Iconic jump combination

[Crossover]

"Some" wasn't referring to you. And yes, I caught that re Dai. I disagree about the last comment. Lol

And yes. I agree. I was getting off topic but most of the "iconic" elements people have mentioned I wouldn't call "iconic" either.

OK. I think the topic of the tread is supposed to brush up memories on the past talented skaters or to celebrate our favorites' specialties. I think we're done here. Let's enjoy the long off-season.

 

[yhmafan]

Oh, Please don’t include Mao and Hanyu into the fan war. They have nothing to do with that :confused2:

 

[gsyzf]

Who did a better 3L-3T (or 3F-3T) than Kim?

Polina TSURSKAYA (IMO at least).

Gracie Gold, Wakaba Higuchi, Yuka Nagai and maybe some other girls too (I didn't check all the girls) also have comparable 3lz-3t to Yuna's. Jump combos with no additional difficulty are comparable. Different fans have different taste. But jumps with additional difficulty like arm variation, delayed rotation, preceding steps and transitions are harder to execute than jumps with no additional difficulty. If a skater can execute jumps with additional difficulty at high quality, then he/she shows she has better skill than someone who execute only standard jumps.

Polina's 3lz-3t has delayed rotation. IMO, her 3lz-3t is better than other girls who only did standard 3lz-3t.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jump combos with no additional difficulty are comparable. Different fans have different taste. But jumps with additional difficulty like arm variation, delayed rotation, preceding steps and transitions are harder to execute than jumps with no additional difficulty. If a skater can execute jumps with additional difficulty at high quality, then he/she shows she has better skill than someone who execute only standard jumps.

Not really. It's a different skill set. People who can do arm variations and difficult entrances can't necessarily jump huge, which is the most difficult thing of all (unless we're talking about super difficult entrances like a Triple Salchow directly out of a spin or something). Jumping smaller you can throw an arm over your head. Still difficult but not as much. Less effort is being expended by the skater when they jump smaller and there's less force they have to control.

Polina TSURSKAYA cheats her toeloops, yet another Russian girl who does 2.25 rotations as their standard Triple Toe. Her lutz is very good but the overall size of her combo and flow out does not match the best. She shouldn't even be in consideration for having one of the best ever.

 

[Meoima]

Polina TSURSKAYA cheats her toeloops, yet another Russian girl who does 2.25 rotations as their standard Triple Toe. Her lutz is very good but the overall size of her combo and flow out does not match the best. She shouldn't even be in consideration for having one of the best ever.

You're strict with Polina then why you give some certains skater who cheat the take off full credit for their excessive pre-rotation?

 

[Marin]

You're strict with Polina then why you give some certains skater who cheat the take off full credit for their exessive pre-rotation?

I am just puzzled how can someone criticize Polina's and/any Russian girl's jumps while defending Uno and his technique.

Shoma's 3.25 F is apparently 4F, and now it seems Polina has "2.25 toeloop" :handw:

 

[Blades of Passion]

You're strict with Polina then why you give some certains skater who cheat the take off full credit for their excessive pre-rotation?

I don't? Not sure what you're talking about but it seems you have a skater in mind so feel free to name them.

Anyway, this new-age technique on toeloops is very annoying but you're allowed to cheat 1/4 turn. So it's really just a small -GOE consideration, unless they are also not landing totally backwards after cheating the entrance.

 

[Meoima]

I don't? Not sure what you're talking about but it seems you have a skater in mind so feel free to name them.

Anyway, this new-age technique on toeloops is very annoying but you're allowed to cheat 1/4 turn. So it's really just a small -GOE consideration, unless they are also not landing totally backwards after cheating the entrance.

1/4 turn in the take off and 1/4 turn in the landing you mean? but some case it's between 1/2 and 3/4 cheat in the take off, sometimes it's 3/4 and 4/4 cheat. It is not just annoying. It is unfair.

 

[Blades of Passion]

1/4 turn in the take off and 1/4 turn in the landing you mean?

No I just meant 1/4 turn in total, wherever that amount is coming from. The common new-age technique is for people to pull around an extra 1/4 turn on the toeloop entrance. These little Russian girls are consistently landing totally "backwards" after cheating the entrance, so it's not something that can be given an underrotation call itself. However, it's not ideal technique, and if they don't land perfectly backwards then they should get the underrotation call. That isn't usually happening, though, since pre-rotations are often not being monitored closely enough.

 

[Meoima]

No I just meant 1/4 turn in total, wherever that amount is coming from. The common new-age technique is for people to pull around an extra 1/4 turn on the toeloop entrance. These little Russian girls are consistently landing totally "backwards" after cheating the entrance, so it's not something that can be given an underrotation call itself. However, it's not ideal technique, and if they don't land perfectly backwards then they should get the underrotation call. That isn't usually happening, though, since pre-rotations are often not being monitored closely enough.

Have you heard of any infor that pre-rotation will be monitored more closely?

 

[Bartek]

No I just meant 1/4 turn in total, wherever that amount is coming from. The common new-age technique is for people to pull around an extra 1/4 turn on the toeloop entrance. These little Russian girls are consistently landing totally "backwards" after cheating the entrance, so it's not something that can be given an underrotation call itself. However, it's not ideal technique, and if they don't land perfectly backwards then they should get the underrotation call. That isn't usually happening, though, since pre-rotations are often not being monitored closely enough.

Are pre-rotations monitored at all? It seems to me that technical panels do not bat an eyelid.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Are pre-rotations monitored at all? It seems to me that technical panels do not bat an eyelid.

The panels are not equipped to make accurate judgments on close calls for the take-off because they don't have slow motion replay of that. It's very hard to see in real time if the skater rotates quickly.

 

[mrrice]

The panels are not equipped to make accurate judgments on close calls for the take-off because they don't have slow motion replay of that. It's very hard to see in real time if the skater rotates quickly.

Are there examples of pre-rotations? I know I've asked this question before but, I still don't remember being bothered by it. I've heard Polina Edmonds name mentioned but, I don't remember being bothered by her jumps. It was her lack of speed that I didn't care for. That, and that BOW!!!!!

 

[creaturelover]

Are there examples of pre-rotations? I know I've asked this question before but, I still don't remember being bothered by it. I've heard Polina Edmonds name mentioned but, I don't remember being bothered by her jumps. It was her lack of speed that I didn't care for. That, and that BOW!!!!!

I think Satoko Miyahara's 3F suffers from quite a bit pre-rotation - someone correct me if I am wrong

 

[Blades of Passion]

The panels are not equipped to make accurate judgments on close calls for the take-off because they don't have slow motion replay of that.

Yes they do. It's right there in front of them, the replay operator just has to queue it up.

 

[jenaj]

Polina TSURSKAYA (IMO at least).

Gracie Gold, Wakaba Higuchi, Yuka Nagai and maybe some other girls too (I didn't check all the girls) also have comparable 3lz-3t to Yuna's. Jump combos with no additional difficulty are comparable. Different fans have different taste. But jumps with additional difficulty like arm variation, delayed rotation, preceding steps and transitions are harder to execute than jumps with no additional difficulty. If a skater can execute jumps with additional difficulty at high quality, then he/she shows she has better skill than someone who execute only standard jumps.

Polina's 3lz-3t has delayed rotation. IMO, her 3lz-3t is better than other girls who only did standard 3lz-3t.

I haven't seen Tsurkaya or the other juniors you mention. Let's see how the do when they move up. Gracie's jumps--when she does them-- are very nice but not in Kim's league. I am not a Kim fan by any means. I think she is overrated on artistry. Also her lack of a triple loop, her weak spirals and ugly layback take her out of the best of the best in my opinion. But there is also no denying the beauty of her 3-3 and her 3-lutz. And even better, she was amazingly consistent with those jumps. I put her 2nd behind only Midori Ito in jumping.

 

[FlattFan]

Kim owns that 3lutz-3toe combo. No one does it with ease and explosiveness and height and speed.
In recent memory, maybe only Vivian Le comes close. The rest are not good enough.

 

[Bartek]

Kim owns that 3lutz-3toe combo. No one does it with ease and explosiveness and height and speed.
In recent memory, maybe only Vivian Le comes close. The rest are not good enough.

Tuktamysheva's was as good.

 

[creaturelover]

Tuktamysheva's was as good.

Liza never had the consistency of Yuna though, and this is coming from a Liza fan

 

[4everchan]

and point proven : she opted to do the 3T-3T in her SP...

Liza never had the consistency of Yuna though, and this is coming from a Liza fan