Kristina BLAND / Matthew SPERRY USA 6 Emma GOODSTADT / Christian BENNETT CAN 7 Sophia GOVER / Billy WILSON-FRENCH CAN Group 3 8 Elliana PEAL / Ethan PEAL USA | v2 9 Harlow STANLEY / Nikita SOSNENKO MEX 10 Leah NESET / Artem MARKELOV USA 11 Catharina GUEDES TIBAU / Cayden DAWSON BRA	Junior NQS RD 1 Isabella Hagan, All Year FSC/Shawn Hagan, All Year FSC 2 Amy Cui, SC of Boston/Kenny Eckert, IceWorks SC 3 Sophia Bushell, National Ice-Skating Association of UK Ltd/Anthony Steven Haddad, National Ice-Skating Association of UK Ltd 4 Michela Melillo, Connecticut Skating Academy/Simon Mintz, Hayden Recreation Centre FSC 5 Emily Renzi, SC of New York/William Lissauer, All Year FSC 6 Annelise Stapert, ION FSC/Maxim Korotcov, ION FSC 7 Olivia Ilin, Washington FSC/Dylan Cain, Washington FSC | v2 8 Jane Calhoun, Broadmoor SC/Daniil Veselukhin, Broadmoor SC 9 Yahli Pedersen, Ann Arbor FSC/Jeffrey Chen, Peninsula SC 10 Zoe Cialella, Arctic FSCDavid Goldshteyn, SC of Novi 11 Julia Epps, IceWorks SC/Blake Gilman, Peninsula SC	Senior RD Group 1 1 Lily HENSEN / Nathan LICKERS CAN 2 Diana DAVIS / Gleb SMOLKIN GEO | v2 3 Adrienne CARHART / Oleksandr KOLOSOVSKYI AZE 4 Livvy SHILLING / Leo BAETEN BEL Group 2 5 Mariia NOSOVITSKAYA / Michael NOSOVITSKY ISR 6 Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI ITA 7 Alyssa ROBINSON / Jacob PORTZ CAN | v2 8 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN USA | v2 Group 3 9 Sandrine GAUTHIER / Quentin THIEREN CAN 10 Lorraine McNAMARA / Anton SPIRIDONOV USA 11 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN | v2 12 Zoe LARSON / Andrii KAPRAN UKR 13 Elizabeth TKACHENKO / Alexei KILIAKOV ISR | v2 Group 4 WD 14 Emilea ZINGAS / Vadym KOLESNIK USA 15 Samantha RITTER / Daniel BRYKALOV AZE 16 Angela LING / Caleb WEIN USA 17 Eva PATE / Logan BYE USA | v2 18 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS CAN | v2	Senior NQS RD 1 Raffaella Koncius, Los Angeles FSC /Alexey Shchepetov, FSC of Southern California 2 Isabella Flores, Thunderbirds FSC/Ivan Desyatov, Thunderbirds FSC 3 Cara Murphy, Arctic FSC/Joshua Levitt, Pittsburgh FSC 4 Klara Kowar, Aspen SC/Thomas Schwappach, Denver Colorado FSC 5 Katarina Wolfkostin, Peninsula SC/Dimitry Tsarevski, Peninsula SC
Junior FD 1 Sophia GOVER / Billy WILSON-FRENCH CAN 2 Emma GOODSTADT / Christian BENNETT CAN 3 Kristina BLAND / Matthew SPERRY USA 4 Charlotte CHUNG / Axel MACKENZIE CAN 5 Catharina GUEDES TIBAU / Cayden DAWSON BRA 6 Helena CARHART / Volodymyr HOROVYI USA 7 Caroline MULLEN / Brendan MULLEN USA 8 Harlow STANLEY / Nikita SOSNENKO MEX 9 Leah NESET / Artem MARKELOV USA 10 Elliana PEAL / Ethan PEAL USA | v2	Junior NQS FD 1 Michela Melillo, Connecticut Skating Academy/Simon Mintz, Hayden Recreation Centre FSC 2 Isabella Hagan, All Year FSC/Shawn Hagan, All Year FSC 3 Zoe Cialella, Arctic FSCDavid Goldshteyn, SC of Novi 4 Jane Calhoun, Broadmoor SC/Daniil Veselukhin, Broadmoor SC 5 Julia Epps, IceWorks SC/Blake Gilman, Peninsula SC 6 Emily Renzi, SC of New York/William Lissauer, All Year FSC 7 Sophia Bushell, National Ice-Skating Association of UK Ltd/Anthony Steven Haddad, National Ice-Skating Association of UK Ltd 8 Olivia Ilin, Washington FSC/Dylan Cain, Washington FSC | v2 9 Yahli Pedersen, Ann Arbor FSC/Jeffrey Chen, Peninsula SC 10 Annelise Stapert, ION FSC/Maxim Korotcov, ION FSC 11 Amy Cui, SC of Boston/Kenny Eckert, IceWorks SC BONUS: Intermediate FD practice Sophia Kartashov/Nico Kartashov	Senior FD 1 Livvy SHILLING / Leo BAETEN BEL 2 Samantha RITTER / Daniel BRYKALOV AZE 3 Adrienne CARHART / Oleksandr KOLOSOVSKYI AZE 4 Sandrine GAUTHIER / Quentin THIEREN CAN 5 Lily HENSEN / Nathan LICKERS CAN 6 Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI ITA 7 Zoe LARSON / Andrii KAPRAN UKR 8 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN | v2 9 Alyssa ROBINSON / Jacob PORTZ CAN 10 Mariia NOSOVITSKAYA / Michael NOSOVITSKY ISR 11 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS CAN | v2 12 Angela LING / Caleb WEIN USA 13 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN USA | v2 14 Eva PATE / Logan BYE USA | v2 15 Lorraine McNAMARA / Anton SPIRIDONOV USA | v2 16 Diana DAVIS / Gleb SMOLKIN GEO | v2 17 Elizabeth TKACHENKO / Alexei KILIAKOV ISR | v2	Senior NQS FD 1 Klara Kowar, Aspen SC/Thomas Schwappach, Denver Colorado FSC 2 Cara Murphy, Arctic FSC/Joshua Levitt, Pittsburgh FSC 3 Katarina Wolfkostin, Peninsula SC/Dimitry Tsarevski, Peninsula SC 4 Isabella Flores, Thunderbirds FSC/Ivan Desyatov Thunderbirds FSC | v2 5 Raffaella Koncius, Los Angeles FSC /Alexey Shchepetov, FSC of Southern California

 

[Diana Delafield]

CBC didn't have an exact counterpart of Esaw/Black, who were more cheerleaders/very enthuseastic fans; the CBC "network men" were more professional and shorter-term, therefore more forgettable. Some CBC FS "network men" were Chris Cuthbert, Scott Russell, Andi Petrillo, and Brenda Irving.

For a long time, CTV had the TV rights to Canadians and Skate Canada International while CBC had the other international events. That became a problem for me as CTV cut down their coverage and shuttled it off to obscure cable TSNs like TSN3 and TSN4, while CBC streamed everything. Quite recently, CBC got the domestic events as well.

I think I was half-asleep when I replied yesterday. Your explanation is clearer than mine: CTV showed competitions held within Canada, CBC did the "away games" like Worlds and Olympics and the others that later became the Grand Prix events. There were a few years when i didn't get to see much skating, being unable, like you, to either understand or receive broadcasts. It's just recently that I've taken to watching everything on the computer instead.

It was CTV (Tracy and Rod) at Skate Canada 2019 in Kelowna; we were sitting behind and above their "broadcast booth" and had a perfect view of the makeup people powdering Tracy before their cameras came on for the broadcast breaks.

I went over to Victoria for Canadians in 1988 as a spectator, at the old Memorial Arena. My seat was at one end, with the broadcast booth and the K&C at the other end of the ice. During a break between events, I wandered around and ran into a number of competitors I had known but hadn't seen for awhile, having been retired for several years, and they insisted I come and sit in the seats set aside for them, just above the broadcast booth (in the days before tighter security with passes etc). When I got back to the hotel that evening and phoned my non-skating husband for my daily check-in, the first thing he said, suspiciously, was: "I thought you weren't competing anymore? The kids had the TV on and called me in to take a look because Mum was sitting with the other competitors!" A camera had panned across that end of the rink and there I was, sitting among the Ivanich family. Do you remember them in pairs? Four siblings skating as two pairs, John & Linda and Jamie & Laura. (Also skating together in the Fours event, which was only contested a few times at Canadians. I did Fours a few times myself, when we could find another pair to join with. It was fun; there were a few moves unique to Fours that I loved, like "passovers" with the two men skating one behind the other, the front man lifting one of the ladies in a platter lift and passing her over his head to the man behind him, then lifting the second lady himself.)

This link shows CBC olympic commentators since 1992 (search for "figure skating").

I wonder why they don't list the 1994 Winter Olympics. Or did I just miss that, scrolling through?

And this is an article written by Johnny Esaw in 2002 about the history of figure skating broadcasting in Canada. In the early days, CTV had all the TV rights.

I remember that. Johnny Esaw pretty much all by himself pushed figure skating into a major spectator sport on TV in Canada, he was such a fan

 

[Diana Delafield]

Ted Reynolds is the guy making the comment for the Wynne/Druar Charleston OSP about skating it at 2 in the morning. He also butchered several names along the way such as Osborne Codson provoking Toller to apologize and strongly insist on correcting his saying he knew the man for x number of years and that his name was Osborn Colson. These comments were made sometime when Karen Preston was skating.

Might have been a misprint on Ted's copy, or someone's bad handwriting, although I would have thought *everyone* knew Mr Colson! I even had a few lessons with him myself, on jump/throw landing technique and presentation, and he brought the same attention and encouragement to every pupil at every age and level of ability.

There was an entertaining mistake in -- the NY Times, I think? an American newspaper, at least -- in a piece about Paul Wylie at the 1992 Olympics. Presumably mishearing something over the phone, the reporter wrote that Paul's coaches were "Mary Scotvold and her cousin Evy". Assuming Evy was a female name and thus hearing "husband" as "cousin" .

 

[Diana Delafield]

I remembered seeing this dance and liking the choice of lesser used pieces of music and fitting choreography. The costumes really didn’t bother me as they seemed like a more modern ballet look for its time. I must say that Toller Cranston is NOT the other commentator. It is the late Brian Pockar who often worked with Debbi Wilkes. I generally always liked his informative and mostly fair commentary.

I really should wear my hearing aids all the time at home, even when it's just me and the cat here . The muffled version I heard sounded exactly like Toller, who was a commentator for years.