State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[R.D.]

At least 3 US women have set all-time low GP placement records this season:

Wagner, 6th in China - never been lower than 5th, and never outside top 4 since 2010(!)

Gold, 8th in France & 5th in USA - never been outside top 4 since debut 2012 season

Nagasu, 9th in Canada - last placement outside top 6 was 2013 (8th at NHK)


Welp...

 

[Chemistry66]

Junior Ladies just finished at Midwesterns, and the Nationals qualifiers are: Ashley Lin, Ashley Kim, Shannon Porter, Maxine Marie Bautista.

Good to see the JGP ladies are all qualifying so far, as well as some of the alternates.

 

[shiroKJ]

Just watched Karen's FS and I loved it! I seriously need this girl to gain some consistency because she has so much potential. Beautiful lines, huge jumps, lovely spins, and great expressions.

If only she can fix her UR and consistency problems, she could be the best well rounded skater in the world IMO.

 

[topaz emerald]

I call the Zayak revision for this season the Mariah Bell revision because no one that saw her at nationals could honestly say that rule wasn't ridiculous for making entire jump combos invalid because of just one additional 2T. I'm glad she's made such progress over the last year. I can't wait to watch her next week at Talin.

frida80,....would you kindly educate me on what the zayak rule is? I keep reading it on this forum, but I have no idea what it means. I did remember in an interview, Maria said she did too many double toes in that comp? I don't understand because she did a lot of triples in that "fourth of july" program, she just missed the opening triple triple......I can't wait to see her too!

 

[Chemistry66]

So...Angela Wang just threw down a serious SP at Sectionals with a 69.52 complete with a 3F-3T (with a 1.75 GOE!) and all level 4 elements. Depending on how she does tomorrow in the FS, she could challenge at Nationals (assuming she qualifies.)

Caroline Zhang sits in 2nd with 61.55. She landed her 3L-3L, but with a small negative GOE. Got level 4s on her spins and a Level 3 on her Step Sequence.

What's kind of cool is that Livvy Shilling, a skater who has yet to make it out of Sectionals out of 6 tries, is in 3rd with 58.79!

Paige Rydberg is in 4th with 57.99. Vanna Giang is in 5th with 56.71. Olivia Serafini is in 6th with 50.69.

 

[Poodlepal]

So basically the United States will not have any solo skaters in the GPF?
It really is a shame. No, I'm not holding my breath for Jason or Adam. They may have an outside chance of making it, but not more than that.:shame:

 

[topaz emerald]

Junior Ladies just finished at Midwesterns, and the Nationals qualifiers are: Ashley Lin, Ashley Kim, Shannon Porter, Maxine Marie Bautista.

Good to see the JGP ladies are all qualifying so far, as well as some of the alternates.

will there be videos up for all the sectionals?

 

[Chemistry66]

frida80,....would you kindly educate me on what the zayak rule is? I keep reading it on this forum, but I have no idea what it means. I did remember in an interview, Maria said she did too many double toes in that comp? I don't understand because she did a lot of triples in that "fourth of july" program, she just missed the opening triple triple......I can't wait to see her too!

Not Frida but I also understand the Zayak rule.

It's essentially a restriction on repeating jumps to encourage variation in a program. Only two types of quadruple/triple jumps can be attempted twice in a program, and if a jump is attempted twice, then one of the two attempts must be in a combination or a sequence. There was an separate addition a few years ago that prohibits including different double jumps more than twice each.

It used to be that the entire combination was invalidated if the extra repeated jump was part of a combo, but now it looks like just the extra repeated jump is invalidated and the rest of the combo stands.

It's called the "Zayak rule" informally after Elaine Zayak, an American skater who frequently performed lots of triples in her programs but most of those were the same jump, a 3T.

will there be videos up for all the sectionals?

Videos for Sectionals are on IceNetwork. Sometimes skaters/fans do post them onto Youtube but there's no guarantee.

 

[topaz emerald]

Just watched Karen's FS and I loved it! I seriously need this girl to gain some consistency because she has so much potential. Beautiful lines, huge jumps, lovely spins, and great expressions.

If only she can fix her UR and consistency problems, she could be the best well rounded skater in the world IMO.

I remember first seeing her at US nationals...she had huge jumps, but her skating did not impress me. I still feeling nothing when she skates

 

[Krunchii]

frida80,....would you kindly educate me on what the zayak rule is? I keep reading it on this forum, but I have no idea what it means. I did remember in an interview, Maria said she did too many double toes in that comp? I don't understand because she did a lot of triples in that "fourth of july" program, she just missed the opening triple triple......I can't wait to see her too!

You're not allowed to do more than 2 of one type of triple/double jump in a program and if you do 2 then 1 or both have to be in a combination, comes from Elaine Zayak who won a World title by doing a bunch of 3Ts

They only just added double jumps to that rule last but the Zayak rule would invalidate entire combinations until they changed it this year to only invalidate the repeated jump.

Mariah in her FS at Nationals last season missed the 3F-3T and turned it into a 3F-2T, then did a 3Lz-2T-2T, since she had 3 2Ts, they invalidated the entire 3Lz-2T-2T combination

 

[topaz emerald]

Not Frida but I also understand the Zayak rule.

It's essentially a restriction on repeating jumps to encourage variation in a program. Only two types of quadruple/triple jumps can be attempted twice in a program, and if a jump is attempted twice, then one of the two attempts must be in a combination or a sequence. There was an separate addition a few years ago that prohibits including different double jumps more than twice each.

It used to be that the entire combination was invalidated if the extra repeated jump was part of a combo, but now it looks like just the extra repeated jump is invalidated and the rest of the combo stands.

It's called the "Zayak rule" informally after Elaine Zayak, an American skater who frequently performed lots of triples in her programs but most of those were the same jump, a 3T.



Videos for Sectionals are on IceNetwork. Sometimes skaters/fans do post them onto Youtube but there's no guarantee.

Can you give me a specific example? I'm sorry, I'm confused, lol, forgive me.

 

[Chemistry66]

Can you give me a specific example? I'm sorry, I'm confused, lol, forgive me.

Say a skater includes the following in their program

3F
3F-3T
3S
3S-3T

They're good on one aspect of the jump repetition rules - the individual jump types are only solo jumps once each. However, THREE different types of triples are repeated (3F, 3S, 3T) which breaks the Zayak rule. Under previous rules, the entire 3S-3T combo would have been invalidated. Now, only the second 3T would be not counted (and then the 3S would probably receive a percentage downgrade due to being a repeated solo jump)

 

[tulosai]

So basically the United States will not have any solo skaters in the GPF?
It really is a shame. No, I'm not holding my breath for Jason or Adam. They may have an outside chance of making it, but not more than that.:shame:

I actually think either Jason or Adam will probably make it, but we'll see

Don't forget though we don't have any pairs either... but that's not new

 

[shiroKJ]

Can you give me a specific example? I'm sorry, I'm confused, lol, forgive me.

Good Layout:
3Lz-3T
3S-3T
3F
2A-2T-2T
3Lz
3L
2A

Rule: Can only repeat 2 types of triple and 2 types of double.
What was done in this layout: 2x 3Lz, 2x 3T, 2x 2A, 2x 2T [✓]


Zayaking layout (aka bad):
3Lz-2T (popped 3T)
3S-3T
3F
2A-2T-2T
3Lz
3L
2A

What was done in this layout: 2x 3Lz, 1x 3T, 2x 2A, 3x 2T [✕]

Because she did a 3rd 2T, the entire element (2A-2T-2T) would have been invalidated, aka "Zayak". That changed this season, and they now only invalidate the single jump that zayaked (the red 2T)

To maximize the TES without zayaking, when she popped the 3Lz-3T into 2T, she could have done her 2A combos like this: 2A-3T-2T ; 2A-3T-2L ; 2A-2L-2T ; 2A-1L-3S, etc.

 

[topaz emerald]

Good Layout:
3Lz-3T
3S-3T
3F
2A-2T-2T
3Lz
3L
2A

Rule: Can only repeat 2 types of triple and 2 types of double.
What was done in this layout: 2x 3Lz, 2x 3T, 2x 2A, 2x 2T [✓]


Zayaking layout (aka bad):
3Lz-2T (popped 3T)
3S-3T
3F
2A-2T-2T
3Lz
3L
2A

What was done in this layout: 2x 3Lz, 1x 3T, 2x 2A, 3x 2T [✕]

Because she did a 3rd 2T, the entire element (2A-2T-2T) would have been invalidated, aka "Zayak". That changed this season, and they now only invalidate the single jump that zayaked (the red 2T)

so basically, the zayak rule is you can't repeat a jump more than twice? then I like this rule because it forces skaters to put in a variety of jumps, makes it more competitive.

thanks for your explanation.

 

[topaz emerald]

Say a skater includes the following in their program

3F
3F-3T
3S
3S-3T

They're good on one aspect of the jump repetition rules - the individual jump types are only solo jumps once each. However, THREE different types of triples are repeated (3F, 3S, 3T) which breaks the Zayak rule. Under previous rules, the entire 3S-3T combo would have been invalidated. Now, only the second 3T would be not counted (and then the 3S would probably receive a percentage downgrade due to being a repeated solo jump)

thanks for your explanation, appreciate it....

 

[gravy]

I actually think either Jason or Adam will probably make it, but we'll see

Don't forget though we don't have any pairs either... but that's not new

If Jason gets a silver at NHK, I think both could make it.

 

[Chemistry66]

so basically, the zayak rule is you can't repeat a jump more than twice? then I like this rule because it forces skaters to put in a variety of jumps, makes it more competitive.

thanks for your explanation.

Mainly the more-than-twice thing, yes. There's also the part that if a quad or triple is repeated, at least one of the two has to be in combination.

 

[mrrice]

So...Angela Wang just threw down a serious SP at Sectionals with a 69.52 complete with a 3F-3T (with a 1.75 GOE!) and all level 4 elements. Depending on how she does tomorrow in the FS, she could challenge at Nationals (assuming she qualifies.)

Caroline Zhang sits in 2nd with 61.55. She landed her 3L-3L, but with a small negative GOE. Got level 4s on her spins and a Level 3 on her Step Sequence.

What's kind of cool is that Livvy Shilling, a skater who has yet to make it out of Sectionals out of 6 tries, is in 3rd with 58.79!

Paige Rydberg is in 4th with 57.99. Vanna Giang is in 5th with 56.71. Olivia Serafini is in 6th with 50.69.

Thanks Chemistry, I have been a fan of Angela's for a long time and I'd love to see her win this event. I don't care if it's not a "Major" event, this can only help to build her confidence and help her as Nationals get closer. With the Top Ladies struggling, this is a perfect opportunity for Angela to make her first Senior Podium!! I just briefly skimmed over Angela's Career and at one point, she was actually ranked higher than Anna Pogorilaya.

 

[brightphoton]

Can you give me a specific example? I'm sorry, I'm confused, lol, forgive me.

Japanese skater Nobi Oda had a habit of accidental zayaking at competitions. It was kind of funny, but not really because he lost a lot of points.

At 2011 Worlds, his 3A-3T was given zero points. At around 6:50, you can see his coaches grimacing, the commentators are talking about his invalid combination. He did a 3A-3T after doing a 3T-3T, because ... who knows.

https://youtu.be/81LTkAGE-RU

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Men_FS_Scores.pdf