Jump technique discussion

[Sam-Skwantch]

For the sake of points.....Maria Sotskova 3z-1lo-3s scored over 12pts at JGPF.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1415/gpf1415_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

https://youtu.be/CCFhjJJYKhQ?t=2m15s

She actually has very good technique when she hits. If she grows into herself comfortably she will be one of the better jumpers to come out of Russia.

 

[burntBREAD]

Almost everything about Nobunari Oda's jumps were ideal. It's too bad he Zayak-ed himself so frequently... he lost a bid to the 2006 Olympics, a world medal, at least one GP win, etc. etc. because of this...

 

[TMC]

This didn't happen, not sure where you got the GOE number.

Statsonice.com, I think I said so in my post? I didn't make it up or anything

 

[Maria Victoria]

Add Oda to the beautiful buttery landings category

Almost everything about Nobunari Oda's jumps were ideal. It's too bad he Zayak-ed himself so frequently... he lost a bid to the 2006 Olympics, a world medal, at least one GP win, etc. etc. because of this...

:yes: Dick Button likened his jumps to honey dripping.

 

[Sandpiper]

It's difficult to compare via stats imo because 1) GOE scaling changed since 2010 (which favours pre-2010 jumps) 2) ...but judges in turn became more generous with GOE to compensate. Trying to compare is difficult and probably heavily biased toward pre-2010 skates with GOE-happy judges.

Among the ladies, I'd say Liza has the best overall technique. Though I do prefer Yuna on specific jumps (her insane 3F-3T from 2009 Worlds comes to mind), Liza has a more complete set of triples (now including the axel).

Among the men, Yuzuru, Plushenko, Brian Joubert, and Ilia Kulik come to mind as people with good technique.

 

[xibsuarz]

This seems like the right place to ask: didn't Midori Ito have a good jumping technique too? I know next to nothing about technicals but her jumps her insanely high and seemed to cover a lot of ice. Her 3A is still my favorite among the ladies (with Liza's close behind). So I just thought it was odd not seeing her mentioned here as having good technique

 

[karne]

I agree that GOE cannot be used. Primarily, this is because a person with bad technique can get big GOE simply by doing as many transitions as possible into and out of the jump, doing 'tano and Rippon variations, etc, while a flawlessly performed jump with no such accessorizing doesn't meet all of the "bullet points". Case in point, Shoma Uno's 3A at 4CCs getting higher GOE than Joshua Farris' 3A. The only reason was that Uno stuffed it with transitions, while Joshua is happy to let the flawless quality speak for itself.

In ladies, I think there is no question: there is no lady in the last ten years or more who has jumps better than what Liza does. There are some men who must look on her with envy! For the men, Joshua is one of them; I would say Han Yan is another. The "old" Russians - Plushenko, Kulik et al - are still the best overall.

 

[oriquey]

I agree that GOE cannot be used. Primarily, this is because a person with bad technique can get big GOE simply by doing as many transitions as possible into and out of the jump, doing 'tano and Rippon variations, etc, while a flawlessly performed jump with no such accessorizing doesn't meet all of the "bullet points". Case in point, Shoma Uno's 3A at 4CCs getting higher GOE than Joshua Farris' 3A. The only reason was that Uno stuffed it with transitions, while Joshua is happy to let the flawless quality speak for itself.

In ladies, I think there is no question: there is no lady in the last ten years or more who has jumps better than what Liza does. There are some men who must look on her with envy! For the men, Joshua is one of them; I would say Han Yan is another. The "old" Russians - Plushenko, Kulik et al - are still the best overall.

Joshua's 3A is lovely For me, his 3A is currently one of my favourites, which includes Hanyu's, Han Yan's and Denis Ten's. And whatever Plushenko has been doing and is still doing, works. Not sure if that is technique but I don't remember the last time I saw him fall on his jumps.

 

[sunnystars]

This seems like the right place to ask: didn't Midori Ito have a good jumping technique too? I know next to nothing about technicals but her jumps her insanely high and seemed to cover a lot of ice. Her 3A is still my favorite among the ladies (with Liza's close behind). So I just thought it was odd not seeing her mentioned here as having good technique

Midori is still definitely the DIAMOND standard for me. I will admit that her bent knee (or idk I forgot the term of this cross-legged?) on her 3A sometimes irks me.

 

[Interspectator]

I heard Yamada Machiko say that Midori was a genius but her technique is not one that is teachable.
That is to say, you can't hold her jumps up to younger students and say, 'this is the ideal jump'...because they could never jump like that.

 

[shiroKJ]

While I love Midori and her poweresque jumps, her leg wrap is not ideal IMO. I don't know if that's part of technique though or just an aesthetics.

 

[Krunchii]

Midori is still definitely the DIAMOND standard for me. I will admit that her bent knee (or idk I forgot the term of this cross-legged?) on her 3A sometimes irks me.

Leg wrap, it's not bad technique though, just not as aesthetically pleasing. She still got the job done with the rotations, height, landing everything, she was one of a kind. I've asked my friend who is a coach (only low level though) about air position and she said Midori is a special case and she herself would never let a student have a leg wrap. She says her favourite air positions are Yuna Kim and Yuzuru Hanyu's though. She said Hanyu is straight as a needle and it's very pretty haha

 

[karne]

And whatever Plushenko has been doing and is still doing, works. Not sure if that is technique but I don't remember the last time I saw him fall on his jumps.

I think it is perfect technique but instilled as a youngster, and now he has so much muscle memory, it's so ingrained into the grooves of his mind, that he is still able to pull off the quad at his age, with his injury history.

 

[burntBREAD]

The thing with Midori's leg wrap is that if she didn't have it, with the height she achieved, she might've consistently overrotated her jumps without slowing the rotation somewhat.

 

[Amei]

The thing with Midori's leg wrap is that if she didn't have it, with the height she achieved, she might've consistently overrotated her jumps without slowing the rotation somewhat.

But isn't learning to control your jumps without something distracting needing to happen part of good technique/good jumps as well?

 

[satine]

But isn't learning to control your jumps without something distracting needing to happen part of good technique/good jumps as well?

Distracting being the subjective point here. I find bunched-up shoulders or a funny face (something some of my favorite jumpers have when they're in the air, no personal offense to them!) distracting. I don't consider Midori's leg wrap to be.

 

[burntBREAD]

But isn't learning to control your jumps without something distracting needing to happen part of good technique/good jumps as well?

Well sure, but I'm not sure how one would slow their rotation speed in the air without adjusting their aerial position, and it's not like you'd want to have a lower jump either. But regarding Midori Ito, she truly was a one-of-a-kind in terms of talent and pure physical specimen (her leg strength was incredible). I'm not sure we'll see such a case like her in a very long time, if ever.

 

[hurrah]

This is what Yagudin says about the 'perfect' axel technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwS9BuAJVYw (from 01:30~)

'There are no perfect techniques. We're so different. And there are no perfect suggestions (about) how to do it. I'm sure anyone who ever answered this question---how to do the triple axel---the answer will be exactly the same. You just have to go and try it.'

So, does anyone here know more about the triple axel technique than Yagudin?

So, it could be argued that higher the GOE, better the jump. If you jump higher, wider with more entry/exit speed and/or with more transitions before and after the jump, with delayed rotation, you will get better GOEs. And that's what a good jump (technique) is, according to CoP.

 

[creaturelover]

can anyone point out a skater with good Salchow technique? I learned the jumps from watching Yuna (since many of her jumps are pretty solid) but have heard her Salchow technique isn't that great, so I am wondering what a great salchow looks like

 

[jkun]

can anyone point out a skater with good Salchow technique? I learned the jumps from watching Yuna (since many of her jumps are pretty solid) but have heard her Salchow technique isn't that great, so I am wondering what a great salchow looks like

Yuna's salchow is good and has definitely gotten better since Vancouver. I think Carolina's salchow is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cYQMHiJSFk

But IMO: salchow is my least favorite jump, is just so mechanically awkward looking to me...