29th Practice incident discussion

[Lysambre]

It's simple, I'd promptly go to the organizers, tell them about Denis getting in the way of my practice, request that they usher Denis to the side or out of the rink, in fact, just give me the rink for 5 minutes with nobody in it just so I can achieve what I need to achieve, have a run through the way I needed it.

I can even request that they give Frank and Denis a warning about this. I solve my issue with Denis, and I don't have to tell the world.

"Request they usher Denis to the side or out of the rink"... and somehow, you think this wouldn't have made the headlines of every single newspaper in Japan???? How?

"Give me the rink for 5 minutes with nobody in"... Well, that is the supe extra Diva attitude I'm very glad we didn't actually see from Yuzu. And it would have also been splattered everywhere.

Now, tell me, how any of those things would have prevented Denis name to be as sullied as you seem to think it is? Because to me it sound like you made yourself the accusor, the judge and the jury within 5 minutes of the incidents happening. You're accusing with no proof, you're saying how thing are and you're applying that sentence of yours immediately.

How are you different from what the media's doing?

 

[qwertyskates]

"Request they usher Denis to the side or out of the rink"... and somehow, you think this wouldn't have made the headlines of every single newspaper in Japan???? How?

"Give me the rink for 5 minutes with nobody in"... Well, that is the supe extra Diva attitude I'm very glad we didn't actually see from Yuzu. And it would have also been splattered everywhere.

Now, tell me, how any of those things would have prevented Denis name to be as sullied as you seem to think it is? Because to me it sound like you made yourself the accusor, the judge and the jury within 5 minutes of the incidents happening. You're accusing with no proof, you're saying how thing are and you're applying that sentence of yours immediately.

How are you different from what the media's doing?

You seriously cannot tell the difference between quietly achieving what I need - practice without Denis in the rink, for 5 minutes, and dragging Denis' name through the mud by going public with unproven accusations and have my fanbase up in arms against Denis? I highly doubt that the press or anyone would bother in the former, in the latter however it is FULL PUBLICITY.

 

[Interspectator]

It's simple, I'd promptly go to the organizers, tell them about Denis getting in the way of my practice, request that they usher Denis to the side or out of the rink, in fact, just give me the rink for 5 minutes with nobody in it just so I can achieve what I need to achieve, have a run through the way I needed it.

I can even request that they give Frank and Denis a warning about this. I solve my issue with Denis, and I don't have to tell the world.

I hated that Yuna/Mao war but Yuna didn't conduct a press conference to accuse Japanese skaters, just her fans putting up youtube videos, so at least it's in the realm of gossip, not NEWS.

This is a sensible suggestion and so is Lysabres'. IF only they had our poise and control while trying to compete at a high level under pressure.
Is there an official at the practice rink who is responsible for this sort of thing and who can make that call? can you get extra time simply by asking for it? -Or does that take a lot of time and red-tape? Is there someone who 'referees' the practice sessions?

 

[Lysambre]

You seriously cannot tell the difference between quietly achieving what I need - practice without Denis in the rink, for 5 minutes, and dragging Denis' name through the mud by going public with unproven accusations and have my fanbase up in arms against Denis?

Are you aware that Yuzuru is being followed by the press of his country basically everywhere? Especially on the rinkside. You think that nobody would have seen Denis being escorted out of the rink?
You really think that skaters, no matter their world standing, can just *request* alone skating time?

Are YOU being serious? or are you just a troll?

Edited to add : Also, you think Denis would have had nothing to say to any of that??? He would have taken it quietly? Ah but no... but then HE would have been the victim, the victim of diva Hanyu... changes everything doesn't it?

 

[eta]

You seriously cannot tell the difference between quietly achieving what I need - practice without Denis in the rink, for 5 minutes, and dragging Denis' name through the mud by going public with unproven accusations and have my fanbase up in arms against Denis? I highly doubt that the press or anyone would bother in the former, in the latter however it is FULL PUBLICITY.

Er, that's not possible.

 

[hurrah]

I hated that Yuna/Mao war but Yuna didn't conduct a press conference to accuse Japanese skaters, just her fans putting up youtube videos, so at least it's in the realm of gossip, not NEWS.

Yuna made her accusation on Korean television!! And then of course, since the whole thing was so unsubstantiated and footage of her interview was so short, alot of her fans said that Yuna actually never accused 'Japanese skaters', it was only stupid Korean television station that made it seem like Yuna was accusing Japanese skaters.

Anyway, unfortunately for Mao, Yuna never conducted a press conference to eludicate if she was truly accusing 'Japanese skaters' of intruding her practice and if her accusation included Mao, or if it was only Korean television putting words into her mouth, which I thought was worse than her making a forthright accusation. The whole thing remained in the realm of Yuna shading the 'Japanese skaters'. It was rude of her to do that.

Anyway, the incident made no difference to Yuna's popularity in Korea and she is super-popular there. And the whole thing made no difference to 'Japanese skaters' reputation in Japan and within the skating world in general. So you see, if you truly believe in Denis, this whole incident is nothing to get anxious about.

 

[qwertyskates]

This is a sensible suggestion and so is Lysabres'. IF only they had our poise and control while trying to compete at a high level under pressure.
Is there an official at the practice rink who is responsible for this sort of thing and who can make that call? can you get extra time simply by asking for it? -Or does that take a lot of time and red-tape? Is there someone who 'referees' the practice sessions?

I won't assume that Denis has the poise, but I can get what I need by going to organizers, especially if I'm the GPF champion and highest scorer. They would be terrified that if they deny my reasonable request, any mishap in competition can be attributed to the lack of practice time and will no doubt let me have my 5 minutes if it's deemed fair.

The press statements, however, is a very wrong move, especially when it is a serious accusation against another skater that could ruin his career.

 

[Lysambre]

This is a sensible suggestion and so is Lysabres'. IF only they had our poise and control while trying to compete at a high level under pressure.
Is there an official at the practice rink who is responsible for this sort of thing and who can make that call? can you get extra time simply by asking for it? -Or does that take a lot of time and red-tape? Is there someone who 'referees' the practice sessions?

Ahahah, yeah, frankly, those boys should have been raised better than that .

And seriously, if this is even in the realm of possible thing, I totally want each and everyone of these sakter have their Diva moment and request 5 minutes of alone ice-time. That will be brilliant... for the spectators especially XD (but not for the officials, who will have to fill so much paperwork XD)

 

[huoyubai]

So the bus thing is real. What a diva lifestyle. No wonder he and his fans are demanding to get right of their ways now.

what happens to your faculty of understanding? it's Chinese organizers forwardly offer him the vehicle, not his demanding. he didn't take it firstly but the fans are too crazy, then he accepted. You know nothing about China, organizers in China can not take any risk at large event, they are responsible if competitors encounter accident outside the competition.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm serious! Is this actually a thing you can do? Can you actually ask for 5 minutes of time? or can you ask that a skater is escorted off the rink if they crowd you too much? Is there a person designated by the ISU to solve disputes like this in a timely manner? Because if not then just saying he can do it because so and so has the clout of being a high-ranked skater, that's far-fetched. Who would they tell?

 

[qwertyskates]

Are you aware that Yuzuru is being followed by the press of his country basically everywhere? Especially on the rinkside. You think that nobody would have seen Denis being escorted out of the rink?
You really think that skaters, no matter their world standing, can just *request* alone skating time?

Are YOU being serious? or are you just a troll?

Edited to add : Also, you think Denis would have had nothing to say to any of that??? He would have taken it quietly? Ah but no... but then HE would have been the victim, the victim of diva Hanyu... changes everything doesn't it?

Hanyu can also not make it a press thing, he can tell the press Denis can get so into his own practice he doesn't realize he gets into my space, so I'm requesting this but please there is no further ado, do not make a mountain of it, but of course instead he did the opposite and made it BIG.

If I can't get you to see the logic I'm presenting then let's end our conversation here. There's really no point.

I do not appreciate being insulted as a troll. I have been very decent, non personal.

Now let's see if Hanyu's fans will reciprocate.

It's too late to change events, let's see how this plays out.

 

[Yatagarasu]

You seriously cannot tell the difference between quietly achieving what I need - practice without Denis in the rink, for 5 minutes, and dragging Denis' name through the mud by going public with unproven accusations and have my fanbase up in arms against Denis? I highly doubt that the press or anyone would bother in the former, in the latter however it is FULL PUBLICITY.

And you keep turning things around, I still find it amusing. Skaters practice together. Yuzuru Hanyu does not need extra concessions, but more importnatly, it should not be tolerated that Denis Ten keeps causing incidents that would require the organizers to make extra concessions. If everyone else can handle it, why can't Ten?

Denis Ten cut off Yuzuru Hanyu at the practice, twice in the first day. There is evidence, I showed you one, I can show you the other.
Denis Ten admits this happened.
Denis Ten admits Yuzuru Hanyu tried talking to him privately about this.
Denis Ten says he doesn't see a problem.
Denis Ten's response to Yuzuru Hanyu is to be snide (small rink).

Denis Ten does the same thing again, third time in a row.

At what point does any of this become Denis Ten's responsibility?

I am genuinely curious because I want to know at what point does Denis Ten start being responsible for his actions? Or is he, as any mentally sound adult, responsible for what he does?

At that point, when all this has happened, the press were at the sight and the press are going to ask questions. Yuzuru Hanyu answering them may or may not be politically correct but is not in any way wrong. He has the right, after multiple incidents, to do so. He has the evidence. Openly speaking about his own safety is his right.

You keep insisting it is Yuzuru Hanyu's responsibility to mop up after Denis Ten and his actions. Here's a news flash - it isn't. It's Denis Ten's responsibility. The victim is in no way obligated to make sure that the person who keeps causing problems is somehow protected. This is madness.

Keep trying to make Ten the victim and absolving him of any blame. In that way you are exactly like him.

 

[Lysambre]

I'm serious! Is this actually a thing you can do? Can you actually ask for 5 minutes of time? or can you ask that a skater is escorted off the rink if they crowd you too much? Is there a person designated by the ISU to solve disputes like this in a timely manner? Because if not then just saying he can do it because so and so has the clout of being a high-ranked skater, that's far-fetched. Who would they tell?

I hope it is NOT a thing you can do ahahaha, OMG that would be the worst thing ever happening.

Straight up give every skater their 5 minutes and don't bother with group practices ever anymore, it'll be easier on the organisers if that ever enter the realms of possible ahahahah.

 

[qwertyskates]

I'm serious! Is this actually a thing you can do? Can you actually ask for 5 minutes of time? or can you ask that a skater is escorted off the rink if they crowd you too much? Is there a person designated by the ISU to solve disputes like this in a timely manner? Because if not then just saying he can do it because so and so has the clout of being a high-ranked skater, that's far-fetched. Who would they tell?

No, since his request is reasonable, and since Hanyu's performance is so high-profile and scrutinized, organizers are likely to act prudently. I'm sure they would have preferred SOLVING the problem than to let it become a potential flashpoint later if things go wrong for Hanyu.

I'm sure it's worth it than to have the press splash accusations against another skater.

I'm so sorry, I have a life. If no one can see the logic I'm stating then I can go on forever and it won't make any difference.

However, I'm just stunned that no one understand what "presumed innocent until proven guilty" means, and "libel". Please look the terms up.

You know guys, I'm seriously disappointed in most of you. It's UGLY, you are now accusing me and throwing all sorts of insults "troll", etc.

Mob justice?

Bye!!

 

[Silvia451]

Oh look, they are already fighting
As someone who loves them both, I hope we can all enjoy the competition tonight.

I tried to stop reading this thread, but something just brings me back even though I told myself 'ignore all this' :think:

 

[Lysambre]

Hanyu can also not make it a press thing, he can tell the press Denis can get so into his own practice he doesn't realize he gets into my space, so I'm requesting this but please there is no further ado, do not make a mountain of it, but of course instead he did the opposite and made it BIG.

If I can't get you to see the logic I'm presenting then let's end our conversation here. There's really no point.

I do not appreciate being insulted as a troll. I have been very decent, non personal.

Now let's see if Hanyu's fans will reciprocate.

It's too late to change events, let's see how this plays out.

I wasn't insulting you, I was actually seriously asking, because we apparently don't live on the same planet (your definition of logic and mine differ in ways I wasn't even aware are possible). So I had to make sure.

I apologise for making you think it was an insult (hint hint : see what I did right there?).

The fact that you don't realise that the press would have jumped all over this, no matter what Hanyu said (especially if he asked them to not make a big deal out of it), that's just mind bloggling to me. Either you don't know at all how things work in the real world, or you just don't want to know, because it makes things not go into the direction you want it to go.

Either way, I think you are right on one thing, the conversation is over.

 

[Interspectator]

No, since his request is reasonable, and since Hanyu's performance is so high-profile and scrutinized, organizers are likely to act prudently. I'm sure they would have preferred SOLVING the problem than to let it become a potential flashpoint later if things go wrong for Hanyu.

I'm sure it's worth it than to have the press splash accusations against another skater.

I'm so sorry, I have a life. If no one can see the logic I'm stating then I can go on forever and it won't make any difference.

However, I'm just stunned that no one understand what "presumed innocent until proven guilty" means, and "libel". Please look the terms up.

You know guys, I'm seriously disappointed in most of you. It's UGLY, you are now accusing me and throwing all sorts of insults "troll", etc.

Mob justice?

Bye!!

I understand where you are coming from. I too wish it didn't get to the media. I do not think Denis is guilty of sabotage and he is not being accused of it officially. What Hanyu said is "When I looked at the video, I thought it might be intentional, because Denis could see me as I was coming and started his spin anyway..." and also explained about the other times it had happened.
Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut to keep the peace. But what he said is what he believes.
Denis can still be presumed innocent, but to Hanyu, it looked intentional. Is it wrong for him to feel this way when the incident happened 3 times over a short period?

I wish he hadn't told the media about it. -But the media was already there at the rink and saw it happen in front of them. The cat was already out of the bag, so to speak.

Now, for all we know, they both have moved on and we are just spinning our wheels. I hope they both skate well.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Oh look, they are already fighting
As someone who loves them both, I hope we can all enjoy the competition tonight.

I tried to stop reading this thread, but something just brings me back even though I told myself 'ignore all this' :think:

Ah, PR machine has started working. Great, this means gag orders are out, pretty pictures are in and everything is going to be settled behind closed doors.

Unlike some, I never saw this as a personal issue so from my side I sure hope Ten has gotten the message and we don't see repeats of what has been happening. Safety matters, it isn't just an empty parole and while accidents will always happen, prevention is actually a thing that works. Good luck to everyone tonight.

 

[aschiutza]

Oh, come on. Denis would have known where Hanyu does his triple-axel. They'd been practicing together for the past few days. Denis is an elite figure skater. He knew.

Sorry,i was asking to KNOW how it is, not to imply something. So i don't get the "Oh, come on".

 

[whatif]

Well this is getting juicier with every day. I do wonder though why a skater of such level as Hanyu tends to get in so many "collisions/incidents" with other skaters on the ice. Perhaps there is some truth to what Carroll has to say about Yuzuru's attitude.