2017 Worlds Men's SP

[begin]

That's stingy, because it was borderline. :sad21:

IIRC the referees handle time violations and they're extremely strict. I've seen deduction for skaters who accidentally stop their blades a second after the music...and Yuzu was a good 2+ secs over his time limit .

 

[Li'Kitsu]

 Nathan had skated cleanly there would've been a (deservedly) bigger difference. He has better skating skills and transitions

Whut. I mean, whut?! Nathan has less transitions than Boyang. And after seeing them live, I wouldn't even give Nathan SS. Boyang has more one-foot skating, more multidirectional skating, more speed (and he does not need more crossovers to get it), and he uses his knees a lot more/better. Clean Boyang should never be behind Nathan, he should at least tie him in PCS. For these specific performances, Boyang should have won the PCS.

 

[Ares]

Shoma Uno reminds me of Satoko Miyahara, minus the pre-rotation issues. Both are very polished, all-around skaters (consistent jumpers, solid spins, skating skills) who finish their moves and interpret the music well. But they both get less PCS considering everything that they do. This may be because Uno is #2, but I think an argument can be made that both skate somewhat "smaller" than some of their competitors.

Ironic as Uno has also pre-rotation issues, mostly on quadruples and it's been talked to death here already. People also pick on his landings. Watch his quad flip in slo-mo and it becomes blatant. Some of his jumping technique shares similarities to Satoko even though his jumps are big and her miniature.

 

[euroskate]

Kutien posted links to the Russian forum in this post. Youtube videos are blocked but the videos under the gray button work.

unfortunately also already blocked. fujitv is quick

 

[magicalwords]

unfortunately also already blocked. fujitv is quick

I know the youtube ones are blocked. But if you click the gray button (idk what the word in Russian means) there's another video under it. Those videos work.

 

[andromache]

Whut. I mean, whut?! Nathan has less transitions than Boyang. And after seeing them live, I wouldn't even give Nathan SS. Boyang has more one-foot skating, more multidirectional skating, more speed (and he does not need more crossovers to get it), and he uses his knees a lot more/better. Clean Boyang should never be behind Nathan, he should at least tie him in PCS. For these specific performances, Boyang should have won the PCS.

:confused2: Agree to disagree, I guess. I only watched each performance once, and not live, just discussing the impression I had. Nathan seems faster, seems to use fewer crossovers, and I thought Nathan used his knees better than Boyang (though no one uses their knees as well as Shoma, duh). There's more smoothness/glide/effortlessness to his skating, to my eyes.

But there's multiple judges on a panel and they obviously have various perspectives, just as we do.

 

[Ares]

I have no complaints about the judging of this event.

Somehow ... I don't have either ... it feels unusual. I would nip off point here or there or add something to skaters but otherwise nothing really big, that could really shake things & placements up.

 

[chairmanmao]

I'd have given Javi just a bit less because of the trip on the crossover and the travel on the spin but overall this was the best performance of Malagueña I have ever seen. Definitely 10's on Interpretation and Choreography though I was slightly disappointed with the watered down step sequence. I thought the serpentine version was spectacular.

 

[NoNameFace]

okay, Pairs recaps checked, it was fairly earier for me to do it immediately after watching the competition live than now going to re-watch Men's...but from the scores and the fire I witnessed here during the actual skating today it sure is worth watching. As I really went ahead and watched most of SPs I'll split the vomit in two parts, because it would be not accessible to read at all

and the general thought is that...it was a living creature of a competition, a beast of a level of it proved by each performance after another. It really felt like one brilliant in its own way skater kind of inspired another skater to produce something special on his own. That explosive power and amazement/being dazzled by so many performances is really special and priceless for me, because it is truly what skating is about for me - seeing and apreciating different qualities, skills and styles presented in their prime form. Today's SP really shown an array of diversity and that there's a way to cherish that. I won't dwell onto scoring (much), GOEs, PCS, underrotations, contents etc., because I'm no expert on that (leaving it all to much skilled guys here), it will be purely subjective assessment, more of a bucket of impressions taken from all seen and how it resonates within me. I know there's probably a logical explanation of most of things happened today, but my logic and take on FS is generally a bit twisted, so...sorry not sorry And let me just express how uplifting was seeing majority of men so full of joy in K'n'C, they truly reached their best, not neccessarily our best considered, but the point of victory begins and ends with the skater himself I feel, so their joy is my joy even more.

Julian Yee is my revelation and one, big 'nuance' of this season. A solid basis skater with enormous amount of personality regarding every performance. And he really remind me in some areas of Daisuke Takahashi: the way he carries himself, that a bit 'diva' attitude, very loud, vivid expression, living out the music and musicality in movement. Great upper body work, he really accentuated music not only by elements (smart choreography with amazing step sequence!), but also by his body work in between. He really leaves a feel of complete performance, very united between technique and presentation. And one of true entertainers out there, so much sass!

Misha Ge won me once again...This is again a skater not scared to go all out with what he's got, and I feel like he's very particular about himself, going with his vision clearly described. Regardless of music and style, he's very flexible between them, ut always achieve that magnetic pull to the crowd because of his charisma embodied in every program he does. I feel like 'Liebenstraum' piece is shining at its best when it is not overshadowed nor overcooked by skater and his material and Misha managed to do that and produce something of timeless, classic quality. He may not fully own the content (as for jumps), but he owned the feel of the music translated into performance, that nostalgia and melancholy, and that made an impression. For me, it's even more difficult to do that using minimal approach,'stripped' from tricks and leaving only skater and music – Misha really did that in a very majestic way. And love his finishing of step sequence and spins in particular.

Brendan – OI OI OI!!!!!! Another revelation of discovery and growth this season, all goodie about him finally blooming like it should. Love his newly acquired confidence and coolness/relaxed feel about execution and whole deliverance of performances. It is so easy on eyes to appreciate and enjoy. I think that he's made for stuff like SP – a little bit cheeky, cool, laid-back, but still having that polish and elegance, a bit broken by his cute smle and fabulous hair (nothing to complain as tht's his way to own this stuff!). Looking at him, I feel like he has grown so much this season, as a skater and as a competitor foremost – he holds the pressure, his nerves and really killing it on ice, expanding his technical repetoire. There's a lot better ice coverage, use of his body in transitions, much improved facial expression, like a new Brendan entered this season, poised and determined like never before. And smashing his PBs from one competition to another, that's the spirit and maturity to achieve the best going step by step.

Deniss V. - a rockstar in making, no doubt about it. I'm glad beyond any gratitute that he and Ageless, Mighty Hot Stephane Lambiel united ad work together creating magic like we saw today. Really stellar quality and polish over every element and aspect of performance: crispness, musicality, great use of body in choreography expression, right amount of facial expression, control over execution and amp of the performance...It is really great to see how working with Lambiel enhance Deniss's best qualities, puts in use his great posture, stance, power and attack and solid basis, making him an amazing artist, superb performer. Highlights – the music choice and choreography so well illustrating guitar highs and lows, tempo changes (Lambiel Master!), the set of transitions before 3F, all spins were a different kind of bada**, sharp as knife and step sequence – I got shivers just during the beginning with this slow-mo right with guitar riff...To have skills and abilities is one thing, but to put them into a right use, to make them shine in their fullest and to develop them with a skater in process in another kind of story, which Deniss work with Lambiel is a perfect example.

Alexei Bychenko – he is my weakness as I have one for charming, talented men with tatoos, he's an eye-catcher no matter of material and execution, just striking, very uniue kind of presence pull for me. A case of 'masculine sass' – very much balanced in expression, just enough tuned up to express program in a vivid, bold way. Very complete and complex package to watch – from costume through black gloves giving that nice touch regarding his arm work, bow tie, whole character and charisma in presence, used for musical interpretation. With today performance I saw glimpses of Brian Joubert in his prime, the same energy and confidence in selling stuff, engagement into it. For me, he's got just fine balance between technical power and finesse of a performer, an ease with whom he's carrying himself, very 'nonchalant' and cool which I love. Some transitions and details in choreography were very nice, particularly just before last spin, that little 'tap' on hands to ice in slow-mo. And Parov Stellar is a great choice for Bychenko's way of expression and a bit quirk in his style, as he already established a signature for himself.

And Russian men to finish that part – Mikhail was definitely my top 5 performance, a real highlight. The way he embraced the convention, that feel of 'tackiness' and being not so serious was truly remarkable, because he still achieved being sophisticated, controlled and balanced in expression, not overcooking it. And this is the skater I can't imagine being not liked – he's too positive and poised,skilled and talented as a performer, too. There was just right amount of seriousness and focus in a skate that seemed more like a gala number, with all this ease, relaxed, entertainment feel about it. Strong techical content, executed with abandon and confidence and boy – that 3Lz was a work of art, in general I'm a rapt fa of his air position and speed of rotation, there's soemthing weirdly perfect and harmonious in it. Maxim is my hero regardless of that fall, becasue he did not let himself implode before program started nor during it. He put really his best effort there and still managed to engage into his story. He's got the goods, but what makes me happy the most is that he seems to create his own style and way of expression under Inna Goncharenko, getting comfortable with his own quirk, as before he was battling it instead of current embracement like it should be. Same goes to Mikhail – I see him as a 'particular style/aesthetic' skater, a man of specific way of expression/interpretaion which is great.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

To illustrate how good the short program event was:

Shoma, Patrick, Boyang, Kolyada and Jason has no negative GOEs at all.
In fact, Patrick and Jason has not even zeroes.

Javi has one -1.

Patrick had 12 points in GOE and Jason had 10 points despite being pretty much the lowest in BV which tells me how good the SP were. I can't wait to be able to watch.

 

[da96103]

THE SALCHOW HOLMES CUP OF SP CUTOFF SCORE

I will now announce the winners of the Salchow Holmes Cup of SP Cutoff Score competition held in the Men's Pre-Event Thread. Goldenskaters were asked to guess the lowest qualified short program score for the free skate.

The 24th skater who qualified for SP was Michael Christian MARTINEZ with a score of 69.32.

The guesses by 49 golden skaters were as follows:

GF2445 says 75.0
Puchi says 73.20
Marin says 73.04
Isabel_O'Reilly says 72.7
TontoK says 72.5
Liha says 72.24
sallycinnamon says 72.0
Snow White says 71.80
4everchan says 71.43
xeyra says 70.70
narcissa says 70.1
Caustica says 70.09
LRK says 70.0
d6886 says 69.89
Sabrina says 69.7
Skye says 69.69 (+0.37)
Seren says 69.57 (+0.25)
da96103 says 69.5 (+0.18)
Michael Christian Martinex 69.32
el henry says 69.13 (-0.19)
StitchMonkey says 68.95 (-0.37)
TT_Finn says 68.88
market says 68.71
jabberwocky18 says 68.70
AppleEmperor says 68.60
Frag says 68.5
cathlen says 68.47
Florencito says 68.19
L'Kitsu says 67.89
Becki says 67.8
Zebobes says 67.78
Ares says 67.67
NoNameFace says 67.57
Antyy says 67.52
karne says 67.38
shine says 67.24
Crossover says 67.2
eta says 67.18
Mango says 67.0
friedbanana says 66.95
randomfan says 66.83
Neenah16 says 66.6
Greta says 66.24
snowflake says 65.65
figurefan says 65.45
teeannroo says 65.35
Mathman says 65.00
ShiroKJ says 64.37
Sam-Skwantch says 64.20
Marius says 63.99

So the winners are:

Salchow Holmes Cup: da96103 69.5 (+0.18)
Silver: el henry 69.13 (-0.19)
Bronze: Seren 69.57 (+0.25)
Pewter: Two winners Skye 69.69 (+0.37) and StitchMonkey 68.95 (-0.37)

Thank you all for playing and those who took the initiative to research helpful information to help with the guesses. Please congratulate all the winners.

Please wait for the next edition of Salchow Holmes at the Olympics 2018. Pay attention to the whole season to guess the SP cutoff score for the Men's competition.

 

[jaylee]

One utof the PCS criterions is projection & contact with the audience and Jin had it in spades.

I agree, but outside of projection, I'm not as impressed with Boyang's Spiderman program in terms of components as others. Is it entertaining? Sure. But he's skating to a silly song with silly choreography. He could've dressed up as a clown and bellyflopped and the crowd would've laughed and been entertained. He looks kind of silly and unintentionally gawky performing some of the moves. He's not as fluid in terms of body movement as the other men and it shows. To his credit, Boyang obviously has fun with some of the moves and the crowd reaction, and tries to sell it as much as possible with his abilities.

IDK, I have the slightest bit of discomfort watching Boyang's Spiderman program. When I watch a comedic performance by Javier or Misha Ge, I don't have that feeling. I know they are purposeful in every single move, aiming to make the audience laugh. But Boyang? Are we laughing because the moves, when perfectly executed, are supposed to make us laugh? Or because he is making a bit of a fool of himself with these moves, and looks unintentionally silly? Or because he's having fun, and we're having fun? A combination of both?

Ironic as Uno has also pre-rotation issues, mostly on quadruples and it's been talked to death here already. People also pick on his landings. Watch his quad flip in slo-mo and it becomes blatant. Some of his jumping technique shares similarities to Satoko even though his jumps are big and her miniature.

OK, so maybe he and Satoko have a lot more in common than I originally thought.

 

[Ares]

102.13!!!! Wow!

Patrick was gorgeous. Not a foot placed wrong and everything was super-extra quality. That was better than standard clean Patrick - really special even for him, I didn't know that he could be even stronger. His 4T-3T was among the best I've ever seen for sure.

Free Skate will be big test but no matter what I am not going to forget his SP at very least.

Glad that he's still there delighting us with his performances in actual competition, that he was able to put in past certain disappointments and use it as a motivation.

 

[silverfoxes]

okay, Pairs recaps checked, it was fairly earier for me to do it immediately after watching the competition live than now going to re-watch Men's...but from the scores and the fire I witnessed here during the actual skating today it sure is worth watching. As I really went ahead and watched most of SPs I'll split the vomit in two parts, because it would be not accessible to read at all

You are really a fantastic, talented writer! I look forward to the rest of your "vomit"!

 

[bramweld]

SHOMO!!! GO LOCO LOCO AND WIN THIS THING :yes2:

 

[Bcash]

I agree, but outside of projection, I'm not as impressed with Boyang's Spiderman program in terms of components as others. Is it entertaining? Sure. But he's skating to a silly song with silly choreography. He could've dressed up as a clown and bellyflopped and the crowd would've laughed and been entertained. He looks kind of silly and unintentionally gawky performing some of the moves. He's not as fluid in terms of body movement as the other men and it shows. To his credit, Boyang obviously has fun with some of the moves and the crowd reaction, and tries to sell it as much as possible with his abilities.

IDK, I have the slightest bit of discomfort watching Boyang's Spiderman program. When I watch a comedic performance by Javier or Misha Ge, I don't have that feeling. I know they are purposeful in every single move, aiming to make the audience laugh. But Boyang? Are we laughing because the moves, when perfectly executed, are supposed to make us laugh? Or because he is making a bit of a fool of himself with these moves, and looks unintentionally silly? Or because he's having fun, and we're having fun? A combination of both?

I used to have a lot of issue with the performance aspect and skating basics of the Chinese skaters. I thought Chen Lu was only okay and the early S/Z positively wooden. But this kid Boyang surprised me with a program the style of which I normally wouldn't enjoy. I got the impression that his fun with this program, goofy or not, is much more genuine than the retro faux-goofiness that say S/M skated with in their SP or T/M in theirs. The shoulder shimmie looks a tiny bit cringy to me but I thought overall there was clear intention behind every move, and he's really enjoying it out there. The speed with which he flies across the ice only added to the overall buoyant mood. It's really just a very fitting interpretation to me. I smiled only because I saw that he was having fun and that his moves made on-the-nose references to a figure in pop culture. This feels like a sparkling, contemporary and youthful routine.

 

[Bcash]

:confused2: Agree to disagree, I guess. I only watched each performance once, and not live, just discussing the impression I had. Nathan seems faster, seems to use fewer crossovers, and I thought Nathan used his knees better than Boyang (though no one uses their knees as well as Shoma, duh). There's more smoothness/glide/effortlessness to his skating, to my eyes.

But there's multiple judges on a panel and they obviously have various perspectives, just as we do.

Nathan is pretty fast (I think all the men these days are), but Boyang, at least through TV screen, looks to be flying and also with more effortless acceleration. Nathan's problem to me is primarily little knee bend which makes his edges look even shallower than they actually are.

And for all the talk about his ballet training, Nathan really has very stiff shoulders and neck, with a lot of not-fully-committed arm movements. (No epoulement and poor port de bras, in ballet terms) Curious, because you would think Zueva would have pointed it out to him. And I'm speaking as a very serious long time ballet fan here.

 

[Skater Boy]

Definitely! Although since Nathen is figure skatings new golden boy you know the scores wont reflect it.

Sadly as we see you are right. They give him points like this was the Salvation Army or something.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I agree, but outside of projection, I'm not as impressed with Boyang's Spiderman program in terms of components as others. Is it entertaining? Sure. But he's skating to a silly song with silly choreography. He could've dressed up as a clown and bellyflopped and the crowd would've laughed and been entertained. He looks kind of silly and unintentionally gawky performing some of the moves. He's not as fluid in terms of body movement as the other men and it shows. To his credit, Boyang obviously has fun with some of the moves and the crowd reaction, and tries to sell it as much as possible with his abilities.

IDK, I have the slightest bit of discomfort watching Boyang's Spiderman program. When I watch a comedic performance by Javier or Misha Ge, I don't have that feeling. I know they are purposeful in every single move, aiming to make the audience laugh. But Boyang? Are we laughing because the moves, when perfectly executed, are supposed to make us laugh? Or because he is making a bit of a fool of himself with these moves, and looks unintentionally silly? Or because he's having fun, and we're having fun? A combination of both?



OK, so maybe he and Satoko have a lot more in common than I originally thought.

Oh why be such a spoilsport? Sometimes I want to eat haute cuisine, and sometimes I want to eat potato chips. It's like the Rockettes--they know they're kitschy as all git out and what they do they do very very well. Jin's program is a big bag of potato chips and I enjoyed it thoroughly and thought the score was fair.

But hey, de gustibus non est diputandum.

 

[yelyoh]

Nathan is pretty fast (I think all the men these days are), but Boyang, at least through TV screen, looks to be flying and also with more effortless acceleration. Nathan's problem to me is primarily little knee bend which makes his edges look even shallower than they actually are.

And for all the talk about his ballet training, Nathan really has very stiff shoulders and neck, with a lot of not-fully-committed arm movements. (No epoulement and poor port de bras, in ballet terms) Curious, because you would think Zueva would have pointed it out to him. And I'm speaking as a very serious long time ballet fan here.

Re your comment about his arms/por de bras. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. He gets it but just doesn't sustain throughout the program but I do see evidence of his ballet training and Marina's making use of it.