Duhamel/Radford new element: throw quad lutz

[Amei]

I think it is will be interesting for V/T because they are russian, olympic champions trying to get their second olympic gold medal at Korea with basically the same program.
Yuna is korean, olympic champion tried to get her second medal at Sochi with the same safe layout. V/T should to get the message and pray for koreans are not vengeful.
D/R are risking everything, it is not only they decided to do difficult elements and the next day they did it, they worked very hard while V/T were in their honey moon, so people saying they don´t should win not matter what are crazy, when the teams will be in the competition it is a lot more probable that D/R will have a fall with their difficult content than V/T forget look at each other during the program.

I think its a little premature to say they are going to compete in 2018 with the same program.

 

[Alba]

3-3-2? Wow, now that would be something. I know Ksenia's done 3-3 vids but haven't seen Fedor do them. Good luck to them on that though.

Here, both of them back in March: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2j299p_stolbova-klimov-3т-3т-2т_sport
They also intend to make a triple jump instead of the sbs 2A. I have to say I will miss that 2A from them.

 

[gravy]

Here, both of them back in March: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2j299p_stolbova-klimov-3т-3т-2т_sport
They also intend to make a triple jump instead of the sbs 2A. I have to say I will miss that 2A from them.

Ksenia's double axel is always :shocked:

 

[Alba]

Ksenia's double axel is always :shocked:

I know. I wonder if they can tranform that into a 3A in a future. Probably not though...:think:

 

[gmyers]

That would be very sad =( Hopefully either chinese or V/T will do the job - after all D/R are more like side by side skating than pair skating.

The judges are being clear though. They see d/r as nearly perfect in pcs. Chinese will have a pcs problem.

I think you're wrong. Even if they will be undefeated this season (which is a pretty big IF), Sui/Han will overtake them easily until 2018. I'm not so confident about russian pairs, although if V/T will master 4Tw, and S/K will do 3-3-2 and quad throw (which they already doing succesfully) I can easily see them as medal contenders.
And yes, I think Trankov deserved that shade, doesn't mean he's not right about some things

Eventually s/h height similarity will do them in before 2018. No evidence v/t or s/k can improve past current tech.

Hmm... I wouldn't, People said that about Patrick Chan too,
They're defintely on top of things but there's still a long way to go






I feel like it's time to call BS on all of these type comments,
By now it feels like a hollow mantra

Men were more equal and d/r so far far ahead of everyone in tech and judges love d/r so much and view them as almost perfect pair and models of perfect pair skating.

 

[MaxSwagg]

The judges are being clear though. They see d/r as nearly perfect in pcs. Chinese will have a pcs problem.



Eventually s/h height similarity will do them in before 2018. No evidence v/t or s/k can improve past current tech.



Men were more equal and d/r so far far ahead of everyone in tech and judges love d/r so much and view them as almost perfect pair and models of perfect pair skating.

...you're absolutely delusional.

 

[gmyers]

...you're absolutely delusional.

I don't know about what exactly but my response is - explain d/r being world champions- Tes and pcs.

 

[Mathman]

At 2015 worlds the judges gave Sui and Han higher PCSs than Duhamel and Radford in the LP, and they gave Pang and Tog higher PCSs in the SP. At 2014 worlds, not only did S&S get higher PCSs than D&R, but so did Stobova and Klimov.

I think it is hard to make the case that judges are completely sold on D&R's components.

 

[gmyers]

Pang /tong are now retired so no one now is likely to beat them in pcs and s/h just fractionally beat them in TES. D/R only team that combines both hardest tech and great pcs. If a 3/3/2 is done by s/k is that enough against two quads? Will s/k even show ability to do 3/3/2 in a competion like d/r have proven quads? S/k didnt beat d/r in gpf. They had no pcs unbeatable advantage. S/s no longer are a team. V/t are focusing on their marriage and skating is a hobby.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Pang /tong are now retired so no one now is likely to beat them in pcs and s/h just fractionally beat them in TES. D/R only team that combines both hardest tech and great pcs. If a 3/3/2 is done by s/k is that enough against two quads? Will s/k even show ability to do 3/3/2 in a competion like d/r have proven quads? S/k didnt beat d/r in gpf. They had no pcs unbeatable advantage. S/s no longer are a team. V/t are focusing on their marriage and skating is a hobby.

Um, D/R shouldn't have any component higher than 8.5, and that's at their best. In fact, they've actually regressed in several components. They've realized that they're incapable of being legitimate pairs skaters so they've had to resort to adding more "tricks." They aren't concerned with refinement and quality at all. If their skating is now the standard, what a sad, sad day for pairs skating because it's just not good. :no:

 

[gmyers]

Um, D/R shouldn't have any component higher than 8.5, and that's at their best. In fact, they've actually regressed in several components. They've realized that they're incapable of being legitimate pairs skaters so they've had to resort to adding more "tricks." They aren't concerned with refinement and quality at all. If their skating is now the standard, what a sad, sad day for pairs skating because it's just not good. :no:

But what can be done about it? They are past 8.5 and headed for 9.5.

 

[Pika]

Um, D/R shouldn't have any component higher than 8.5, and that's at their best. In fact, they've actually regressed in several components. They've realized that they're incapable of being legitimate pairs skaters so they've had to resort to adding more "tricks." They aren't concerned with refinement and quality at all. If their skating is now the standard, what a sad, sad day for pairs skating because it's just not good. :no:

Excuse me, but isn't it a bit harsh, even mean, to say that top skaters don't care about improving, about the quality of what they want to show ? It's like denying all the work they've done since years, and that they keep doing.
And what are legitimate pair skaters ? I don't think they became world champs by accident or coincidence.

 

[Mathman]

Don't let gmyers get your goat, MAXswagg. Gmyers is just trolling, trying to see if he can goad anyone into saying Duhamel and Radford are terrible, they win only because the Canadian federation has the judges in their pockets, etc.

 

[whatif]

Speaking of Sue/Han
http://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034:9db10a645a7456bc56c6100dd61a372d

 

[Skater Boy]

3-3-2? Wow, now that would be something. I know Ksenia's done 3-3 vids but haven't seen Fedor do them. Good luck to them on that though.

What is said to the media and what is done in competition is very different often.

 

[Skater Boy]

V/T used to do 3FTh but they stopped because she kept get of injured. Now they are doing it, as well as 3S+2T+2T. They also were successfully doing a 4Tw before his surgery. It's not that D/R are increasing difficulty, but that they're merely doing it to compensate for their lack of willingness of desire to improve on fundamentals of pairs skating. She needs to improve her lift positions, they telegraph almost everything, Duhamel has a completely unrefined look...they come off like they're two friends who just decided to have a go at it and never had the insight to improve these things. Their tricks are sometimes good but everything else leaves much to be desired. I just don't understand why they don't care.

The PCS gap between the two pairs is absolutely fair. D/R are 10 points less than V/T. They shouldn't be getting components higher than in the 8s, and those telegraphed Lutzes and throws shouldn't get more than +1s. It's time for people to stop overlooking this things. It pains me that we've gone from S/S, V/T, and P/T to this.

I will chime in my two bits.

1. We are a very opinionated group including myself. The issue of connectedness and artistry is in the eye of the beholder. First, I don't think any of the current crop of pairs team have the magic of the Protopopovs or Gordeeva and Grinkov in respect to connection

2. I think the current scoring system which really doesn't focus as much on comparing skaters like 6.0 where they get put into oridinals should logically favour the skating style of Duhamel and Radford for artistic score where your artistry may not be liked but if well done can and should score well. Years ago there was a powerful team I saw from you tube - ROdina and Zaitzev ? and well their artistry was pure power - maybe not lovey dovey but that isn't the only form of art - I guess arguably

3. the point system arguably holds back d and r as quads are really not acknowledged under the current scoring system (throws). if it were a single jump there would be a far greater reward.

4. My guess at the next olympics, and I agree V and T, K and s from russia may not skate that long - maybe even S and K too from Russia that we will be looking at 3 Chinese teams (who I find a bit generic - meaning it seems so many will nice sort of seem like copies of s and z then P and T and so on, s and k from the US and maybe another pair, D and R and a second Canadian pair, the Italians and maybe Savchenko and her partner all fighting for top ten.

5. I do think the russians will have to up the technical ante or risk losing points artistically as well

6. Lots of chat about harder elements from many teams but let's see it

 

[4everchan]

Totally

exactly.

Also, kinda rude to say duhamel and radford don't love each other on the ice and off the ice. It's not romantic love but you get a very strong sense of friendship between them -- certainly more than other teams who portray love/passion/connection in their programs and then butt heads with each other afterwards. You would never see meagan glare at eric the way ksenia did to fedor at euros or wenjing did to cong at nhk.

 

[whatif]

What is said to the media and what is done in competition is very different often.

I don't think S/K could be accused of unsubstantiated claims, like some. They have very good basics and jumping technique to make things work. they just never bothered upping it as they have been caught up in unexpected success with good luck of others underperforming, specifically Chinese, K/S and S/S pre and during Olympic season.

 

[gmyers]

Don't let gmyers get your goat, MAXswagg. Gmyers is just trolling, trying to see if he can goad anyone into saying Duhamel and Radford are terrible, they win only because the Canadian federation has the judges in their pockets, etc.

Based on what? D/r are world champs not just because of tech but amazing pcs. The pcs speaks for itself. Judges love them.

 

[aromaticchicken]

Based on what? D/r are world champs not just because of tech but amazing pcs. The pcs speaks for itself. Judges love them.

The judges also gave Liza tuk really high pcs this year. Do we think they will continue to do so and score her above Mao Asada?

I think it is a similar situation here with d/r with v/t returning.