All right, I edited the OP to make it clear that I do not.So you want a big age gap, with male skaters having a long line of female partners.
All right, I edited the OP to make it clear that I do not.So you want a big age gap, with male skaters having a long line of female partners.
Actually, I would appreciate if anybody with the appropriate knowledge would explain the reason behind this difference between single and pair requirements. You already mentioned that the most challenging part for youngsters are lifts and throws so this is understandable that the requirements are much lower. But why jumps? (I personally mentioned jumps because @4everchan mentioned jumps. No other reason behind that.)They're not talking specifically about pairs, but also about singles skaters.
When 9/10-year olds are doing triple jumps, a 15-year-old doing triple throws is not the issue.
For a long time (and even to some extent today), the skaters who went into pairs were skaters who struggled with jumps even as singles skaters. This holds true even in countries with deep singles fields like Russia - It's just that there a "weaker" jumper can possibly still do some of the more difficult triples semi-consistently.Actually, I would appreciate if anybody with the appropriate knowledge would explain the reason behind this difference between single and pair requirements. You already mentioned that the most challenging part for youngsters are lifts and throws so this is understandable that the requirements are much lower. But why jumps? (I personally mentioned jumps because @4everchan mentioned jumps. No other reason behind that.)
This sounds reasonable indeed.In novices, jumps are even more limited because a pairs program is a lot for in some cases very young skaters, a 10-year-old doing pairs in novices is going to struggle enough with doing a 2A cleanly in a full program without risking the safety of the other elements, triples would just make it worse.
If you require partners to be within 2 years of each other, it will be very difficult to form pairs locally at these younger ages when traveling thousands of miles and searching for partners in different countries is not appropriate.This sounds reasonable indeed.
So, what would you say about this suggestion: there is no Junior Pairs category, the existing Novice Pairs category is extended to 17 years and split in 4 (instead of 2) subcategories: Basic Novice 10-12yo, Basic Novice Plus 12-14yo, Advanced Novice 14-16yo and Advance Novice Plus 16-18yo. And then, tripple jumps are allowed for Advanced Novice Plus category . - ?
No, I require (I suggest such requirement as a point of discussion, to be precise ) them to be within 1 year within each other; to be classmates for example. As you already noticed, this is exactly what the overlaps suggest.If you require partners to be within 2 years of each other,
Technically, it could be called "Junior". But wouldn't it be confusing since for singles and Ice Dance "Junior" would mean something different?And there's no reason for the level that you're calling "Advanced Novice Plus" not to just be called "Junior."
Well, why not? After all, if skaters are good at jumping, they can compete in singles parallel to their pair skating (as did Murakami/Moriguchi) and use their jumping skills in pair skating later.Finally, keep in mind that the most dangerous elements in pair skating are not jumps, but rather lifts including twist lifts. So it would be more important to focus on an appropriate developmental pathway for those elements before limiting the jumps.
Or, realistically, maybe there is only one teenage male skater in her whole small country who is willing to try pairs.Well, this young lady should certainly pick the option which is the best for her development and then try to arrange the conditions as close to this option as it is realistically possible.
Completely unrealistic.No, I require (I suggest such requirement as a point of discussion, to be precise ) them to be within 1 year within each other; to be classmates for example. As you already noticed, this is exactly what the overlaps suggest.
Already there are differences in the age limits for male pair and dance partners than there are for singles.Technically, it could be called "Junior". But wouldn't it be confusing since for singles and Ice Dance "Junior" would mean something different?
Then why does it work for ice dancers?Completely unrealistic.
And also because the skills needed for ice dancing are more about matching the level of skating skill. Yes, there are lifts, but they're less about feats of strength than in pairs and less important to the point values than the skating skill moves.Then why does it work for ice dancers?
The junior dance teams tend to be about the same age and make smooth transition to seniors. This is because, when forming a team, they think about the future and in future a smooth transition to seniors is seen as a bigger benefit.
It's necessary to achieve those moves, though. Even senior pairs are almost always small to very small women with bigger (by skating standards) men. The reliance on size difference is built into the technical vocabulary of the sport.For pairs though, a big guy who can throw a small girl is seen as a bigger benefit.
There is the third option of pairing with another female who wants to skate pairs if she's in Canada. Same-gender ice dance teams are competing at the pre-novice level now, including a team from Newfoundland who would fit the criteria of being in an isolated location without a large pool of male skaters.Or, realistically, maybe there is only one teenage male skater in her whole small country who is willing to try pairs.
Of if she lives in a relatively isolated location in the US or Canada, not near a training center, but there is one coach there who used to be an international pairs competitor, maybe there is one boy at her rink or within driving distance who is interested in pairs.
If he's also 13, the the skill level they can achieve and the level they would aim to start competing at would be very different than if he's 18.
But either way, if there's only one, her options are either to skate pairs with that boy or not to skate pairs at all. Until her parents are ready to let her move away from home.
The supply of potential pair partners is far from infinite, and in most cases the pool of potential male partners is much smaller than the pool of potential female partners, so most of the girls who have the interest and talent never get to give pairs a try anyway.
And at the same time, there is no other category that adults could switch to as easily from single skating or roller skating.It's also very very hard to put teams together in pairs because there are so few skaters who want to do it and who have the right body types to do it a level appropriate for their age.
Synchronicity and teamwork could be one such aspect.I think you are forgetting that the thing that is the most important in pair skating is partner synchronicity and the feel for the partner. So, in a country that is so keen on getting the most pluses, Russia, the pairs are the closest in age to make sure they skate together for as long as possible and the partners who are closer in physical parameters are more successful, because they are simply more watchable and more convincing in making acrobatics feel like it means something.
OT, but that would be a fun thread. I can think of two: Barbara Fusar-Poli was two and a half years older than Marizio Margaglio. And personality-wise she was the boss lady and he was her young handsome triophy partner.Sometimes[in ice dance] the girl is older...
I think that there are not enough pairs skaters period to fill out all these divisions, especially if we envision that there will be separate Grand Prix competitions for each category. The ISU can scarcely find enough qualified pairts to run the senior Grand Prix circuit.So, what would you say about this suggestion: there is no Junior Pairs category, the existing Novice Pairs category is extended to 17 years and split in 4 (instead of 2) subcategories: Basic Novice 10-12yo, Basic Novice Plus 12-14yo, Advanced Novice 14-16yo and Advance Novice Plus 16-18yo. And then, tripple jumps are allowed for Advanced Novice Plus category . - ?
Like, Stephane Lambiel and Shizuka Arakawa skate in better synchronicity in an exhibition that they only had weeks to prepare than some pair skaters who are together for years if not decades:
Say you have an athletically talented 12- or 13-year-old girl who wants to skate pairs.
She is still pretty small, likely to grow in the next few years, but not likely to grow too much to be capable of skating pair moves by the time she reaches 17 and beyond.
Who can she look to for a potential pair partner?
By your definition of within one year (based on your proposed categories for the pairs), then a lot of dances teams are not, actually.Then why does it work for ice dancers?
The junior dance teams tend to be about the same age and make smooth transition to seniors. This is because, when forming a team, they think about the future and in future a smooth transition to seniors is seen as a bigger benefit.
For pairs though, a big guy who can throw a small girl is seen as a bigger benefit. This is the root of the problem and not any tearful story about a desperate 13yo who will certainly quit skating if she is not thrown up in the air right now. (Want to know my answer to her if I was her mom? No, you don't.)