2016 Europeans Men Free Skate

[andyjo24]

sorry guys, but the beginning of Maxim's program made me laugh so hard...he's just trying too much

Oh wow. Javi might beat Hanyu's 319 if he actually goes 100% clean! :eeking:

 

[3T3T]

On the whole a disappointing competition, certainly not as good as short.

Fernandez was a deserving winner but he was overscored. I thought some of his jumps were sloppy and he didn't deserve any 10's in PCS. It's a great achievement to win 4 Euro's in a row, I'm not sure who in Europe can beat him in the next few years? I enjoyed Bychenko's skating not as showy as expressive as some but two strong performances, it was a different piece of Les Mis music and it worked for him. I didn't realise he is about to turn 28, he is getting on a bit. I hope he skates good at Worlds.

Kovtun had a disaster but he kept on battling and the judges were kind to him, probably to kind. I also though Amodio in 4th was overscored, I didn't particularly care for his free skate, I would have marked him down on PCS. I kinda thought Kolyada was slightly robbed, he would definitely have been on the podium if he skated a better short, he could be a potential future champion though.

It was one of the worst skates that I have seen from Brezina, the door was wide open for a place on the podium bet he couldn't take it. Disappointing. Righini skated well, definitely better than what he did on the GP.

 

[NicoleH]

Where would you have taken the points away? The GOEs were all earned and he was deducted appropriately on everything but the 4T. That would only be two points.

As for PCS, he should objectively be in the 9s on everything except perhaps SS. The routine is extremely well-choreographed and nuanced, and he performs it exceptionally. It's not "easy" choreography and since when was it a valid criticism to say the music is easy to choreograph? As if that gives him some secret advantage no one else has access to!

Well, fernandez should get -1 on that 4T, and his SS should be in the 7s, so that's 6 points less. He also should get only 7s in PE because of the mistake and because of his bad posture, that's another 4 points less. His interpretation is too cheesy and should get 8 at best, another 2 points less. So here's your 11-12 points and he'll score 188-189.

The music is easy to choreograph because fernandez always skates to this type of goofy funny music, so the same choreographer (David Wilson) is doing the same kind of choreography every season. Such an easy job!

 

[Florencito]

Totale disagree on interpretation. It fits the program perfectly and its not over the top. Tbh he's the only man I'd give a 10 in IN. Well, that according to nowdays pcs standards. I mean, i don't even know if king BUttle has ever bene given 8.5s.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Well, fernandez should get -1 on that 4T, and his SS should be in the 7s, so that's 6 points less. He also should get only 7s in PE because of the mistake and because of his bad posture, that's another 4 points less. His interpretation is too cheesy and should get 8 at best , another 2 points less. So here's your 11-12 points and he'll score 188-189.

The music is easy to choreograph because fernandez always skates to this type of goofy funny music, so the same choreographer (David Wilson) is doing the same kind of choreography every season. Such an easy job!

The bolded part is just

And this is more of a general message but all this reaction for Javi's scores feels like fear that he might beat someone at Worlds. Even Kovtun isn't getting the same attention, and he's, well, Kovtun. Especially in this particular competition.

At least Javi's placement was right, what's there to even discuss? In this competition wouldn't make a difference for him to score twenty points more or less in the FS, and I might not agree with some of his scores, but let's not downplay his talent that much. All his titles are well earned and he skates for most of his scores, if every now and then he gets a gift from the judges, for me that's more than fine. It would be worst if he actually skated horribly in both programs and still got the gold - which did not happen.

Let's chill, please.

 

[Hanmgse]

The bolded part is just

And this is more of a general message but all this reaction for Javi's scores feels like fear that he might beat someone at Worlds. Even Kovtun isn't getting the same attention, and he's, well, Kovtun. Especially in this particular competition.

At least Javi's placement was right, what's there to even discuss? In this competition wouldn't make a difference for him to score twenty points more or less in the FS, and I might not agree with some of his scores, but let's not downplay his talent that much. All his titles are well earned and he skates for most of his scores, if every now and then he gets a gift from the judges, for me that's more than fine. It would be worst if he actually skated horribly in both programs and still got the gold - which did not happen.

Let's chill, please.

Oh please don't .

I haven't seen anyone that says he didn't deserve to win, and discussions about scores always happen, that doesn't mean people downgrade his talent.
I don't have problems with his scores btw.

 

[daphenaxa]

all of those results

 

[Watermelondrea]

Where would you have taken the points away? The GOEs were all earned and he was deducted appropriately on everything but the 4T. That would only be two points.

As for PCS, he should objectively be in the 9s on everything except perhaps SS. The routine is extremely well-choreographed and nuanced, and he performs it exceptionally. It's not "easy" choreography and since when was it a valid criticism to say the music is easy to choreograph? As if that gives him some secret advantage no one else has access to!

It is easy however. None of the dance was entirely complex. And it is a valid criticism to say some music is more difficult to choreograph. Tell me, what would be easier to choreograph, Hanyu's Ballad or Javi's Free? Chans Free or Javi's? Javier's free skate has popular and frankly unoriginal choreography and it's a little too literal. Rolling the dice, checking the watch for me just makes it downright cheesy.

 

[Watermelondrea]

The bolded part is just

And this is more of a general message but all this reaction for Javi's scores feels like fear that he might beat someone at Worlds. Even Kovtun isn't getting the same attention, and he's, well, Kovtun. Especially in this particular competition.

At least Javi's placement was right, what's there to even discuss? In this competition wouldn't make a difference for him to score twenty points more or less in the FS, and I might not agree with some of his scores, but let's not downplay his talent that much. All his titles are well earned and he skates for most of his scores, if every now and then he gets a gift from the judges, for me that's more than fine. It would be worst if he actually skated horribly in both programs and still got the gold - which did not happen.

Let's chill, please.

This competition isn't the only problem, however. He scored over 200 at the GPF, and that was MILES better than this. At this rate, he'll soon be falling on 2 elements and still score above 200. I like Javier but I don't see him as the second best skater in the world. To me, Patrick Chan, Denis Ten and Shoma Uno all are more complete skaters. Just because they don't have 3 quads doesn't mean they aren't as good as him, because every time I mention this fact everyone points towards the fact that they don't have a "third quad." Which just proves how broken the system is. Let's not pretend that Javi's FS is some work of art like Denis, Patrick, Shoma, or even Yuzuru.

 

[daphenaxa]

It's interesting how Petrov's 3 Axel is huge, but the rest of his jump are quite small.

Also, why every skater of Mishin need to use Oblivion?

they don't do they?? I think they usually use Libertango

 

[silverfoxes]

This competition isn't the only problem, however. He scored over 200 at the GPF, and that was MILES better than this. At this rate, he'll soon be falling on 2 elements and still score above 200. I like Javier but I don't see him as the second best skater in the world. To me, Patrick Chan, Denis Ten and Shoma Uno all are more complete skaters. Just because they don't have 3 quads doesn't mean they aren't as good as him, because every time I mention this fact everyone points towards the fact that they don't have a "third quad." Which just proves how broken the system is. Let's not pretend that Javi's FS is some work of art like Denis, Patrick, Shoma, or even Yuzuru.

Shoma more complete than Javi...that's hilarious. He doesn't even get to pick his own music yet, he barely makes eye contact with the audience and you think "Nessun Dorma" is some great work of art? Nothing against him, but he's literally just out of juniors. He's not Daisuke level yet. Maybe he will be in a few years, but right now - no way.

 

[Watermelondrea]

Shoma more complete than Javi...that's hilarious. He doesn't even get to pick his own music yet, he barely makes eye contact with the audience and you think "Nessun Dorma" is some great work of art? Nothing against him, but he's literally just out of juniors. He's not Daisuke level yet. Maybe he will be in a few years, but right now - no way.

I mean I guess you're right...

 

[coucou84]

Was that win of over 60 points a record? My jaw was dropping looking at the scores when I was in class lol

 

[coldblueeyes]

This competition isn't the only problem, however. He scored over 200 at the GPF, and that was MILES better than this. At this rate, he'll soon be falling on 2 elements and still score above 200. I like Javier but I don't see him as the second best skater in the world. To me, Patrick Chan, Denis Ten and Shoma Uno all are more complete skaters. Just because they don't have 3 quads doesn't mean they aren't as good as him, because every time I mention this fact everyone points towards the fact that they don't have a "third quad." Which just proves how broken the system is. Let's not pretend that Javi's FS is some work of art like Denis, Patrick, Shoma, or even Yuzuru.

Why do we need to pretend something? Right now, I don't see any of those three surpassing a clean Javier. Not just because he has a third quad, but because he is at least trying to capitalize on what he can do best, and not trying to impersonate a character he can't do yet, trash talking his peers or just skating a clean program per season. If he is where he is it's because he's being rewarded for the work he's done, and not because others aren't being rewarded in comparison.

And not that I'm putting Javi and Yuzu at the same level, but right now Yuzuru can fall on two elements in his FS and score over 200. A year ago I doubt anyone was even expecting that. I just don't see how the judges would be overscoring him that much if the entire field wasn't suffering from the same - just evidenced by a lot of the scores at just this one competition.

I think we have to stop pretending this is just about Javi, because so far I can only hear about other skater X is not getting the scores Javi is getting, or Javi doesn't deserve 8s because his programs are cheesy while skater X is the real artist, or Javi's PCS are too high because his choreography is too easy compared to this one and that one and the third one. You might think the system is failing the skaters, but the judges are not marking placements anymore, they are scoring each skater separately. I don't think the best skater in a field doesn't deserve a 10 in PCS when none of the others can do what he can at the level of skating he is presenting.

I'm not saying every score Javi received here was deserved, but let's stop with this trend of taking points off his scores by chunks just because you don't like the way he's putting his programs out there.

 

[carmen7077]

So a hand down crappy quad, an obviously ur 3a and sloppy 3lo but 10 in performance?

Tell me the judges are not blind

 

[Sweet Dream]

Considering Kovtun's disastrous LP here, the prospect on Russian men's spots for 2017 Worlds does not look good at all.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Actually, I agree. His interpretation and performance is very "Han Yan-esque"...i.e. manufactured, lackadaisical... I wouldn't give higher than 8.75-ish for P/E and IN. 9.00 for the other three components is fine. His skating skills, while not at the level of Patrick, Yuzu, Denis, or even Shoma, are not that bad anymore.

 

[ruffledgrouse]

I just got back from work and checked the results. Is it true? Is really true?

Alexei got silver?!

 

[Elaine666]

I'm sorry, but when did Hanyu fall on two elements in FS and still score over 200? I must have missed an episode in past two months, or an episode yet to come?

 

[Elaine666]

And congrats to Deniss, nice debut:agree: