Trusova and Quads

[MaiKatze]

I'm all up for that! She was 5 when Tangled came out in 2010, I have no doubt she'd enjoy skating to it, since she was inspired by it. We already have Mai and Bradie skating to Cinderella, let's add Tangled to the figure skating repertoire! [emoji16]

She's still certainly young enough to make it work. I especially love a track called 'Kingdom Dance', would work great as a short program!

 

[cell]

The quad salchow looked quite a bit prerotated when I played it back in slow motion ... I'm not hating but ISU seems to ignore that for everyone for some reason while penalizing under rotations

 

[Shayuki]

The quad salchow looked quite a bit prerotated when I played it back in slow motion ... I'm not hating but ISU seems to ignore that for everyone for some reason while penalizing under rotations

It is not pre-rotated past 180 degrees in the slightest in relation to where the jump is traveling.

 

[cell]

It is not pre-rotated past 180 degrees in the slightest in relation to where the jump is traveling.

Ok I'll rewatch a bit later...

 

[Latremu]

She's still certainly young enough to make it work. I especially love a track called 'Kingdom Dance', would work great as a short program!

That's where they were dancing with the townspeople and the muscle c became faster and faster! The energy would suit her very well, and she can jump some quads in there. [emoji1]

 

[cell]

It is not pre-rotated past 180 degrees in the slightest in relation to where the jump is traveling.

I think I need to see it in super slow mo because when watching in slow mo it looked like as much as half the rotation was on the ice before she truly took off although it's a bit difficult to tell exactly... Is there a super slow mo available?

 

[Shayuki]

I think I need to see it in super slow mo because when watching in slow mo it looked like as much as half the rotation was on the ice before she truly took off although it's a bit difficult to tell exactly... Is there a super slow mo available?

Of course. 60 FPS super duper slow-mo by yours truly:

https://streamable.com/wea3g

 

[Mawwerg]

I'm intrested what changed between Europeans and Russian Cup final. Since JGP in Brisbane and until Europeans her quad salchow looked not good. She landed it occasionally and
usually underrotated. And then her quads quality dramatically improved. At Russian Cup final she already hadn't any problems with her salchow and was confident enough to add quad toe to the program. Recently at Junior Worlds she landed a number of salchows and toes at practices and in program and almost all of them were good. Seems like she changed something in her technic but I can not find what.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Of course. 60 FPS super duper slow-mo by yours truly:

https://streamable.com/wea3g

Thanks for the slow mo but this is comparing a 4S to a 3S?!

I think she just rotates enough on the salchow. Her 4T has pre-rotation on the pick beyond 180 but I'm not a stickler for that. It was hard to tell in real time if the rotation on the landing was good enough.

Trusova should work on tightening her legs more, there's an obvious gap which affects the aesthetics and speed of rotation. She could land it fully rotated without question each time if she worked on that.

 

[[email protected]]

I have to dismiss all those situations now that I am here for so many years. But still can't.

Group 1: What an amazing achievement - for the first time in history 2 fully ratified different quads in a ladies' program!

Group 2: she is not a lady - she is a poor little girl who is definitely damaging her body.

Group 3: Were those jump quads? We doubt it.

 

[Shayuki]

Thanks for the slow mo but this is comparing a 4S to a 3S?!

Yeah, I'm comparing Trusova's quad salchow's rotation speed to Akatieva's triple salchow's rotation speed. That's the purpose of this video.

However, it also is a 60 FPS super duper slow-mo of Trusova's quad, which was requested.

Compare triple salchow max rps in this chart to see why I made this comparison.

 

[Weathergal]

You don't have to preach like that. Did I generalize about all "Americans", local posters included? But one should be color-blinded to not to see that whatever new success Eteri's students have there are massive sour grapes coming from "fans" from unspecified countries. While even a small success of an American like Ting (whom I liked by the way a lot) has major cheers and support. The opposite is also true. Injuries happen. But injuries in Eteri's camp have immediate reaction on her "inhuman practices".

What would the reaction be if Rika nailed 2 3As? Would I or any other known Russian here speculate about how unsafe it is? No way - we would praise and support her effort as landing to 3As in one program would be a big feat, indeed.

There was no big outcry about Nathan Chen's adding one quad after another. Although he is known to be injury-prone. So much was said about "evil Eteri making Pitkeev break his back" while everybody just wishes Krasnozhon to get better. And even if he did break his ankle as he said himself do we expect massive outcry about greedy coaches making a junior jump all this quads?

I would be happy if the same attitude: celebrating success and wishing the best when injured - applied equally to every skater from every country here. It's not the case and don't try to convince me otherwise - too many examples. And they are all concentrated around Eteri and her skaters even not the Russians in general.

Actually there was a huge outcry about Nathan Chen a few years ago after he injured his hip at the Nationals gala and required surgery. There were a lot of posters saying either he, his parents, and/or his coach didn't care about his welfare, that he wouldn't be able to walk in a few years, etc.

About Rika and her 3As, for whatever reason I haven't heard such negative speculation about women getting injured trying 3As, which isn't to say there hasn't been any.

Please understand I'm not disagreeing with you about the sour grapes. I enjoy your posts and really like hearing about Russian skating from someone who lives there. Like you, I also think that when something's associated with Eteri's group, SOME posters do have a bias. She seems to be a lightning rod for criticism, most of it rather unfair.

I'm also cringing already seeing posts that speculate about Trusova not keeping her jumps past puberty, Eteri not having skaters past puberty, etc. Can we just enjoy the moment before we start tearing everything apart?

I think I understand Sasha'sSpins comment about not wanting to be assumed about just because of where you're from - I'm not saying you're doing that. Even though I follow many Russian skaters closely and many are among my favorites, I've often not been comfortable commenting in some of the threads because I felt if I made anything construed as being remotely critical (ex. I really wish Skater A would work on his/her spins - they detract from the rest of their great program) that it would be construed as anti-Russian even though I'm making the same criticism about a different skater on a different thread. I hope that makes sense.

But I don't want to dwell on that here because at least my impression of the purpose of this thread is to celebrate Trusova's accomplishment - and yes, it was quite an accomplishment! I've already watched her performance several times, and I know I'll watch it more. I think it's incredible, and I admire her determination and guts to go for it and challenge not just her competitors but also herself.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, I'm comparing Trusova's quad salchow's rotation speed to Akatieva's triple salchow's rotation speed.

Okay, but it's different elements (one requiring more height and speed of rotation), a regular position vs a Rippon, and I'm guessing different point in their program. It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Shayuki]

Okay, but it's different elements (one requiring more height and speed of rotation), a regular position vs a Rippon, and I'm guessing different point in their program. It's comparing apples to oranges.

Of course, it's not perfect. Apples to Apples would probably favor Akatieva further. I expect Akatieva's 4S to have even faster rotation speed. She looks like she puts zero effort into that. Compare the swing of Trusova's arms to Akatieva's, for example. If I actually compared triple salchows, the difference is enormous. Picking the quad is favorable to Trusova, it's her fastest rotated jump. What do you expect me to do?

 

[russianfan]

I'm intrested what changed between Europeans and Russian Cup final. Since JGP in Brisbane and until Europeans her quad salchow looked not good. She landed it occasionally and
usually underrotated. And then her quads quality dramatically improved. At Russian Cup final she already hadn't any problems with her salchow and was confident enough to add quad toe to the program. Recently at Junior Worlds she landed a number of salchows and toes at practices and in program and almost all of them were good. Seems like she changed something in her technic but I can not find what.

Seems like she's getting more height now. Also it seems like she has zero doubt now, she goes all in with all the power she has :thumbsup:

 

[russianfan]

Please understand I'm not disagreeing with you about the sour grapes. I enjoy your posts and really like hearing about Russian skating from someone who lives there. Like you, I also think that when something's associated with Eteri's group, SOME posters do have a bias. She seems to be a lightning rod for criticism, most of it rather unfair.

I'm also cringing already seeing posts that speculate about Trusova not keeping her jumps past puberty, Eteri not having skaters past puberty, etc. Can we just enjoy the moment before we start tearing everything apart?

I think I understand Sasha'sSpins comment about not wanting to be assumed about just because of where you're from - I'm not saying you're doing that. Even though I follow many Russian skaters closely and many are among my favorites, I've often not been comfortable commenting in some of the threads because I felt if I made anything construed as being remotely critical (ex. I really wish Skater A would work on his/her spins - they detract from the rest of their great program) that it would be construed as anti-Russian even though I'm making the same criticism about a different skater on a different thread. I hope that makes sense.

But I don't want to dwell on that here because at least my impression of the purpose of this thread is to celebrate Trusova's accomplishment - and yes, it was quite an accomplishment! I've already watched her performance several times, and I know I'll watch it more. I think it's incredible, and I admire her determination and guts to go for it and challenge not just her competitors but also herself.

sometimes i think we all just need to chill out a bit, russians included

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Of course, it's not perfect. Apples to Apples would probably favor Akatieva further. I expect Akatieva's 4S to have even faster rotation speed. She looks like she puts zero effort into that. Compare the swing of Trusova's arms to Akatieva's, for example. If I actually compared triple salchows, the difference is enormous. Picking the quad is favorable to Trusova, it's her fastest rotated jump. What do you expect me to do?

If this is making a case for Akatieva doing a 4S by showing a jump that is different in many ways (like, is she going to do her 4S as a Rippon?!), I don't get it. To me the spring on her 3S is insufficient to get close to a quad but who knows - a quad attempt is different than a 3S. But, hey, you do you, boo.

 

[Weathergal]

sometimes i think we all just need to chill out a bit, russians included

:thumbsup:

 

[Shayuki]

If this is making a case for Akatieva doing a 4S by showing a jump that is different in many ways (like, is she going to do her 4S as a Rippon?!), I don't get it. To me the spring on her 3S is insufficient to get close to a quad but who knows - a quad attempt is different than a 3S. But, hey, you do you, boo.

The purpose is to compare the rotation speeds of the two skaters on salchow jumps, that's all. I wanted to do it because the angles happened to be rather similar. I really just gave this video because a super slow mo was requested...

Still, the spring on her 3S is "insufficient"? She's 10 years old and it's the last element of the program. Do you think she's putting everything into it? She's already been training quads for a while and she's one of Eteri's students. If you see it in live speed: here you can't convince me she's actually trying her hardest to get as much lift or rotation speed as possible. Not to mention that already is very good height for a junior's 3S, even if she wasn't 10 years old. Sigh.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The purpose is to compare the rotation speeds of the two skaters on salchow jumps, that's all. I wanted to do it because the angles happened to be rather similar. I really just gave this video because a super slow mo was requested...

Still, the spring on her 3S is "insufficient"? She's 10 years old and it's the last element of the program. Do you think she's putting everything into it? She's already been training quads for a while and she's one of Eteri's students. If you see it in live speed: here you can't convince me she's actually trying her hardest to get as much lift or rotation speed as possible.

She isn't getting as much as possible though. Look at her speed going into the jump - she would get more lift (and a cleaner landing) if she went into that faster. By comparison, Trusova has tons of speed going into her 4S.

I get you were providing a super slow mo; I was just confused why you were comparing two very different jump attempts. They were both salchows though - I'll give you that!