Iconic jump combination

[andromache]

I disagree, I read it as unique. As for "who did it the best", that will always be subjective. I argue strongly against Yuna having the best 3Lz-3T, she doesn't even have the best 3Lz among the ladies, and there are plenty of men I can name who have a better combo. Patrick with the best 4T-3T?! You're actually joking, right?

Fine, they don't have to objectively be the best (poor choice of words on my part, should've assumed someone would try to argue lol), but it's something that they are known for doing well and doing it with relative consistency. I can't think of a lady who is more well known for her spectacular 3Ltz-3T than Yuna Kim.

And I really love Patrick's 4T-3T. It's a thing of beauty. Agree to disagree?

It's common enough among men now, and the elite top guys who preceded Patrick could also do it, but during Patrick's years of dominance 2011-2014, it was the best around. Plus, other guys with a 4T-3T are more well-known for other things than their 4T-3T, imo. Yuzuru has the 3A, Javi has the 4S, Shoma the 4F, Boyang the 4Ltz, etc. I can't remember who among those guys actually does do a 4T-3T, actually.

 

[jenaj]

These were great (with the exception of Medvedeva and especially Radionova) but I wouldn't say those people did them the "best."

Who did a better 3L-3T (or 3F-3T) than Kim?

 

[MaxSwagg]

Who did a better 3L-3T (or 3F-3T) than Kim?

Well considering she had a slight (in some instances not so slight) toe hammer. Sure, she got great height and had great speed into and out of it, but no transitions. It's comparable to others who have done it.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Fine, they don't have to objectively be the best (poor choice of words on my part, should've assumed someone would try to argue lol), but it's something that they are known for doing well and doing it with relative consistency. I can't think of a lady who is more well known for her spectacular 3Ltz-3T than Yuna Kim.

And I really love Patrick's 4T-3T. It's a thing of beauty. Agree to disagree?

It's common enough among men now, and the elite top guys who preceded Patrick could also do it, but during Patrick's years of dominance 2011-2014, it was the best around. Plus, other guys with a 4T-3T are more well-known for other things than their 4T-3T, imo. Yuzuru has the 3A, Javi has the 4S, Shoma the 4F, Boyang the 4Ltz, etc. I can't remember who among those guys actually does do a 4T-3T, actually.

Hanyu does 4T+3T now (with more effortlessness than Patrick, imo). But I agree. During the time, Patrick was known for that element.

 

[jenaj]

Well considering she had a slight (in some instances not so slight) toe hammer. Sure, she got great height and had great speed into and out of it, but no transitions. It's comparable to others who have done it.

I don't consider transitions part of the jump. I think her's are the best--among the ladies, at least. Some men are better.

 

[4everchan]

And I really love Patrick's 4T-3T. It's a thing of beauty.

I agree with you. The airtime and position he gets on his 4T-3T is flawless. Nobody else gets that. It's just a gorgeous jump. I also agree with you that this is the combo that brought him success and perhaps defines his jumping skills as other skaters are known for other combinations/jumps.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

For me...I thought Adian's 4t-3t at Cup of Russia was iconic. I don't even think anyone really knew he was doing it and then *Whabam* ...there ya go. Plus it was pretty well done! It wasn't emphatic or anything....just really casual and calm.

https://youtu.be/mTA-LmbBqZU?t=50s

It's one of the things that really made me like him. I'm not sure what everyone else thinks is necessary to make a jump "iconic" but to me it's memorable moments that stick out in my mind when I'm trying to recall a season. All of the skaters are so good that anyone can have them.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Here's the EMPRESS doing 2A-1Lo-3Sal 30 years ago
https://youtu.be/T4oZ-Judbac?t=11

I actually find the entrance into the spin much more impressive than the jump combo here.

 

[plushyfan]

Patrick's 4+3 was beautiful but I don't know a reason why it is iconoc....Many skaters landed in it in the past and in recent years. I believe Patrick's edgework is iconic! If the FS fans will talk about Patrick in the future, they will remember his edges..I'm sure.

Do you remember?

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/06/16/80059990/


"After three weeks of voting, including a final round that pinned him against some of the most iconic figures in the sport, Plushenko has won icenetwork's "It's Your Move" contest for his legendary quad combinations.

The feat was not easy. Of the more than 750,000 votes cast in the final round, 25 percent of fans chose Plushenko, helping the Russian hold off Yu-Na Kim's 'Yu-Na camel,' which took home 23 percent of the vote. Plushenko and Kim were the unofficial co-favorites entering the final week of voting after each tallied large waves of support in the opening round of the contest.

The victory is a lasting testament to Plushenko's pioneering of the quad combination, which he championed throughout his career. Despite the sheer difficulty of combining multiple jumps to a quad, he attempted -- and, more often than not, landed -- the moves on the grandest of stages."


http://mlb.mlb.com/icenetwork/its-your-move-results.jsp

 

[4everchan]

i think semantics pose indeed a problem... what is an iconic jump combo?

in Plushy's time, he was the master of the 4t-3t and we could say that it's his move... but now, it's a pretty common move and yes, some of us think that Patrick's version is more aesthetically pleasing by its lines and air position. So why can we not say, if some of us believe Patrick has the best version, that it is iconic? Simply because it's super common... so i agree with you and others who are debating what iconic means here... is it a textbook flawless version of a common combo, is it a combo that was unique in a certain period of time and is still pretty rare, like Midori Ito 3A-2T or is it something quirky as Jill Trenary's one foot axel-3S?

I think that we are just being really loose about what iconic means here.... we are just stating combos that we liked a lot or that we thought were pretty cool when they happened... as a matter of fact, nowadays, there is pretty much only one combo that is extremely rare right now 4Lz-3T and I'd say that right now, Jin has a hold on the iconic combo

I agree with you though... Plushy will be remembered for his 4T combos.... Patrick will be remembered for his edgework and powerful gliding on the ice... Lambiel had an okay 4T but all we talk about now for him, and he is relatively close in our memories are his gorgeous spins.... they were iconic...

What do we talk about for Daisuke : his performance and interpretation... we would not mention any combo for him... yet he was a strong all around skater...

What will we talk about for Hanyu? Probably the transitions into the 3A and 4S... but he is not done surprising us... and we may end up talking about his 4Loop... or who knows what

It's late... I am making this post longer than it should but in any case, I do agree with you here... however, the whole thread, if it does feature iconic combos, also includes posts that would be closer to "what is your favourite combo" or "who does this combo best"

finally, one could say that the 4t-3t combo is iconic for patrick because that is how he went from a contender to the world podium to 3 times world champion... when he included that combo in his programs, he became more than just the edge guy... he became the skater who had the quads and yet had superior skating skill... and that paved the way to other skaters who followed his path, and even went further in terms of technical content.... it did change the sport in an important way.... to be a devil's advocate, if Patrick had not brought in the 4t-3t, he definitely would not have won world championships, and yes, in that case, he would only be remembered as Mr Edgework... but that combo defined his career... and led the way to what is skating today.... so we can see it as a defining move for Patrick, not only for its quality of execution but for how it shaped his career and brought a generation of skaters with quads who actually work very hard on skating skills...

Patrick's 4+3 was beautiful but I don't know a reason why it is iconoc....Many skaters landed in it in the past and in recent years. I believe Patrick's edgework is iconic! If the FS fans will talk about Patrick in the future, they will remember his edges..I'm sure.

Do you remember?

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/06/16/80059990/


"After three weeks of voting, including a final round that pinned him against some of the most iconic figures in the sport, Plushenko has won icenetwork's "It's Your Move" contest for his legendary quad combinations.

The feat was not easy. Of the more than 750,000 votes cast in the final round, 25 percent of fans chose Plushenko, helping the Russian hold off Yu-Na Kim's 'Yu-Na camel,' which took home 23 percent of the vote. Plushenko and Kim were the unofficial co-favorites entering the final week of voting after each tallied large waves of support in the opening round of the contest.

The victory is a lasting testament to Plushenko's pioneering of the quad combination, which he championed throughout his career. Despite the sheer difficulty of combining multiple jumps to a quad, he attempted -- and, more often than not, landed -- the moves on the grandest of stages."


http://mlb.mlb.com/icenetwork/its-your-move-results.jsp

 

[plushyfan]

i think semantics pose indeed a problem... what is an iconic jump combo?

hmmmm... I think you are right.

 

[iamchrislao]

Surya Bonaly: back flip to a triple salchow. It's a jump combo! I swear! She does "jump" when backflipping


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVVy25e-vk

 

[MiRé]

I disagree, I read it as unique. As for "who did it the best", that will always be subjective. I argue strongly against Yuna having the best 3Lz-3T, she doesn't even have the best 3Lz among the ladies, and there are plenty of men I can name who have a better combo. Patrick with the best 4T-3T?! You're actually joking, right?

You do know Yuna was the only one who landed 3lz3t clean in the 2010 Olympics? Who are these glorious ladies youre talking about? Yourself :sarcasm:?

 

[MaxSwagg]

You do know Yuna was the only one who landed 3lz3t clean in the 2010 Olympics? Who are these glorious ladies youre talking about? Yourself :sarcasm:?

That is true. But her fans act like the jump is perfect in every way. It isn't.

 

[Crossover]

That is true. But her fans act like the jump is perfect in every way. It isn't.

Not as much as your relentless devotion for your female idol's flawed jumps.

EDIT: clarification for MaxSwagg.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Not as much as your relentless devotion for your idol's flawed jumps.

Lol Who? Dai? I never said he had flawless jumps. Hanyu is the best jumper we've ever had...

 

[Crossover]

Lol Who? Dai? I never said he had flawless jumps. Hanyu is the best jumper we've ever had...

Daisuke Takahashi was a true artist even with the never-uncalled flutz and incomplete 4T. As for Hanyu, please don't assume that your assessment can be equally applied to others. I'm not "we".

 

[MaxSwagg]

Daisuke Takahashi was a true artist even with the never-uncalled flutz and incomplete 4T. As for Hanyu, please don't assume that your assessment can be equally applied to others. I'm not "we".

Oh, so you're talking about Mao? Again, I never said her jumps were flawless. Lol Unlike some, I acknowledge the flaws of my favorites. As for Hanyu, that's not an unusual or unreasonable statement to make.

 

[Crossover]

Oh, so you're talking about Mao? Again, I never said her jumps were flawless. Lol Unlike some, I acknowledge the flaws of my favorites. As for Hanyu, that's not an unusual or unreasonable statement to make.

Triple LOL to the each sentence in your post. Didn't you catch that Daisuke is one of my favorites? The last part is just your wishful thinking.

When someone claims that Mao or Hanyu's or other skaters' certain jump combos are "iconic" in this thread, I haven't said a word even though I strongly disagree with many of such arguments because something "iconic" can be different from people to people. Besides, it is so hilarious to witness always "same old people" to rush into saying about Yuna than her fans whenever someone starts mentioning her. That kind of behaviors do not give a good image to your favorites at all. Why can't you just spend your time in praising your favorites instead? You and I have talked about that before.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Triple LOL to the each sentence in your post. Didn't you catch that Daisuke is one of my favorites? The last part is just your wishful thinking.

Whenever someone claims that Mao or Hanyu's or other skaters' certain jump layouts "iconic" in this thread, I haven't said a word even though I've strongly disagreed with such arguments because something "iconic" can be different from people to people. It is so hilarious to witness always "same old people" to rush into saying about Yuna than her fans whenever someone starts mentioning her. That kind of behaviors do not give a good image to your favorites at all. Why can't you just spend your time in praising your favorites instead? You and I have talked about that before.

"Some" wasn't referring to you. And yes, I caught that re Dai. I disagree about the last comment. Lol

And yes. I agree. I was getting off topic but most of the "iconic" elements people have mentioned I wouldn't call "iconic" either.