Wagner "furious" on scores

[MK's Winter]

I don't think we are seeing a dumping of Ashley to be honest. I we saw her marked appropriately for the first time in a long time. I enjoy Ashley's presence on the ice, her expression. This season went wrong for her for a couple of reasons. I think she should have done a new short. Hip Hip 2.0 didn't really have it this season. The program content, jumps removed wasn't really there. Ashley skates from the waist up not the skate up. It's 2 foot skating with upper body movement. Bradie was asked to ditch Cinderella at champs camp but didn't. This is where I think Ashley should have followed suit. Ashley does have a wonderful ability to grow a program (MR 16). I think the PCS could have been different here had she kept it. I think the jumps could have been smoother because it would have been more trained and comfortable. Another element that held her down was spins. Mirai, Karen, and Bradie all capitalized from +GOE and spin levels. With her small mistake in the short, the single Sal and UR lutz in the long, she couldn't afford to leave spin levels on the table, especially against Mirai and Karen who are have beautiful spins. Do I think it's under training- a little bit, but mostly I think age plays a factor as well. Figure skating is hard on the body at any age. It's probably harder at 26.

The death nail imo, was Skate America, her presser after withdraw, and the sudden switch back to La La Land. Had Ashley gritted out that long, I feel like she could have been fourth and it more than likely would have cemented her spot.

 

[yume]

Her reaction is not so atrocious. It's not the Surya Bonaly level. And even her i can understand her reaction.

 

[crazydreamer]

Ashley has sacrificed a lot, training to the age of 26, damaging her body and in particular her memory in ways she may never repair. If she had not pushed through her health issues to skate the past few years, it is very possible the U.S. might not have a third spot at this Olympic games for Karen to take. To see that all go potentially because of unusual PCS scoring by a skating federation that she has done a lot for is no doubt hard to accept. Let's just remember that before we get all snarky and condescending about how "furious" she is that she will not make the Olympic team.

People have said she is hurting herself or showing bad politics by criticizing USFSA, but I think it's the opposite. USFSA has a lot to lose by damaging its relationship with its most famous and internationally well-regarded skater.

 

[medoroa]

People have said she is hurting herself or showing bad politics by criticizing USFSA, but I think it's the opposite. USFSA has a lot to lose by damaging its relationship with its most famous and internationally well-regarded skater.

In what way? With all respect to what Wagner has accomplished, she's no Michelle Kwan and the sport isn't what it has been in the US. USFSA won't lose viewers or money if she retires (which she'll probably do anyway) or talks ill of them to reporters.

 

[flipsydoodle]

I see that Ashley is first alternate for the Olympic spot. Does anyone see her continuing to practice? She’d need nose to the grindstone to be ready. Imagine the dynamic on the ladies Olympic team if she ends up substituting after giving her “I was clearly better than them, this is just so unfair, because I’m a performer” outburst.

I hope Ashley begs off and Mariah gets the first alternate spot. She’s gracious, did two high quality performances, and clearly works hard. You can expect her to continue practicing for the chance to be on the Olympic/Worlds team. She earned the substitution.

 

[Barb]

Ashley has sacrificed a lot, training to the age of 26, damaging her body and in particular her memory in ways she may never repair. If she had not pushed through her health issues to skate the past few years, it is very possible the U.S. might not have a third spot at this Olympic games for Karen to take. To see that all go potentially because of unusual PCS scoring by a skating federation that she has done a lot for is no doubt hard to accept. Let's just remember that before we get all snarky and condescending about how "furious" she is that she will not make the Olympic team.
.

It is unfair considering that the main reason for the 3rd spot was Karen. By the way, all the skaters are pushing their health, Mao still have problems with her knee, Yuna always had problems with her back, Karen competed sick at Nationals, etc.

 

[GGFan]

Ashley's feelings are very important but there are others involved here and the competition is bigger than her. There was an actual winner of the competition. To make it simple, the 4th place finisher should not be trying to steal everyone's thunder by going to the press about how furious they are. I'm sure she's already rethinking how she handled this.

Many Olympic dreams have been dashed over the years--that's part of the game and life in general. That's why you have friends and family to complain and cry to. You do not need to share your sour grapes with the press. If you have some eloquent points to share about judging think them through and state them in a compelling way.

 

[crazydreamer]

In what way? With all respect to what Wagner has accomplished, she's no Michelle Kwan and the sport isn't what it has been in the US. USFSA won't lose viewers or money if she retires (which she'll probably do anyway) or talks ill of them to reporters.

I don't know how USFSA makes money, but I presume it's through sponsors willing to help fund events, broadcast networks, and fundraising events. Ashley may not have Michelle Kwan levels of fame, but she's been at the top of US skating for a decade. Karen is still a newbie, having won nationals once in a non-Olympic year. Mirai has not been in the news in at least four years. Bradie is a rockstar technically but unknown and not very charismatic. There is a reason Ashley had the sponsorships. My boyfriend, who does not follow skating, recognizes her and Gracie and nobody else. The same is true with other friends who basically only watch skating during the Olympics. With Gracie absent and psychologically damaged and Ashley angry, the USFSA potentially has no stars to call upon on their behalf in seeking money, in putting together events, or in otherwise advertising itself.

 

[onyxrose81]

The way people talk about Wagner likes she's the second of Kwan and that the US will lose something if she's not there. It's figure skating at the Olympics, they'll be fine.

 

[Barb]

I don't know how USFSA makes money, but I presume it's through sponsors willing to help fund events, broadcast networks, and fundraising events. Ashley may not have Michelle Kwan levels of fame, but she's been at the top of US skating for a decade. Karen is still a newbie, having won nationals once in a non-Olympic year. Mirai has not been in the news in at least four years. Bradie is a rockstar technically but unknown and not very charismatic. There is a reason Ashley had the sponsorships. My boyfriend, who does not follow skating, recognizes her and Gracie and nobody else. The same is true with other friends who basically only watch skating during the Olympics. With Gracie absent and psychologically damaged and Ashley angry, the USFSA potentially has no stars to call upon on their behalf in seeking money, in putting together events, or in otherwise advertising itself.

So, if the US federation is losing without her, why people think that they did dump her?, What they won doing that?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

. My boyfriend, who does not follow skating, recognizes her and Gracie and nobody else. The same is true with other friends who basically only watch skating during the Olympics. .

Isn’t it possible that one of the talented athletes who made the Olympic team for the US can make a lasting impression and rise to the level of notarity Ashley has enjoyed. I think they all have the ability to create a magic moment on the ice and give us inspiration. That’s kind of what the Olympics are all about. They’ve all worked just as hard as the other for the same opportunity.


I’m actually glad that the NHL is out of the Olympics because it creates a new platform for aspiring players to make a name for themselves internationally. It’s a great thing even though I’ll miss some of the stars of the game.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Her reaction is not so atrocious. It's not the Surya Bonaly level. And even her i can understand her reaction.

We’re comparing degrees of unsportsmanlike behavior? Ashley’s gracelessness is not as bad as Bonaly’s was, so we should give her a break?

 

[OS]

Yuna complained about the call in her lip and about japanese skaters disturbing her warm-up. But yes, in general, asian skaters don´t complain much like skaters from other countries.

For the record, she had NEVER complained about ANY Japanese skaters. Things have been taken out of context from an interview when she was questioned about warm up, and typically sensationalist Korean media put words into her mouth, clips to boot spun it to their sensationalist rating agenda. Then this got picked up by Japan press, then Japan federation issued a press release about something she did not say. The whole thing was ridiculous. Then Mao fans have been jumped onto this urban legend/half-truths wagon forever just to bash her because they can't bash her on ice. Nor has she complain about bad calls other than being confident her flip is fine, which is supported her coach in public. If her coach thinks is fine, what is she supposed to do?! Disagree with her coach?

In any case, whether skater does or does not complain, does or does not love skating, or have the worst diva attitude in the world, or even being a Tanya, these should have no bearing on the judging of this 'SPORT'... A sport should not be a PC contest, a political favour trade show, a personality award, a pageantry contest. Treat all skaters with respect, equally, give what they deserve, with quality, fairness, consistency, honesty and transparency.

Skaters are human, they have emotions, they have their own personalities, they have the right to express them, especially defend themselves when they are blatantly robbed. PCS that is earned should be scored accordingly... otherwise we might as well discount a few of Nathen's quads, for apparently his tracksuit is boring and not to everyone's taste and many thought Shoma's deep V neck is sexier (lol)... I mean WTH has that to do with the sport?

 

[Mista Ekko]

The way people talk about Wagner likes she's the second of Kwan and that the US will lose something if she's not there. It's figure skating at the Olympics, they'll be fine.

I didn't see anyone here saying stuff like that...

 

[crazydreamer]

It is unfair considering that the main reason for the 3rd spot was Karen. By the way, all the skaters are pushing their health, Mao still have problems with her knee, Yuna always had problems with her back, Karen competed sick at Nationals, etc.

Karen scored highest, but Mariah bombed and Mirai had no triple axel and was inconsistent. It seems very likely that without Ashley's solid, if disappointing, finish, the U.S. likely would not have 3 spots at this Olympics this year, and Karen would not be going. Moreover, if Ashley hadn't been at worlds in 2016, the U.S. may have lost 3 spots that year, in which case Karen's fourth place finish in 2017 and Mariah's eleventh (moving her up one position due to Ashley's absence) definitely would not have secured the U.S. three spots this year.

I also don't think a cold compares to several concussions, or that skating at age 18-19 is comparable to skating at age 26. The alternative professional opportunities at those ages are dramatically different.

I say these things not to demonstrate that Ashley should be going to the Olympics, only to defend her "fury" over the unfortunate situation, which I think is understandable.

 

[Barb]

For the record, she had NEVER complained about ANY Japanese skaters. Things have been taken out of context from an interview when she was questioned about warm up, and typically sensationalist Korean media put words into her mouth,

so, what she said? I remember that even her fans were defended her by saying that she said no names, but she complained about it.

 

[sabinfire]

With Gracie absent and psychologically damaged and Ashley angry, the USFSA potentially has no stars to call upon on their behalf in seeking money, in putting together events, or in otherwise advertising itself.

There will be a new generation of stars after the PyeongChang Olympics. And Mirai has been around quite awhile and is well-liked by American skating fans. We'll be fine.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Ashley has sacrificed a lot, training to the age of 26, damaging her body and in particular her memory in ways she may never repair. If she had not pushed through her health issues to skate the past few years, it is very possible the U.S. might not have a third spot at this Olympic games for Karen to take.
......
.

Ashley chose to continue skating. She was making a living skating. No one was forcing, messing up her memory, or damaging her. There was no “sacrifice” here: there was a decision she made as an adult after evidently weighing the pros and cons. Just like all the other skaters in the competition.

There are no rewards for “sacrifice” in elite competition. It’s about performance.

 

[minze]

For the record, she had NEVER complained about ANY Japanese skaters. Things have been taken out of context from an interview when she was questioned about warm up, and typically sensationalist Korean media put words into her mouth, clips to boot spun it to their sensationalist rating agenda. Then this got picked up by Japan press, then Japan federation issued a press release about something she did not say. The whole thing was ridiculous. Them Mao fans have been jumped onto this urban legend/half-truths wagon forever just to bash her because they can't bash her on ice. Nor has she complain about bad calls other than being confident her flip is fine, which is supported her coach in public. If your coach thinks is fine, what is she supposed to do?! Disagree with her coach?

In any case, whether skater does or does not complain, does or does not love skating, or have the worst diva attitude in the world, or even being a Tanya, these should have no bearing on the judging of this 'SPORT'... A sport should not be a PC contest, a political favour trade show, a personality award, a pageantry contest. Treat all skaters with respect, equally, give what they deserve, with quality, fairness, consistency, honesty and transparency.

Skaters are human, they have emotions, they have personality, they have the right to express them, especially defend themselves when they are blatantly robbed. PCS that is earned should be scored accordingly... otherwise we might as well discount a few of Nathen's quad, for apparently his tracksuit is boring and not to everyone's taste and many thought Shoma's deep V neck is sexier to the judges (lol)... I mean WTH has that to do with the sport?

So 2010We need new fandom wars. I just came back for Nationals. Who are the new rivals?

 

[melis]

It bothers me that she immediately attacked the judges without doing any self reflecting. She has labeled herself as "a performer" and thinks she is always entitled to high pcs? She should have gotten more feedback from the judges before debuting a new program at what is essentially the Olympic trials. I for one thought the cuts were choppy and the choreography lackluster.