2017 Worlds Men's FS

[eta]

Calm down eta, Terpsichore was joking.

I really couldn't tell but I felt compelled to reply seriously when I laughed and chocked on my chocolate.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I can't tell if you are sincere or sarcastic. Have you watched the competition? Specifically the pre-rotations and scratchy landings?

Calm down eta, Terpsichore was joking.

I kinda was, indeed. As a big Hanyu fan, I prefered Shoma's fs, and I think he interpreted it better and that his skating skills are fantastic. But I still think yuzuru is the rightful winner for other reasons. It's interesting how the Japanese men in general never win with their best/most popular programs and I think that's part of the reason why the people on this board are frustrated

 

[jkun]

Has anyone else wondered what else Hanyu needs to do to get a +3 (+2.10) on his 3F? I think it's truly the most glorious jump. One of the most choreographically in sync jumps ever. He gets good height, distance, step before the jump, unexpected and very difficult entry, great exit and immediate transition. Honestly, if that jump isn't +3, I don't know what is. ..

 

[Yatagarasu]

Has anyone else wondered what else Hanyu needs to do to get a +3 (+2.10) on his 3F? I think it's truly the most glorious jump. One of the most choreographically in sync jumps ever. He gets good height, distance, step before the jump, unexpected and very difficult entry, great exit and immediate transition. Honestly, if that jump isn't +3, I don't know what is. ..

He has to hang in the air somewhere around the middle, do a polka dance, then resume the rotations and land. I think that'd do it.

 

[Fayruza]

He has to hang in the air somewhere around the middle, do a polka dance, then resume the rotations and land. I think that'd do it.

I wouldn't even count on that! The judges would think this is far too easy for him...
He has to learn to show how hard it is!

 

[Yatagarasu]

I wouldn't even count on that! The judges would think this is far too easy for him...
He has to learn to show how hard it is!

Well I suppose he could do Pas De Deux though then he'd be stepping on toes and blast, there goes that +3 again! Ah, such is life

 

[irriya]

I personally like Yuzuru's program better. I don't really understand Uno's music, and it drove me crazy especially the vocal part. And I don't quite like Uno's quart-jumps. It looks pre-rotated and under rotated to me, and it appeared to me that he was using the free leg swipe out toward back to help him balance when landing the jumps. Not confident enough and comfortably stretch. I do think his 3A3T in the second half is pretty amazing. I don't have problem that he got fully goe for that jump. But to say he received the same level of pcs as Yuzuru, I personally can't agree. But judges love him now, so we will see

 

[lennicky]

I have been a great fan of figure skating for years and I feel sad because I have the feeling that it is losing its essence in the male category. Doing the highest number of quads and triples has becoming more important than doing a good overall program. And young skaters like jin and chen and their coaxhes seem to have forgotten that figure skating is more than jumping. It also means to tell a story to the people, to live the music, to express something and to make people feel emotion. So, i would have liked javi to have been second today (hanyu was a fair winner). And I feel sad for him and for others skaters such as Chan, Brezina or kotvun who are really good skaters and really understand the essence of this sport but maybe they are too old to add more quads to their programmes.
I would like javi to win the olympic medal that he deserves (i,m spanish jaja) but I,m afraid he won't get it unless he add another quad. It"s sad, but it,s true.
To my mind, the ISU should put a limit in the number of jumps or figure skating will become in artistic gymnastics on ice.

 

[NaVi]

Random stat I counted out for the world championships.

Year: Number of clean, positive GOE quads in the freeskate
2017: 30
2016: 13
2015: 10
2014: 11 (Olympic year... no Chan)
2013: 10
2012: 10
2011: 9
2010: 6 (Olympic year)
2009: 6
2008: 5
2007: 4
2006: 6 (Olympic year... no Plushenko)

 

[Rissa]

Has anyone else wondered what else Hanyu needs to do to get a +3 (+2.10) on his 3F? I think it's truly the most glorious jump. One of the most choreographically in sync jumps ever. He gets good height, distance, step before the jump, unexpected and very difficult entry, great exit and immediate transition. Honestly, if that jump isn't +3, I don't know what is. ..

Do judges even give out +3 on jumps lower than a 3A?

That said, I agree, Yuzuru's 3F is, as besp gyus say, out of nowhere, looks like he's going for a twizzle and instead we've got a jump, and a a beautfiful teizxle right after. If any jump deserves all the goe, this is it.

 

[jaylee]

Ah, I see.

But really? Lol, I think you went overboard with "no one". I, and I bet most others, don't see anything wrong with winning either on TES or on PCS - as long as either is actually deserved and rivals are scored deservedly as well. Remember when Patrick won 4CCs over Boyang? Patrick was beaten soundly on TES across the 2 programs, actually he was beaten on TES in both programs, but he won on massive PCS and I don't recall anybody minding terribly. People were happy for Patrick. Sui/Han just won on TES and I by no means think they are the undeserving champions.

This seems like a nitpick. I said "no one" in reference to winning with "JUST PCS" or "JUST TES" alone. That's like Carolina Kostner coming out and popping all her jumps in a non-disruptive way, with beautiful skating skills and presentation and placing much higher than others since she gets PCS of all 10s. Would that make anyone happy?

Look, I can clarify my original statement to say that no one wants competitions to be won with a disproportionate amount of PCS versus TES or vice versa. The biggest controversies on this forum are typically when a skater who is disproportionately stronger in TES or PCS wins versus more balanced skaters (see Nathan Chen, who is disproportionately relying on TES, or Patrick Chan and Carolina Kostner, who have been inconsistent on the TES side and disproportionately helped by their PCS multiple times throughout their career).

I haven't forgotten the massive amount of hate that has been spewed at Patrick on these boards, particularly in the 2010-2014 quad, whenever he won a competition with a PCS advantage, which was multiple times. 2016 4CCs was an interesting case because he was going against a skater whose components were obviously weaker at the time, and he was in his comeback season, but it's the exception and not the rule with Patrick. On average, people were absolutely furious whenever he got wins with his PCS over skaters with higher TES.

I went out of my way to say that Hanyu deserved higher PCS and deserved his win here, and I don't disagree with you on Sui/Han. They barely lost PCS and they know its importance, so I'm sure that will encourage them to come out with amazing Olympic programs so that they can win both TES and PCS.

ETA: That "should win both tes and pcs" philosophy would be really iffy though, what if one skater wins SP both on TES and PCS, and another wins FS both on TES and PCS, but overall none of them has advantage in both categories? Like, really.

I meant overall combined TES / PCS scores, so there's only ever going to be one skater/team who has the highest TES overall across both segments and at most one other skater/team who has the highest PCS. I said "ideally" because I was talking about an ideal win, in which yes, the skater/team should have both the highest TES and PCS. What's the best-case scenario: Jason Brown wins with no quads and beautiful programs, Nathan Chen wins with quads and no choreography, or Yuzuru Hanyu wins with quads and beautiful programs? Yuzuru Hanyu, hands down. This is a sport with technical and artistic components and skaters should compete to have the highest TES and highest PCS possible. Neglecting one for the other is a strategy that doesn't work against skaters who are maximizing both and when everyone is at their best. Hanyu was totally following the strategy of maximizing both, and that's why he's the leader of the sport. He wasn't able to execute the combo cleanly in the SP and that was very costly for his technical score this time, but Uno botched that lutz in the FS and Hanyu got the PCS advantage he needed so Hanyu still got the win. Whether Hanyu deserved that much of a PCS advantage, whether he deserved more GOEs/whether Shoma deserved less, are arguments I'll leave to others because those weren't the arguments I was making.

 

[Lambari]

random stat i counted out for the world championships.

Year: Number of clean, positive goe quads in the freeskate
2017: 30
2016: 13
2015: 10
2014: 11 (olympic year... No chan)
2013: 10
2012: 10
2011: 9
2010: 6 (olympic year)
2009: 6
2008: 5
2007: 4
2006: 6 (olympic year... No plushenko)

W T F

also, i admire you patience.

 

[maxcellwire]

Looks like both Jason and Misha have been invited to the gala, can't wait to see this

 

[whatif]

Amazing competition.

Nathan Chen showed character here and with this tough experience under the belt, that bodes well for the next season.

 

[MaiKatze]

I do take Shoma seriously, he's one of my favorites. But you can't deny he would have beat Yuzu given the circumstances if he landed the Lutz more cleanly.

True, but imagine the backlash if that had happened to Shoma. It probably would've happened, though. Fernandez still had to skate. I think the judges never would've guessed he would fall apart. Poor him. It's just so unfortunate. You're the leader and then this. But he has nothing to be ashamed of, as this was the best skated event in history. The top 6 all could've been World Champions in lesser years, I think. I'm almost afraid Pyeongchang will be some disaster like Sochi again. I hope not, but...nerves.

 

[Rissa]

Entire post

Girl/dude, you're analysing way too much and you're making mountains out of molehills. The molehill of a grand TES difference of 1.03 as you helpfully calculated became a mountain of a cautionary tale. Uhhh, just what.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Do judges even give out +3 on jumps lower than a 3A?

That said, I agree, Yuzuru's 3F is, as besp gyus say, out of nowhere, looks like he's going for a twizzle and instead we've got a jump, and a a beautfiful teizxle right after. If any jump deserves all the goe, this is it.

Yes, and two judges did give him +3s. These are the GOEs

3F --> 2 1 2 2 3 3 2 2 2

How do you give a 1 for that jump? At that point I throw my arms in the air and laugh. I am telling you, he needs a polka dance.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Just catching up now.
Group 1:
Very sad expression from Hendrickx after his score. Poor guy.
I started drifting off to sleep during Tanaka. Fentz pretty sure I was snoring.
Yee really brought me back to life and Kvitelashvili - those quads, yes man!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[DiamondDust]

What would have happen if Uno rightfully placed over Hanyu. Honestly Hanyu could easily have been a zero-time World Champion if the scores had aligned correctly.

Ah! It's the one who never liked Yuzuru (I was looking forward to what you'll say, and this is expected )

Though scores in figure skating are often times NOT ALIGNED. Don't be bitter, give credit when it is due. Yuzuru was obviously lowballed on GOE's but he still overcame that hurdle with his TES and PCS combined. Score could've been higher IF THE SCORES HAD ALIGNED CORRECTLY. :agree:

 

[Blades of Passion]

Sympathies towards Javi.

The reality now is that you need to at least plan 4 Quads and not fall on at least 3 of them in your FS to safely remain within reach of the podium.

Javier would have won this competition if he skated perfectly. He failed to execute.

I think 6 quads was a little much and I wonder if he'll go for it again at WTT.

I don't think 6 quads was too much for Nathan actually (from a strategic standpoint). The mistake was planning to go for a second Quad Lutz. He re-adjusted the program after the opening fall and just went for a second Quad Toe, which is what he should have been doing anyway.