2017 Worlds Men's SP

[gmyers]

I'm sure there are SOME Russian coaches who are capable of improving their PCS. But yes, Russian men haven't been known for having world-class choreography... and you can tell from both Kolyada and Kovtun's SPs.

LOL at Kovtun for garbage jumps. Clearly you were asleep during his 4-3 combo and 3A and are only noting the fall on the 2nd quad (which, mind you, Kolyada did not attempt). It must infuriate you that he didn't implode and didn't get sub-40 PCS like you think he deserves.

Brown placed high because what he did execute was executed well. Jumps clearly aren't meaningless to his success because he would be in the final flight if he had harder jumps. However, as Jason proved, easier difficulty executed very well can challenge high difficulty that's performed average/subpar. That program was absolutely exquisite... and his and Chan's sophisticated skates to close the night were sublime, and made skaters like Kolyada look like juniors -- not that Kolyada's cutesy/cheesy skate didn't already do that enough.

Kolyada still skated very well and got a personal best (PCS personal best too), so that's still an improvement and a good takeaway. But I don't get the people lamenting over him getting a personal best and not challenging the top group who all skated lights out with quads, and being scored on par with a skater like Brown who didn't have a quad but did practically everything else better than Kolyada.

Maybe there are coaches like that in Russia for men but Why do almost all the other men train in North America? Why search all over Russia when you can just move to North America and just be considered like you are actually making effort and be coached by orser and get choreo from Wilson? It's just in dance. Refusal to recognize the best product is in North America and all your most talented people must move there to maximize potential.

Or he adds quad lutz to sp.

But he should do both.

He must move to North America and add quad to short.

Kovtun can land that salchow all he wants but it's the ugliest jump of all time.

Success is not only final flight. Going so far below all the other men in jumps but still making top 10 and being in medal contention is extremely astounding testament to spins steps pcs and is a message being sent.

 

[Ice Diva]

Yeah, Javi! He brings it again.

 

[newyn]

Thank you for the explanation! I thought the music was Irish - my bad! And I see what you mean about Kevin's costume! Here's a couple in Finnish folk attire: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/83/da/83/83da835a7e3865f7805d000057b78fe5.jpg

Yes! I think his outfit was inspired by this kind of outfit http://seurasaarenkansantanssijat.fi/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/oravainen_voyri.jpg

As as Finnish person I think it is a bit peculiar how many people have found the costume odd. Maybe it is indeed weird but his kind of getup is not a very rare sight at Finnish festivities so I guess I'm just used to it

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

There is no hating. His jump difficulty is so far below almost all others but he is 8th! That he's so good in other things doing quads is not necessary. He's like being great at figures when they dominated over free skating in some ways.

Yeah. And the grade of execution on his spins and footwork are above many of the others. Are you sure you looked at the other skaters and looked at the protocols before you made this sweeping "he should be worse than 8th" statement?

Let's look spins:

Brown got 13.2 points on spins.

Ten (9th):
Spins - 11.15 (2.05 points less than Brown)
Brown's solo lutz got 2.3 points less than Ten's solo quad (which likely got dinged for lack of preceding steps)

Kovtun (10th):
Spins - 11.41 (1.79 points less than Brown)
Kovtun obviously fell on his 4T too which was detrimental. Also, you hate him anyways so there's no point convincing you why Brown should have been ahead of him.

Bychenko (11th):
Spins - 10.16 (3.04 points less than Brown)

Reynolds (12th):
Spins - 10.21 (2.99 points less than Brown)
Reynold's solo 4S was about 1.6 more than Brown's solo lutz.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Maybe there are coaches like that in Russia for men but Why do almost all the other men train in North America? Why search all over Russia when you can just move to North America and just be considered like you are actually making effort and be coached by orser and get choreo from Wilson? It's just in dance. Refusal to recognize the best product is in North America and all your most talented people must move there to maximize potential.

Or he adds quad lutz to sp.

But he should do both.

He must move to North America and add quad to short.

Kovtun can land that salchow all he wants but it's the ugliest jump of all time.

Success is not only final flight. Going so far below all the other men in jumps but still making top 10 and being in medal contention is extremely astounding testament to spins steps pcs and is a message being sent.

How are they "considered like they are making effort"? You think a skater moves to North America and automatically their marks rise because of it?

Is Hanyu/Javier landing quads and winning simply a product of them being in Canada and not their inherent talent? I mean, the air is nicer up here, but we can't take credit for EVERYTHING.

 

[HanDomi]

It's all still open. I thought last year Hanyu had it in a bag with huge lead after short and well....

 

[OS]

I think there was a ton of emotion going through him in such a short time. I think he felt a lot of pressure because USFS was gambling on him to follow through and I'm sure he's at least aware that some people didn't think he should have been on the world team.

Also, I think he knew he was going against the tide by sticking to a no-quad strategy. I even found myself wondering if Jason would feel peer pressure and throw in that quad.

His reaction after he finished was of absolute relief. And his reaction at the K&C I think was based on the fact that he knew that all the other competitors had done quads and he wondered how he would score.

The odds were stacked against him today, especially how everyone was pretty much in their A game. With recent ascension of Nathen, for once Jason is playing the underdog with something to prove which he met the challenge admirably. No one really folded today, even Hanyu and Nathen, in any other year, they could be in podium positions.

Jasons program was done with clarity, attention to detail and sensitivity I have rarely seen in him deliver before. Sharper movements, never throw away for the sake to chase the next transitions. He was a different skater today. His sincerity really comes across and the program is finally polished. It is the sort of thing that should demand high PCS, and with this eurocentric panel, he needs to demand them. This ain't the US Nationals.

I am really looking forward to his FS now. Given today Nathen had faltered for the first time since US Nationals, it will be interesting to see if he still get the benefit of doubt as US #1. It is all about the chasing the quads. He and Hanyu are going to duel it out, as a nice little side competition for the quads king. The guys have nothing to do lose in a way, they may decide to go all in. (Please skate healthy, no injuries please) It is going to be incredibly exciting and unpredictable - Fast and Furious dramarama.

 

[icybear]

If only the judges were consistent with applying the criteria correctly! I'm sure if his country read RUS, USA, CAN, or JPN he'd be getting +2s regardless :handw:

So true. Nathan Chen gets more points than Boyang partially because he is competing under the USA flag.

 

[jenaj]

So true. Nathan Chen gets more points than Boyang partially because he is competing under the USA flag.

There weren't any US judges on the panel. Who do you think is biased in favor of the US?

 

[medvedevasocks]

It's all still open. I thought last year Hanyu had it in a bag with huge lead after short and well....

Yes it is open if Javier has a bad skate, similar to how last year it was open if Hanyu had a bad skate (which is what obviously happened). Just like last year that is the only scenario it is still open, for the gold atleast.

 

[gmyers]

Yeah. And the grade of execution on his spins and footwork are above many of the others. Are you sure you looked at the other skaters and looked at the protocols before you made this sweeping "he should be worse than 8th" statement?

Let's look spins:

Brown got 13.2 points on spins.

Ten (9th):
Spins - 11.15 (2.05 points less than Brown)
Brown's solo lutz got 2.3 points less than Ten's solo quad (which likely got dinged for lack of preceding steps)

Kovtun (10th):
Spins - 11.41 (1.79 points less than Brown)
Kovtun obviously fell on his 4T too which was detrimental. Also, you hate him anyways so there's no point convincing you why Brown should have been ahead of him.

Bychenko (11th):
Spins - 10.16 (3.04 points less than Brown)

Reynolds (12th):
Spins - 10.21 (2.99 points less than Brown)
Reynold's solo 4S was about 1.6 more than Brown's solo lutz.

You say my opinion is that Brown should be worse than 8th but then provide details of all the scores like my opinion has anything to do with Brown or the skaters below him being scored wrong. No one in this scenario was scored wrong. There is nothing wrong with the scores. The system in place has incredible rewards for spins steps and pcs is equal to tech. That's what Brown realizes and the genius of his programs.

How are they "considered like they are making effort"? You think a skater moves to North America and automatically their marks rise because of it?

Is Hanyu/Javier landing quads and winning simply a product of them being in Canada and not their inherent talent? I mean, the air is nicer up here, but we can't take credit for EVERYTHING.

If you have talent you must know to go to places that will package it correctly and refine and improve it. Everyone flocking to north America in men's and dance is not some kind of coincidence. Training in cricket club is great. It's like Harvard. Like training in novi.

 

[icybear]

There weren't any US judges on the panel. Who do you think is biased in favor of the US?

Most of them are Western judges so obviously they would be more biased toward US than China.

 

[luckyguy]

They probably think: "Man, if I improved my overall skating to the level of Brown, along with the quad I did, I'd be in final flight contention!"

Brown's PCS (45,10) are 33, 51% higher! than Kvitelashvili's PCS (33,78). It is simply a bad joke. A laie might think Kvitelashvili cannot skate.

 

[Ophelia]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yuzuru. :sad4:

 

[Nika09]

He's 5th. No combo and the -4.00 for no combo on the 4S with touchdown really hurt him. Lost about 10 points on that one. I still think it would have been close against Javier though, because Javier's jumping was ON today.

Let's also remember that Javier/Uno/Chen/Chan skated AFTER Hanyu, so the judges were marking Hanyu's jumps absolutely and not in comparison to those guys.... so Javier getting high GOE is all the more notable because it means the judges had seen Hanyu's jumping passes and decided (barely) that Javier's were better overall.


This is super frustrating though.... yet another competition this season, where Hanyu makes an error that leaves points on the table, erasing his technical advantage. And still going for that 4S, augh -- I wonder how that affects his confidence in the FS, where he has yet to land both 4S this season (if I recall correctly).

As they say, you might not win it in the long, but you can lose it in the short. He can still definitely move up in the FS and hopefully he does, but that's hard having to chase the leaders while amidst a couple of quad kings who have the firepower to surpass him if he doesn't skate close to his best.

Not a big relief
I predicted that Hanyu could get off podium, considering his consistency in making mistakes this season. But prefer it be a fair battle. His routine was better than I expected (the way he was trying managed combo was brilliant). And still let's consider that he has deserved his scores. But the fact Fernandez has overscored still is. There's no explain for less GOE in 3A and his PCS. Hanyu's transitions, interpretation, SS etc. was just crazy, there wasn't anything even close. It's huge unfairness here but...there is nothing to do. 10 points hard to catch. Shoma could do it though, wish him cleanest skate of season!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Not a big relief
I predicted that Hanyu could get off podium, considering his consistency in making mistakes this season. But prefer it be a fair battle. His routine was better than I expected (the way he was trying managed combo was brilliant). And still let's consider that he has deserved his scores. But the fact Fernandez has overscored still is. There's no explain for less GOE in 3A and his PCS. Hanyu's transitions, interpretation, SS etc. was just crazy, there wasn't anything even close. It's huge unfairness here but...there is nothing to do. 10 points hard to catch. Shoma could do it though, wish him cleanest skate of season!

Hah, I was wondering with the rippon 2T... was he planning a 4S+3T(Rippon)?! Hah, so far Evgenia is the queen of the Rippon 3T combos at this Worlds...

 

[Mango]

If Yuzuru is indeed following some kind of trend from the last Olympic cycle then he needs to be off the podium this year to win the OGM. That 2T helped things out.

But the scores after Javi are so close with all the quads the boys bring in the FS that there can be a lot of movement for any guy in the top 10 who does quads.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It's all still open. I thought last year Hanyu had it in a bag with huge lead after short and well....

Yeah, and Javier bombed at the GPF. But (fingers crossed), he is looking in great shape here... those quads were confident, secure, and very well-executed, and the 3A was arguably his best.

 

[Tavi...]

Most of them are Western judges so obviously they would be more biased toward US than China.

Really. And your proof?

By the way, did you happen to see who won pairs? Check out the judges.

 

[andromache]

There weren't any US judges on the panel. Who do you think is biased in favor of the US?

Nathan has the benefit of the US fed. China fed is probably better than, like, Slovenia fed, but still not as good as the big 4 (Russia/Canada/US/Japan).

That said, I think the PCS for both men made sense today (and usually make sense - I'm not a big whiner about Nathan's scores). If Nathan had skated cleanly there would've been a (deservedly) bigger difference. He has better skating skills and transitions, and it wouldn't surprise me if figure skating judges have subjective preference for Nathan's Choreography/Interpretation over Boyang's, considering the themes of the two programs. Skating judges probably don't appreciate SpiderBoyang the way fans do.