What is your subjective and personal definition of art in figure skating?
- Thread starter Anna K.
- Start date
- Joined
- May 28, 2023
- Country
-
The act of interpreting the music piece one skates to, in my opinion. You work so hard practicing techniques of each element/skill, then a program is choreographed, then you work so hard to put all these elements and skills together, do it over and over again, mature it then you work on artistry/interpretation.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
Love this, thanks.
I rarely see what I would call art in figure skating.
It's so hard to define, but I think it would need to be new, discovering new options, crossing lines and limits, not really being restricted by the rules or the need to gain the most points. It should definitely be devoid of kitsch and bad stereotypes. It should bring together different aspects in a new and creative way. It should not just transfer another medium on ice, but create something of its own by the specific means of moving on ice. It should not be purely decorative and pretty but transcend that. It should not be pretentious but authentic. I think you need really, really strong skaters, though. When they are struggling technically the idea is not enough in skating.
Programs that in my eyes are going into the direction of art are such like: Aymoz, Bolero; Green/Parsons, Ezio Bosso; Dupayage/ Nabais, Mechanisms; Mozalev, My Body is a Cage; Kerber; Savchenko/Massot, La Terre; Adam Rippon, Arrival of the Birds... I think the costume usually plays its part as well.
I rarely see what I would call art in figure skating.
It's so hard to define, but I think it would need to be new, discovering new options, crossing lines and limits, not really being restricted by the rules or the need to gain the most points. It should definitely be devoid of kitsch and bad stereotypes. It should bring together different aspects in a new and creative way. It should not just transfer another medium on ice, but create something of its own by the specific means of moving on ice. It should not be purely decorative and pretty but transcend that. It should not be pretentious but authentic. I think you need really, really strong skaters, though. When they are struggling technically the idea is not enough in skating.
Programs that in my eyes are going into the direction of art are such like: Aymoz, Bolero; Green/Parsons, Ezio Bosso; Dupayage/ Nabais, Mechanisms; Mozalev, My Body is a Cage; Kerber; Savchenko/Massot, La Terre; Adam Rippon, Arrival of the Birds... I think the costume usually plays its part as well.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Art in figure skating to me is a skater being as one with the ice and with his or her music. Gliding moves rather than jerky movements, especially in between jumps and spins, arms not flailing, not attempting jumps that you only complete 3 out of 10 attempts, interpreting the music, and looking like you're enjoying the program rather than just zooming from one thing to the next to get maximum points. To illustrate what I'm saying - check out most of Jason Brown's programs. Or go back and watch Michelle Kwan!
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2023
I enjoy those who can kinaesthetically personify the same profound emotions as I feel or think; relatable skating as I say.
What is kinaesthetic personification? I dont know if I have what it takes to define that. At least not in a way that wont sound extremely pretentious, convoluted and pseudo-intellectual. But it is not arbitrary, I think, that for example swans are considered beautiful, graceful, romantic; that a ballerina who dances as a swan is a body personifying those same ideas. For those of you who are beyond analytical and abhor any abstract ambiguity, I could engage further about this, but brace yourself for some ostensive word salad and ad-hoc amateur word-smithing...
I dont draw a line here anywhere between what we call concepts or feelings. Some might say for example: grace is a concept, joy is a feeling. This feels arbitrary to me, as joy surely can be thought of as a "concept" alone meanwhile I think grace and akin "concepts" can be "felt" and understood in a purely emotional way. At least, for me this does happen; I feel more than describe or reduce to constituents in any situation. I really dislike reductionism.
For the better good I hope at least most of you will allow it to be taken for granted that physical personification of emotion is a real phenomena...
Art generally is not describable in any practical manner. I think the most broad and agreeable definition of art is the identification and personification of a specific personal characteristic by use of a sensory medium.
What I mean by personification is like this: imagine an artist is "sad" and writes a "sad" song. When you listen to this song you also become "sad", as if you were speaking with a "sad" person themselves and they explained to you some profoundly "sad" condition that resonates with you. Think, when you describe an emotion, you say for example, "I AM sad" (or, become "sad", temporarily manifesting "sad" as self). For the time then the emotion and your own apparent person are almost interchangeable as concepts ((at least, enough for us to practically articulate it as such) of course I dont deny the existent of some transcendental undertone being who you uniquely and perpetually really are, what some could call a soul perhaps). As such the song then channeled through this emotion can be described as a subsidiary pseduo-person; an identified, purified and preserved small piece of what is otherwise the gestalt: the actual man. The song is expression, in the same way consciousness is observation.
This is what I mean by relating to art. Art is not conscious because it cannot interpret you or anything at all, but it is a pseudo-conscious agent in the way it acts upon you (I hope that isnt pretentious, I really am trying to explain concisely and accurately as possible).
In this case yes culinary arts are as valid an art as painting or music since taste is a sensory medium; and I dont see reason as to why that shouldnt be the case.
So then my favourite skaters are those which have the longest and deepest impression on my feelings, and so the total value of those two factors would then represent how much I admire the art, and by extension artist.
Hence my distaste for casual pop-dancey programs; they are vague and unimpressive (as in, they literally do not leave any sort of impression, at least not to me...). Following the earlier imposition of pseduo-personality on art; pop-dance programs are as a person with who you partake in trivial small-talk, versus a person who can change your entire paradigm because of how intelligent they are. This then is the difference in my favourite programs (or art generally). I dont "dislike" casual programs but they just dont mean anything (to me).
And hence also my appreciation of Muravieva. She is not the most technically sophisticated artist I know in skating (at least not unequivocally and/or not yet), but she is the most real and relatable. Its touching that she is so expressive and emotional win or lose; I find it extremely endearing. Her disposition is so more human than the Eteri girls who are generally stone cold no matter what. I mean how is it that 12 y/o Bazyluk sounds as a stoic philosopher in every interview? Its very impressive but off-putting; not relatable. It also seems that while some really intelligent Eteri girls (Anna, Akateva, Adeliia...) can represent some artistic ideal on ice during the designated time, they do not represent themselves as someone like Muravieva does, and hence their seeming disconnect on versus off ice as compared to Muravieva (or others like her) (of course based on my external opinion and analysis - I dont actually know any of them...).
What is kinaesthetic personification? I dont know if I have what it takes to define that. At least not in a way that wont sound extremely pretentious, convoluted and pseudo-intellectual. But it is not arbitrary, I think, that for example swans are considered beautiful, graceful, romantic; that a ballerina who dances as a swan is a body personifying those same ideas. For those of you who are beyond analytical and abhor any abstract ambiguity, I could engage further about this, but brace yourself for some ostensive word salad and ad-hoc amateur word-smithing...
I dont draw a line here anywhere between what we call concepts or feelings. Some might say for example: grace is a concept, joy is a feeling. This feels arbitrary to me, as joy surely can be thought of as a "concept" alone meanwhile I think grace and akin "concepts" can be "felt" and understood in a purely emotional way. At least, for me this does happen; I feel more than describe or reduce to constituents in any situation. I really dislike reductionism.
For the better good I hope at least most of you will allow it to be taken for granted that physical personification of emotion is a real phenomena...
Art generally is not describable in any practical manner. I think the most broad and agreeable definition of art is the identification and personification of a specific personal characteristic by use of a sensory medium.
What I mean by personification is like this: imagine an artist is "sad" and writes a "sad" song. When you listen to this song you also become "sad", as if you were speaking with a "sad" person themselves and they explained to you some profoundly "sad" condition that resonates with you. Think, when you describe an emotion, you say for example, "I AM sad" (or, become "sad", temporarily manifesting "sad" as self). For the time then the emotion and your own apparent person are almost interchangeable as concepts ((at least, enough for us to practically articulate it as such) of course I dont deny the existent of some transcendental undertone being who you uniquely and perpetually really are, what some could call a soul perhaps). As such the song then channeled through this emotion can be described as a subsidiary pseduo-person; an identified, purified and preserved small piece of what is otherwise the gestalt: the actual man. The song is expression, in the same way consciousness is observation.
This is what I mean by relating to art. Art is not conscious because it cannot interpret you or anything at all, but it is a pseudo-conscious agent in the way it acts upon you (I hope that isnt pretentious, I really am trying to explain concisely and accurately as possible).
In this case yes culinary arts are as valid an art as painting or music since taste is a sensory medium; and I dont see reason as to why that shouldnt be the case.
So then my favourite skaters are those which have the longest and deepest impression on my feelings, and so the total value of those two factors would then represent how much I admire the art, and by extension artist.
Hence my distaste for casual pop-dancey programs; they are vague and unimpressive (as in, they literally do not leave any sort of impression, at least not to me...). Following the earlier imposition of pseduo-personality on art; pop-dance programs are as a person with who you partake in trivial small-talk, versus a person who can change your entire paradigm because of how intelligent they are. This then is the difference in my favourite programs (or art generally). I dont "dislike" casual programs but they just dont mean anything (to me).
And hence also my appreciation of Muravieva. She is not the most technically sophisticated artist I know in skating (at least not unequivocally and/or not yet), but she is the most real and relatable. Its touching that she is so expressive and emotional win or lose; I find it extremely endearing. Her disposition is so more human than the Eteri girls who are generally stone cold no matter what. I mean how is it that 12 y/o Bazyluk sounds as a stoic philosopher in every interview? Its very impressive but off-putting; not relatable. It also seems that while some really intelligent Eteri girls (Anna, Akateva, Adeliia...) can represent some artistic ideal on ice during the designated time, they do not represent themselves as someone like Muravieva does, and hence their seeming disconnect on versus off ice as compared to Muravieva (or others like her) (of course based on my external opinion and analysis - I dont actually know any of them...).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
- Country
-
To me, figure skating is at its most artful when it communicates ideas and emotions using the physical language of skating - by which I mean skating-specific movements and elements such as glides, turns, steps, spins, and jumps.
This, of course, isn't to say that there's no artistic value in program elements that come from other disciplines - things such as music, costumes, and choreographic movements borrowed from various dance styles - but to me, these should enhance and support the artistry of the skating movements that make up the core of the program, rather than distract from it, or cover up the fact that the program isn't well-composed.
It's not unlike musical theatre, in many respects. There are a ton of elements that are necessary for making a good musical (costumes, lighting, choreography, etc), but, at the end of the day, the thing that makes it a musical is the communication of story and emotion through song - just like the thing that makes a skating program a skating program is the skating part!
This, of course, isn't to say that there's no artistic value in program elements that come from other disciplines - things such as music, costumes, and choreographic movements borrowed from various dance styles - but to me, these should enhance and support the artistry of the skating movements that make up the core of the program, rather than distract from it, or cover up the fact that the program isn't well-composed.
It's not unlike musical theatre, in many respects. There are a ton of elements that are necessary for making a good musical (costumes, lighting, choreography, etc), but, at the end of the day, the thing that makes it a musical is the communication of story and emotion through song - just like the thing that makes a skating program a skating program is the skating part!
That says it for me!
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2008
My subjective and personal definition of Art in Figure Skating:
Matteo Rizzo.
Sorry, but you asked about "personal" and "subjective"
I know it when I see it, and can feel it.
Matteo Rizzo.
Sorry, but you asked about "personal" and "subjective"
I know it when I see it, and can feel it.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Country
-
Well of course there is 'good' art and 'bad' art... and the latter doesn't necessarily mean 'not' art (I am wondering myself about Misha Ge and his costumes, for instance.) For me art, good or bad, needs to move the heart and the imagination, even the intellect if we are being pushy and please note, in figure skating I don't think we need to be that pushy because of the other imperatives. The factor that makes 'artistry' not art imo is not dislike, or even mockery - it's indifference.
Ha, ha, I think about it exactly the same way. Only that mine is Yuzuru Hanyu.My subjective and personal definition of Art in Figure Skating:
Matteo Rizzo.
Sorry, but you asked about "personal" and "subjective"
I know it when I see it, and can feel it.
But yes, you know it when you see it and you feel it. Or you don't.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
- Country
-
We had a huge thread about this and I haven't changed my mind. I find figure skating an athletic discipline first and foremost. A few skaters indeed have mastery of blade and body awareness that they are always aesthetically pleasing to look at. However, I wonder if we would think of figure skating as artistic without the music and fancy costumes? Trying to imagine the discipline without these... I guess it could be like the floor exercise for men in gymnastics. (Women use music). It is beautiful to look at with extreme care for detail but it doesn't convey much emotion if any at all and I wouldn't call it artistic. For the women, the addition of music helps us to relate a bit more. So is the artistic part of figure skating the whole idea of packaging? There are some skaters who do value acting and story telling. Would these be considered more artistic than others? (Actually, some of them often get lukewarm comments from some fans) . So, I stand by what I did say before, sport first and foremost with some spectacular moments 
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
Gonna wiggle out if this with "there is no art, only artists."
I think a good figure skating program merges the competitive with the performance. The programs I enjoy the most are the ones where I feel that the skater really is one with the music, the ice and their body and kind of lives in the moment, while also striving for the best possible result. Sprinkle a bit of showmanship on top I guess?
I don't know if that is art or if its really important if it's art, but it is "real" to me and makes me feel something.
I think a good figure skating program merges the competitive with the performance. The programs I enjoy the most are the ones where I feel that the skater really is one with the music, the ice and their body and kind of lives in the moment, while also striving for the best possible result. Sprinkle a bit of showmanship on top I guess?
I don't know if that is art or if its really important if it's art, but it is "real" to me and makes me feel something.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
- Country
-
interesting concept. I'd add performing artists if I were to go there with you (not sure where I stand with this one
)this is also another interesting one : art doesn't necessarily lead to emotion and feelings, though I admit that we often equate our emotional reception of the programs with that. . If it were a requirement, than the Louvre is full of very works of Not-art
(Not trying to argue with your personal perspective.. just thought some of it was interesting to comment on)... I have remained quite far away from this thread because I know I am at polar opposite compared to many here.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
It moves me.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
Pretty sure the Louvre is full of stuff the people who made it didn't think of as art since art really doesn't seem to be an universal concept. xdthis is also another interesting one : art doesn't necessarily lead to emotion and feelings, though I admit that we often equate our emotional reception of the programs with that. . If it were a requirement, than the Louvres is full of very works of Not-art
Maybe craft?
I would also like to throw in the Japanese concept found in activities like judou, sadou, kendo etc. More like mastery and personal investment than art but I think the concept also encompasses beauty.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
- Country
-
yes but i meant that we walk through the rooms full of painting, and we don't get emotional about each one of them
doesn't mean that Mona Lisa is not art since I didn't care for it right ?artistry and art are different indeed. Some skaters have definitely mastered the artistry of the blade or of the edges... that is expertise, dedication, commitment.... but not necessarily art
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2023
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
- Country
-
I wonder what the base value of an entrechat is. I hope this answers your question. Ballet is a performing art. It is not done to get points and Olympic medals.
Of course, figure skating may resemble performing arts. Already, performing arts and art are different things.
The intent is important here. I won't get into this discussion once again. The OP was clear, she wanted to hear about everyone's subjective artistic definition of figure skating. Shared my perspective, not willing to argue about it ad nauseam. Been there, done that, lost precious minutes
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2023
I wonder what the net point value of any ice show or exhibition ever is... with the exact same skaters and elements...
Oh right but its about the intention... waiting on the mind reading machine data on what it is that goes through a skater's mind and how they arent expressing themselves but just going for points... all of them... right...
You young people have become so conservative and I dont know where it came from.
Similar threads
