CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

[4everchan]

 

[CoyoteChris]

Maybe we have posters who avoid GS on the weekends of GP events. :reye:

It sure worked for me to avoid social media last weekend for Cup of China. I was able to watch INW "on demand" last night without any spoilers.....

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Listening to their comments was kind of funny cause they seemed to change their opinions drastically from JWC - they were praising her there for musical awareness, body movements, etc! Kurt even called her his favorite skater after Kaetlyn (or something like that)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_mKcMomZI

But now she became a threat to Kaetlyn and Gabby and that changed a lot in their perception of her

 

[BackSpiral]

I don't either.
First off, she is a fifteen year old girl. There is no excuse for criticizing a girl of her age that much for doing well. It's not like she murdered anybody or tried to commit treason or something. She skated well and in a way that would help her. It's what her coaches asked of her and it's what she delivered.

It's their job to commentate on skating which includes constructive criticism. It's not their jobs to be cheerleaders. I for one thought their analysis was spot on. Are flaws supposed to be ignored because she completed her jumps? If they did that then they would be unprofessional.

Secondly, I'm sick of the age being thrown out like just because she is 15 HER SKATING (not her personally) can't be criticized. Ever heard of Tara Lipinski? She was younger and was constantly criticized (even personally ridiculed) as being an inferior jumping bean skater. Christine Brennan was always writing some column criticizing her camp, her mother, etc. Criticism comes with the territory. Young Sasha Cohen and Sarah Hughes got flack too.

Edit: I just saw people referencing bickering above. This is the first thread I saw on this. I'm not bickering, just giving my opinion on CBC's commentary.

 

[kresslia]

Listening to their comments was kind of funny cause they seemed to change their opinions drastically from JWC - they were praising her there for musical awareness, body movements, etc! Kurt even called her his favorite skater after Kaetlyn (or something like that)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_mKcMomZI

But now she became a threat to Kaetlyn and Gabby and that changed a lot in their perception of her

Umm... except it was obvious even back then that she would be a threat, but keep pushing that narrative I guess.:sarcasm:

 

[draqq]

I would say that David Pelletier is certainly more critical than the other two commentators. But the other two had a more even tone; to be sure, they did say positive things about Zagitova as well. Other things that the CBC commentators said...

On her seven jumps in the second half: "It's an incredibly bold move, and she's lucky enough to be a good skater, musical, gifted, and flexible, a showman. And she carries those two minutes without any jumping elements."

After she finally starts jumping and completes the 2A+3T: "Well, that was worth the wait."

Replay commentary from Kurt: "I like the choice of the ballerina on the ice. It seems to suit her training, and it's a well-skated program... She's amazing!"

 

[Blades of Passion]

First off, she is a fifteen year old girl. There is no excuse for criticizing a girl of her age that much.

Every senior competitor should be criticized equally for what they put out on the ice.

How on earth do these people want things to go? First they complain "there's too many jumps at the beginning of the program". So the ISU gives backloaded jumps a bonus. And then "her program is too backloaded". Make up your mind.

What people want is jumps throughout the program, not only in one section. That's why the backloading bonus was put in place to begin with. It was a poorly implemented rule, especially when they put into the SP. I've predicted ever since 2012 that it would become a problem. Getting a bonus on all your jumps in the SP after skating for only 1 minute and 25 seconds, and doing only a couple technical elements in that time, makes no sense.

The thing I've been pushing for is going back to 8 required elements in the SP (multiple step sequences but each one being shorter than the current boring step sequences we have) and only giving a bonus to a jump that is at least the 6th required element of the program, and also never the first jump element. And I would give a mandatory 1 point deduction if the first three technical elements are all jumps.

For the Long Program, the bonus should be moved to the 60% mark of the program rather than the 50% mark, and the first two jump elements of a Long Program should never receive the bonus. If Zagitova or anyone else wants to fully backload all of their jumps under those rules (just as anyone currently can fully frontload), then they can feel free to. But of course they wouldn't. The only reason they do it now is exactly because of the rule in place.

Listening to their comments was kind of funny cause they seemed to change their opinions drastically from JWC - they were praising her there for musical awareness, body movements, etc! Kurt even called her his favorite skater after Kaetlyn (or something like that)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_mKcMomZI

But now she became a threat to Kaetlyn and Gabby and that changed a lot in their perception of her

Junior level skaters are given less harsh criticism. It was expected that Zagitova would grow from what she showed last season, but there hasn't really been growth in her skating, she has actually just diminished from what she showed last season. Her performing quality has becoming more self-aware and the jumps have become tighter and her choreography sequence first shown at Russian Nationals was watered down. She's obviously still very talented, but there are issues with her skating that now need to be addressed.

 

[madison]

Every senior competitor should be criticized equally for what they put out on the ice.



What people want is jumps throughout the program, not only in one section. That's why the backloading bonus was put in place to begin with. It was a poorly implemented rule, especially when they put into the SP. I've predicted ever since 2012 that it would become a problem. Getting a bonus on all your jumps in the SP after skating for only 1 minute and 25 seconds, and doing only a couple technical elements in that time, makes no sense.

The thing I've been pushing for is going back to 8 required elements in the SP (multiple step sequences but each one being shorter than the current boring step sequences we have) and only giving a bonus to a jump that is at least the 6th required element of the program, and also never the first jump element. And I would give a mandatory 1 point deduction if the first three technical elements are all jumps.

For the Long Program, the bonus should be moved to the 60% mark of the program rather than the 50% mark, and the first two jump elements of a Long Program should never receive the bonus. If Zagitova or anyone else wants to fully backload all of their jumps under those rules (just as anyone currently can fully frontload), then they can feel free to. But of course they wouldn't. The only reason they do it now is exactly because of the rule in place.



Junior level skaters are given less harsh criticism. It was expected that Zagitova would grow from what she showed last season, but there hasn't really been growth in her skating, she has actually just diminished from what she showed last season. Her performing quality has becoming more self-aware and the jumps have become tighter and her choreography sequence first shown at Russian Nationals was watered down. She's obviously still very talented, but there are issues with her skating that now need to be addressed.

Again generalization, you'd better say that some people want....and especially those who are really scared that the Russians use this and have an advantage because while the GOE is still subjective and even the URs can be subjective, the bonus is not

 

[viennaskater]

You know what's rude and unprofessional in the first place?

TALKING ITSELF through the 80% of a skate.
I can barely hear the music, feel the rhythm, notice hitting musical accents, etc...

Same with Zhurankov - Russian Eurosport guy. SHUT UP and let viewers enjoy the sport. :confused2:

Absolutely - a commentator is not doing his/her job properly if they do that. The only times they should talk during the programme (if at all) is if they make a brief observation about an element which could be helpful to the viewer.

It makes me mad when they are just gossiping during a performance. It rarely happens with the British commentators but the Russians and Germans?? Oh yes!

 

[Grin]

It looks like some people here are going to defend Canadian commentators who acted unprofessional (jokes during performance about bathroom and popcorn, bs about "nothing is happening in the 1st half" and 3lo<<).
Do you really want Ted Barton to be the exception in the common rule or what? It's not about backloading or Alina's skills. It is about lack of respect, lies and bitching during perfomance from a professional commentator.

 

[Mango]

This is a general comment about Canadian commentary.

I think people who are reacting to Canadian commentators this season don't generally listen to them. Like if you have been listening to Tracy, Kurt, Carol, and David for the past few seasons you'd know they aren't doing anything new or different. This is the way they are. They were hired for their credentials - World Champions, Olympic medallists, and/or coaches and choreographers. They offer their opinions and some insights. Sometimes they're complimentary, sometimes they're harsh. Usually they can offer something in terms of technical insight. Other times they know a skater well and can pick up on things the rest of us wouldn't know (like Kurt when talking about Yuzuru). Sometimes they can't contribute much and say general things (e.g. Kurt during ice dance). Watch for a while and you'll get to know when they're really being mean or they're doing their usual stuff.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Again generalization, you'd better say that some people want

No it isn't a generalization. That is exactly what every person who voted upon the SP rule wanted when it was conceived and implemented by the ISU (similarly when it was originally put in as a LP rule last decade), and what every commentator wants to see who has talked negatively about this kind of program construction. I was the person who pushed it into the technical committee of the ISU to begin with and then it got changed through bureaucratic incompetence, eventually being presented at full ISU council as "jumps past the halfway mark of the SP receive a 10% bonus". The intention was still the same, to stop skaters from clustering all of their jumps at the start of the SP, and the ISU didn't think it would result in skaters just doing a footwork sequence in the first half of their SP and then reeling off all 3 of their jumps right after the halfway mark (although I knew this would eventually be the result, given the way they implemented the rule, you can find me talking about it in the Goldenskate archive).

especially those who are really scared that the Russians use this

It has nothing to do with being scared of Russians. The rule was created when no Russians were trying to backload and when senior Russian ladies skating was in one of its worst states ever. In fact, Russians historically almost always frontloaded their programs. It's only in recent years that things have changed and it doesn't matter who has decided to exploit the rule, it's something that needs to be fixed regardless.

Reading your comments, it would appear you only say the things you say because you're trying to defend "Russian skating".

 

[Sam L]

Backloading is beautiful. There is nothing more exciting than the build up to jumps. It’s risky, it’s exciting and it’s damn hard. That’s why it should be fully rewarded. I’m an adult skater and when I have my own programs I will backload also, if I can, NOT because I want to win but because I think it’s beautiful.

The first time I heard about Alina was on this board from a poster talking about her debut in the JGP events and how this girl fully backloads all her programs. I’ve been fascinated with her since.

 

[draqq]

The simplest rule change I can come up with for the bonus issue is just say that the only the last four jump elements in a program count for bonus - and that applies for both ladies and men. The same should apply for lifts in the pairs - so perhaps only the last two lifts count for bonus - as we only see the top teams doing lifts in the back half now for the bonus.

 

[Kittosuni]

This is a general comment about Canadian commentary.

I think people who are reacting to Canadian commentators this season don't generally listen to them. Like if you have been listening to Tracy, Kurt, Carol, and David for the past few seasons you'd know they aren't doing anything new or different. This is the way they are. They were hired for their credentials - World Champions, Olympic medallists, and/or coaches and choreographers. They offer their opinions and some insights. Sometimes they're complimentary, sometimes they're harsh. Usually they can offer something in terms of technical insight. Other times they know a skater well and can pick up on things the rest of us wouldn't know (like Kurt when talking about Yuzuru). Sometimes they can't contribute much and say general things (e.g. Kurt during ice dance). Watch for a while and you'll get to know when they're really being mean or they're doing their usual stuff.

I think the criticism to the commentators is when they said "nothing is happening in the beginning of the program because she is not doing any jumps" which is a COMPLETE FALSE.

They make it sound like its all about the jumps when in fact there are 5 NON-JUMPING ELEMENTS and Alina did 3 non-jumping elements in the beginning where her spin and STSQ was given level 4 and both elements awarded the highest GOE in the competiton. Her ChSq1 was awarded 1.50, second highest to Higuchi.

This might not look problematic to us who has some knowledge but its a big problem for casual fans who rely on the commentators for information.

I really don't care if they criticize a skater but giving false information is wrong and should be called out

 

[Lily flowers]

The simplest rule change I can come up with for the bonus issue is just say that the only the last four jump elements in a program count for bonus - and that applies for both ladies and men. The same should apply for lifts in the pairs - so perhaps only the last two lifts count for bonus - as we only see the top teams doing lifts in the back half now for the bonus.

In my opinion, that would be boring. The skater should do their jumps whenever they want to do them during a program. why stop a them from earning more points? Also with this rule, most skaters will have similar, maybe the exact same, jump layout. Non of us would like that. The ISU might as well decide what each jump a skater does...

 

[madison]

No it isn't a generalization. That is exactly what every person who voted upon the SP rule wanted when it was conceived and implemented by the ISU (similarly when it was originally put in as a LP rule last decade), and what every commentator wants to see who has talked negatively about this kind of program construction. I was the person who pushed it into the technical committee of the ISU to begin with and then it got changed through bureaucratic incompetence, eventually being presented at full ISU council as "jumps past the halfway mark of the SP receive a 10% bonus". The intention was still the same, to stop skaters from clustering all of their jumps at the start of the SP, and the ISU didn't think it would result in skaters just doing a footwork sequence in the first half of their SP and then reeling off all 3 of their jumps right after the halfway mark (although I knew this would eventually be the result, given the way they implemented the rule, you can find me talking about it in the Goldenskate archive).



It has nothing to do with being scared of Russians. The rule was created when no Russians were trying to backload and when senior Russian ladies skating was in one of its worst states ever. In fact, Russians historically almost always frontloaded their programs. It's only in recent years that things have changed and it doesn't matter who has decided to exploit the rule, it's something that needs to be fixed regardless.

Reading your comments, it would appear you only say the things you say because you're trying to defend "Russian skating".

No, I'm not defending 'Russian skating'...I just don't understand all this big buzz on backloading It does not bother me, in fact I'm neutral when it comes to backloaded programs. I can like both backloaded and not backloaded programs.

 

[Grin]

I just hate that some people are trying to change the subject here. If you want to talk about backloading/frontloading, you a free to make a thread about it. This thread is not about Eteri or her school either. It's about Canadian commentators who acted unprofessional and got away with that, some people even praised them. And that should't happen in healthy society.

 

[zounger]

They have the right to say whatever they want. I guess they didn’t say anything against the law or constitution of Canada. So no crime with what they said. And criticism, when it is constructive is desirable and the right thing to do.

I have the habit to watch different commentaries from different TV channels just to take more neutral point view of what I just saw in competition. It brings me back to balance for skaters that I have non-balance point of view. I notice that CBC has sometimes this kind of British humor on commenting which is not bad since their audience is Canadians so they are familiar with it.

As neutral audience though (nor Canadian, nor Russian) I found the comment about the toilet border line rude and a sense of empathy rather than criticism. Just for that comment, I’m not talking about the other stuff they comment about. And that comment is actually what triggered all this conversation. Let’s not hide behind our finger, that was not good neither a constructive criticism.

At the point he says that we should go to bathroom she is doing a Charlotte spiral. How many Charlotte spirals did we saw in this event?

 

[Kittosuni]

I just hate that some people are trying to change the subject here. If you want to talk about backloading/frontloading, you a free to make a thread about it. This thread is not about Eteri or her school either. It's about Canadian commentators who acted unprofessional and got away with that, some people even praised them. And that should't happen in healthy society.

Totally agree with you. People are missing the point.

Instead of being helpful the Canadian commentators were spreading false information and false assumptions creating more problem.