2015 Junior Worlds Ladies Free Skate

[katymay]

re Wakaba - you can never know for sure what age someone will go through puberty. Do any of the Japanese (or otherwise Wakaba) fans know how much her body has changed the last couple of years? I just ask because she's now 14 and while she is short, her stature looks like someone who is currently growing (her current build looks like someone currently going through puberty). Maybe someone who has seen her more within the last couple of years can comment.

In any event - Wakaba's jump technique is very well formed/sophisticated - even the flip, which has given her trouble, has good height and a clean landing.

Skaters who see their jumps fall of going through puberty are often those who did not have good technique to begin with (although, obviously, this is not always the case). No guarantees- but Wakaba strikes me as someone whose jumps will hold up.

Re Wakaba's PCS - yes, there is a gap between her TCS (the highest in the long program by 4 points) - but her PCS was still 3rd highest overall - and she is one of the youngest skaters in the field - and doing her first year at jr. Let's not exaggerate 'complaints' over Wakaba's PCS - they are very superior. I suspect her performance ability will pick up with experience - and she does have a natural 'musicality' (to go alone with her high end skating skills).

IMO, Wakaba's first year on the junior scene can only be described as a 'resounding success'!

I have already seen a great deal of progress on the spins...although she needs much more work here. But from what I understand, the Japanese way is to get the jumps first, early on, and then work the spins, arm flapping etc. It wa certainly the best program I've seen her skate-good for her!

 

[Meoima]

Liza already had the best jumping technique to begin with before puberty. I don't know about Adelina though...but her SS was stronger than Liza IIRC? I think it's okay to say both of them survive puberty okay.
Is any of the current girl has the same skillset as them?

 

[katymay]

Sima skated before Wakaba. How would the judges know that Wakaba was not going to get an edge call when Wakaba had not even skated? On top of that, Wakaba's TCS was more than 4 points higher than both Evgenia and Sima and she placed ahead of Sima in the free skate (and was less than two-tenths back from Evgenia).

I wish Wakaba had won silver but some of the posts in this thread are just silly.

Tech/refs pour over video, attend practices etc., long before the competition. They are LOOKING for what they have already seen, or if a particular skater has a reputation for flipping an edge etc.

And on an unrelated note: If I were judging I would deduct for Tano....so 'juvenile ladies'. The only time it looks good is when the skater has HUGE jumps.

 

[Interspectator]

I have already seen a great deal of progress on the spins...although she needs much more work here. But from what I understand, the Japanese way is to get the jumps first, early on, and then work the spins, arm flapping etc. It wa certainly the best program I've seen her skate-good for her!

There are a some Japanese Junior girls who are good at the 'arm flapping' and spinning...but their jumps are not stable like Wakaba's so they didn't make the team. But if you watch Japanese Nationals, you can see there is a lot of depth there, both in the technical and artistic areas. It is very rare to see both in one skater.

I liked Evegnia's program very much. Though she does not have a lot of running edge out of her jumps, her landings are neat and her foot is steady most of the time on landing. I like her musicality though the program brings some questions marks to mind.

Serafima is rather wild and her jump landings are quite tentative. She is good a keeping on her feet though which is commendable. She has her own emerging style, which I hope to see more of in future.

Wakaba's Jumps are beautiful. It's ok to be a Jumping Bean if your jumps are as great as that. That is not all she is either. Her speed, her deep edges and her conviction in executing the Choreography she has been given is quite good as well. Her spins let her down though so she must work on that.

I think the result could have gone either way, with the silver going to either Wakaba or Serafima, and in times like this, the judges will go with the skater who is already ranked higher. In this case Serafima, over Wakaba.

I would like all the top 3 girls to get better choreographed programs next season. As the programs are right now, I'm more likely to re-watch Elizabet, Maria and Karen's programs for simple enjoyment.

This is a Worthy Podium and there will be sparks flying when Evegenia goes to Seniors. (will it be next year?)

 

[Meoima]

But to be fair Wakaba doesn't have the level of package that Serafima and Evgenia have yet. Wakaba's skating now is mostly based on her speed and energy. She needs to learn more about acting.

 

[thoakun]

But to be fair Wakaba doesn't have the level of package that Serafima and Evgenia have yet. Wakaba's skating now is mostly based on her speed and energy. She needs to learn more about acting.

No doubt about that, but I still feel that she has better musicality than Rika at the same age. Her programs are weak choreographically and she's still coltish but I see an attempt to connect to the music and make the best out of the choreography. I'm impressed with how far Rika has improved over the course of just 1 year so I look forward to what Wakaba is going to deliver next season.

 

[Meoima]

No doubt about that, but I still feel that she has better musicality than Rika at the same age. Her programs are weak choreographically and she's still coltish but I see an attempt to connect to the music and make the best out of the choreography. I'm impressed with how far Rika has improved over the course of just 1 year so I look forward to what Wakaba is going to deliver next season.

Rika is... Gangly! Maybe if she skates to metal it would suit her better. Watching her Carmen was very entertaining and horrifying at the same time as it reminds me of the sexy Witt lol.
Wakaba has gut. She performed at WC 2014 gala, and when the music was off, she skated without any music at all. The audience carried her. That was so brave.

 

[shine]

I would say it is hard to predict. Sima has sort of mature skating already - her Lyublyana performance was not only brilliant but also very "adult". The question is puberty - how she is going to handle it. With Zhenia's "balerina" style the main thing is how she is going to change. Polina Edmunds used to be like her - not any longer and it has its toll on her skating. If Zhenia goes the same path - brings up weight and musles she won't be the same Medvedeva we know. May be better may be not. Wakaba can have whatever future - impossible to say. I think right now she is a classical "jumping bean". For a very obvious reason people who freely used this term with respect to young Russians never name her this way although for me she is the embodiment - no choreo, no elegancy - just power and jumps. Of course, if she keeps all her strong features and somehow fills the gaps she can make a huge leap forward and be the great power among seniors as well. But as she is the youngest it is very early to spekulate on likelihoods.

It's silly to dismiss Wakaba as simply a jumping bean. She doesn't just jump a lot, she has impacable technique on the jumps. Her skating technique is also already one of the best in the world (far superior than any of the ladies at Jr Worlds), and it's just jaw droppingly good for her age.

But to be fair Wakaba doesn't have the level of package that Serafima and Evgenia have yet. Wakaba's skating now is mostly based on her speed and energy. She needs to learn more about acting.

I'm not sure what you mean by packaging. None of Serafima's or Evgenia's programs this year are that great, and although I agree Evgenia is quite polished, Serafima's presentation this year is so all over the place - it's like she is trying to be expressive but simply doesn't know how, so it just looks like kind of a mess.

 

[yyyskate]

some observation of Asian girls puberty:
Zijun grew a few inches at OG season, puberty trouble at age 17, she lost stamina.
Mirai, puberty started from 17, have problem ever since.
Caroline puberty start from 16, suddenly grew taller and fill up gradually every year.
Yuna, had puberty at 16, lark ascending year. said it is very hard for her (stamina issue, no clean lark), but she controlled her weight very well.
Mao Asada, started to have problem from 2008 season.
Soyoun, filled out a lot this season(17), but seems no particular changes at all in her jumps.

Karen is 15 now, will face puberty very soon, :hopelessness: Dont know if she can manage to come out of it before next OG. will be 18.
Wakababy is 14, will be 17 at OG, also alarming puberty year for asian girls.

Yuna and Zijun's puberty issue is stamina, technique did not change much. Caroline lose jump.

I think perhaps Karen should change coach, a different perspective, and polish her technique a bit. she has under-rotation issue, although her jump' speed/height/length are top notch. seems jumping technique not efficient.
wakababy's jumps are very good, relaxed upper body, jumps from leg, from start to finish perfect. also innate musicality, also very strong basic skating skills. she needs more sophisticated programs, and her skill set can handle it. She is far from merely a "jumping bean", Musicality and other skills are top level. She may suffer from stockier body type(because of that, her real artistic potential been ignored...). therefore, need to find a way to come around it.
during this season, Wakababy's performance has already improved a lot and really, that LP, when I followed the whole comp live(the flow of the whole program is just perfect with music, no interruptions at all, you cannot help but shout out awesome when it ends), she did the music justice. very successful junior debut year.

 

[yyyskate]

It's silly to dismiss Wakaba as simply a jumping bean. She doesn't just jump a lot, she has impacable technique on the jumps. Her skating technique is also already one of the best in the world (far superior than any of the ladies at Jr Worlds), and it's just jaw droppingly good for her age.


I'm not sure what you mean by packaging. None of Serafima's or Evgenia's programs this year are that great, and although I agree Evgenia is quite polished, Serafima's presentation this year is so all over the place - it's like she is trying to be expressive but simply doesn't know how, so it just looks like kind of a mess.

Spot on, therefore lots of expressive faces, but actual expressive skating is getting sloppier from her previous self.

 

[witcher]

I would say it is hard to predict. Sima has sort of mature skating already - her Lyublyana performance was not only brilliant but also very "adult". The question is puberty - how she is going to handle it. With Zhenia's "balerina" style the main thing is how she is going to change. Polina Edmunds used to be like her - not any longer and it has its toll on her skating. If Zhenia goes the same path - brings up weight and musles she won't be the same Medvedeva we know. May be better may be not. Wakaba can have whatever future - impossible to say. I think right now she is a classical "jumping bean". For a very obvious reason people who freely used this term with respect to young Russians never name her this way although for me she is the embodiment - no choreo, no elegancy - just power and jumps. Of course, if she keeps all her strong features and somehow fills the gaps she can make a huge leap forward and be the great power among seniors as well. But as she is the youngest it is very early to spekulate on likelihoods.

:thumbsup:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's silly to dismiss Wakaba as simply a jumping bean. She doesn't just jump a lot, she has impacable technique on the jumps. Her skating technique is also already one of the best in the world (far superior than any of the ladies at Jr Worlds), and it's just jaw droppingly good for her age.

I'd say dismissing any of the top six in this competition would be a silly thing to do. I see a good foundation, albeit different in each, in all of them. Some are better performers amd some have better technical goods like jumps, carriage of body, spins, etc. but all have a tremendous foundation to grow from.

Wakaba does have nice moments in her choreo and performance but at this point they come in spurts. I was editing my SP recap video (posted in the videos/results thread) and there is a moment where she executes amazing SS and does a turn with her arm that reveals a smiley face and then explodes into steps. There are also a few moments where she is dead upstairs and simply skating hips down. Once she combines everything into a complete package she will slay

As for all the comparisons...I see Mao more than anything

 

[Barb]

i am impressed with Wakaba not just because her jumps , she doesnt look clumpsy when she is skating like the most of junior skaters , I adore to Elena R. and Evgenia but they still look clumpsy, I would be horryfied if they continue looking like this at their 20's. So, yes, Wakaba needs better programs and acting but she is not only a jumping bean.

 

[yyyskate]

I hope, Japanese fed can invest on wakababy a bit in the near future...

 

[Snow63]

I would say it is hard to predict. Sima has sort of mature skating already - her Lyublyana performance was not only brilliant but also very "adult". The question is puberty - how she is going to handle it. With Zhenia's "balerina" style the main thing is how she is going to change. Polina Edmunds used to be like her - not any longer and it has its toll on her skating. If Zhenia goes the same path - brings up weight and musles she won't be the same Medvedeva we know. May be better may be not. Wakaba can have whatever future - impossible to say. I think right now she is a classical "jumping bean". For a very obvious reason people who freely used this term with respect to young Russians never name her this way although for me she is the embodiment - no choreo, no elegancy - just power and jumps. Of course, if she keeps all her strong features and somehow fills the gaps she can make a huge leap forward and be the great power among seniors as well. But as she is the youngest it is very early to spekulate on likelihoods.

I agree with you about Wakaba. It looks like she just runs from one side of the rink to other side and jumps, then again and again. That's why I said I don't like her style. And with puberty or not, without improvement on her artistry she's not going to win big.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I'd say dismissing any of the top six in this competition would be a silly thing to do. I see a good foundation, albeit different in each, in all of them. Some are better performers amd some have better technical goods like jumps, carriage of body, spins, etc. but all have a tremendous foundation to grow from.

Wakaba does have nice moments in her choreo and performance but at this point they come in spurts. I was editing my SP recap video (posted in the videos/results thread) and there is a moment where she executes amazing SS and does a turn with her arm that reveals a smiley face and then explodes into steps. There are also a few moments where she is dead upstairs and simply skating hips down. Once she combines everything into a complete package she will slay

As for all the comparisons...I see Mao more than anything

:agree:

Though maybe not about the Mao comparison. I think it's too early to tell. She has yet to find a style. But she's certainly got time on her side. And talent. There are moments where you can see it--even with "choreography" as rudimentary as she was given.

 

[yyyskate]

I cannot find a good fancam for Wakababy's lp, but I think her LP's ice coverage is pretty good and evenly distributed. perhaps some hard-working japanese fan can draw the ice coverage figure like they did for Radio and Liza, and then compare. Also, fans can started to take fancam in the future for the sake of knowledge.
I dont think she is running from one end to another end and then jump. she exhibited variety in her skating directions and skating skills.
she needs better choreo to show her performance range in the future. I believe she can handle it.

 

[stryke]

I'm not sure what you mean by packaging. None of Serafima's or Evgenia's programs this year are that great, and although I agree Evgenia is quite polished, Serafima's presentation this year is so all over the place - it's like she is trying to be expressive but simply doesn't know how, so it just looks like kind of a mess.

There is a story behind Serafima's routines and she has already stated what they are in detail. I think she expresses the story perfectly and it has only gotten better since her first competition. I see nothing behind Wakaba's skating except speed and skill. You need more than that obviously to beat Sima and Zhenya.

 

[yyyskate]

^ not every performance is about telling a story, nor every piece of music, it could be completely abstract. skater could just merely interpret the texture/mood/undertone of the music. that is what wowed me in Wakababy's LP performance. she did it extremely well for her age. interpreted the essence of music really well, showed her excellent musicality.
to tell a story, what if the audience never heard the story, and spectator will only judge on how skater interpret the music. And serafima is indeed a little sloppy. For that performance, I saw great intention to perform,which is great, but also interrupted performance for obvious reasons.
for the long-run, if a skater can interpret the music instead of rely on story, s/he will have brighter future. because, if you interpreted the music properly, you are telling a story, not the other way around (of course, you could tell the story in all interviews).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think whether you portray a story or simply interpret the music bears no effect on how bright your future is. It's really just how well you do what the movements you plan and execute IMHO. I also don't think it's necassary to know the story if one is so inclined to do so. At some point the spectatpr's own imagination and willingness to interpret it is out of the skaters hands really.

I guess I just don't think one way is really the right way.