Trusova and Quads

[Sam L]

Isn’t that a Salchow

No that's the 4T, you can clearly see her toe pick going in for the jump. It looks pre rotated but she does it so fast.

 

[starla16]

Exactly. She's in the history books! Shoma's 4F has some pre-rotation on it but according to ISU standards today it is ratifiable, and so - like Trusova - he is also in the history books for being the first to execute the 2nd hardest quad jump ever in his discipline.

looking at Trusova now, I can see she is muscular, her thigh and legs are right in height and muscular, they are not bambi legs. I think she has good chance of landing the quad jumps for more years to come if healthy. Beijing will be lucky for her as she will still be 17-18 and she wont change that much.

 

[Shayuki]

No that's the 4T, you can clearly see her toe pick going in for the jump. It looks pre rotated but she does it so fast.

No pre-rotation past 180 degrees in the slightest(at 30 fps). That's probably the best 4T I've ever seen by far. Of hers, I mean.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No pre-rotation past 180 degrees in the slightest(at 30 fps). That's probably the best 4T I've ever seen by far. Of hers, I mean.

That's hard to tell in a 30fps vid from that far away, but for all intents and purposes it is a great attempt and good on her for pulling that out in a gala.

 

[cell]

Of course. 60 FPS super duper slow-mo by yours truly:

https://streamable.com/wea3g

OK, so she starts the rotation at 0:03, but her blade doesn't leave the ice until 0:06. I counted 3 rotations from 0:06 - 0:10, 0:16, 0:20...and then half a rotation. So what am I missing?

 

[Shayuki]

That's hard to tell in a 30fps vid from that far away, but for all intents and purposes it is a great attempt and good on her for pulling that out in a gala.

1 frame after her pick leaves the ice it's barely rotated and it's so high up that it must have left the ice during the earlier portions of the frame, which means it's very close to the pre-rotation of the last frame her pick's on the ice, which was clearly within 180 degrees. It's not that hard to see in this case, it's pretty apparent which frame it is that her pick last touches the ice. Even the next frame the pick's not rotated a whole lot. It's really a pain to constantly make these videos though to prove people wrong. Please watch them frame by frame.

Generally, she leaves the ice at 180 degrees or ever so slightly before or after 180. She won't just suddenly pre-rotate by a massive amount on a random quad.

OK, so she starts the rotation at 0:03, but her blade doesn't leave the ice until 0:06. I counted 3 rotations from 0:06 - 0:10, 0:16, 0:20...and then half a rotation. So what am I missing?

180 degrees of pre-rotation is allowed and even typical for these jumps. A quad is 3.25 revolutions, not 4.

 

[qwertyskates]

Anything can happen tomorrow, but I am here to celebrate this moment of record breaking, and hope to see even more beautifully crafted, matured programs from Eteri's team.

Their style is very different - it's wow elements + crazy transitions + backloading all built on more difficult, sophisticated vehicles, eg 4 Seasons, Adios Ninos, Chopin, Black Swan/Moonlight. I'm glad they're moving away from the Averbukh style of pantomiming emotions to milk PCS popularized by Yulia and Evgenia and getting closer to Kostner's highly expressive yet abstract performances, to more unique music than typical straightforward war horses like POTO, Turandot, etc. with their familiar cues, though arguably 4 Seasons and Adios are classics. They are still highly demanding and challenging - without choreographic complexity, the skating will look very flat compared to the changing nuances of their music.

So I hope that they will continue to keep it international, sophisticated but not junior, some Stravinsky, Gershwin, or recent rock like Woodkid, closer to the way Lori Nichols choreographs for Kostner.

 

[cheerio2]

Mirai's also the first skater to do an 8-triple program at the Olympics

Wasn't Mao the first?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

You don't have to preach like that. Did I generalize about all "Americans", local posters included? But one should be color-blinded to not to see that whatever new success Eteri's students have there are massive sour grapes coming from "fans" from unspecified countries. While even a small success of an American like Ting (whom I liked by the way a lot) has major cheers and support. The opposite is also true. Injuries happen. But injuries in Eteri's camp have immediate reaction on her "inhuman practices".

What would the reaction be if Rika nailed 2 3As? Would I or any other known Russian here speculate about how unsafe it is? No way - we would praise and support her effort as landing to 3As in one program would be a big feat, indeed.

There was no big outcry about Nathan Chen's adding one quad after another. Although he is known to be injury-prone. So much was said about "evil Eteri making Pitkeev break his back" while everybody just wishes Krasnozhon to get better. And even if he did break his ankle as he said himself do we expect massive outcry about greedy coaches making a junior jump all this quads?

I would be happy if the same attitude: celebrating success and wishing the best when injured - applied equally to every skater from every country here. It's not the case and don't try to convince me otherwise - too many examples. And they are all concentrated around Eteri and her skaters even not the Russians in general.

You DID generalize when you suggested in your previous post that if the skater were an American there wouldn't be such a to do about the quads, as if to say we wouldn't care about possible injuries, etc.

"Suddenly so many people are worried about "kids bodies". I wonder what they would write if an American girl would jump 2 quads."

YOU'RE the one that brought up this hypothetical 'American' not I. You didn't say 'what if a Canadian', or what if a French woman'. No. You said 'an American'. Your prejudice against us is more than obvious.

And apparently, you haven't cared to notice that quite a few Americans here in this thread - myself included - have been nothing but celebratory about Trusova's achievements! But no, you choose to ignore those of us that are happy for her and instead zero in on the few wet blankets.

As for Nathan, he suffered an injury and had to have surgery after attempting a quad in an EXHIBITION so it would be natural for any reasonable person to be concerned with all of the quads he is attempting in his programs! You suggest there hasn't been 'an outcry' but I've seen plenty of posts over the past few years voicing their concerns for him!

 

[yume]

3A is useful if you can skate the rest on the very high level, which is not the case here. How much has she got with clean 3A, 137 points? That's still low for today's standards, where you have to score 145+ to have chances for podium. That's just a simple fact and not like i'm trying to bash someone.

How can you score 145+ when judges give you 64 PCS and low GOEs? I wonder why when someone scores low people think immediately that it is because he/she was technically bad.

 

[charlotte14]

Wasn't Mao the first?

Mao did but got like 5 UR calls. Mirai should have got 2-3 UR calls but anyway....

 

[ancientpeas]

There was no big outcry about Nathan Chen's adding one quad after another. Although he is known to be injury-prone. So much was said about "evil Eteri making Pitkeev break his back" while everybody just wishes Krasnozhon to get better. And even if he did break his ankle as he said himself do we expect massive outcry about greedy coaches making a junior jump all this quads?

.

Actually I can attest (because I read a lot of posts) that there is a lot of concern about Nathan and the fragility of his body and the damage done to him by all the jumping. I think the volume is louder about the young women because a lot more people follow ladies skating than men's with lots of intensity and also it is human nature to be more protective of a tiny 13 year old than Nathan who looks like an adult male now. I think the reason it seems like there is a lot of chatter about Eteri's students is because of how many young phenoms she has. Are some people anti-Russian? Yes, probably. Just as some people are anti-American, anti-Canadian, anti-Japanese. But I think the overwhelming majority just want these young people to stay healthy and have long careers and a healthy life when they are over 40.

I know when I see a young skater (or any skater) regardless of nationality get injured all I wish is for a speedy recovery for them. I assume that the overwhelming majority of people feel the same. I think people who feel otherwise should probably step back and evaluate their point of view.

 

[chuckm]

Americans do worry about what happens to girls (and ladies) because we have seen such injuries among our own skaters.

Tara Lipinski retired immediately after her OGM because repetitive practice of her 3lo+3lo over the last two years of her competitive seasons caused a painful hip injury. She joined Stars on Ice and within a year had to have surgery on her hip.

Michelle Kwan had the exact same injury in the year leading up to the 2006 Olympics and though she tried to grin and bear the pain, she finally had to withdraw after the opening ceremonies. She had been competing as a senior from the age of 13 until 26, 13 years in all. Once she won her first World Championship in 1996, she competed not only in the GP and Worlds, but in every made-for-TV and international competition of note. She did this every year from 1996 through 2001, but after 2002 Worlds, she noted that all that skating was taking a toll on her body. After that, she did just one GP, Skate America, per year, and usually just one made-for-TV event, then Worlds. By 2005, she had stopped doing the 3 loop and layback spins. She withdrew from Skate America 2005 and US Nationals because of injury but requested a bye to the Olympics, which was granted. Ultimately, she had to withdraw, and shortly afterward had surgery on her hip.

Other skaters who have had this same injury include Naomi Nari Nam and most recently, Alissa Czisny. Alissa claimed she didn't have pain from the injury, but she just couldn't complete jumps. When she was diagnosed, she had the surgery and tried to return from surgery and compete once again. But at a preseason competition, she fell on a jump and was unable to get up. Her hip had failed her once again and she had to have another surgery. She now does exhibition skating only, with no jumps.

And then there are skaters from other countries who have had other injuries for other reasons. Satoko Miyahara had a broken hip which apparently was caused because she had osteopenia, a weakening of the bones caused by poor nutrition. Normally conditions like osteopenia are found in the elderly and sometimes in dancers, who tend to starve themselves to stay superthin. But it is also a danger for very young skaters whose coaches keep them on strict diets to stave off puberty. They may stay thin and be able to jump longer, but they may also be more susceptible to breaks in hips or limbs when they fall, and skaters will fall in practice, no matter how good they are.

 

[charlotte14]

Americans do worry about what happens to girls (and ladies) because we have seen such injuries among our own skaters.

Tara Lipinski retired immediately after her OGM because repetitive practice of her 3lo+3lo over the last two years of her competitive seasons caused a painful hip injury. She joined Stars on Ice and within a year had to have surgery on her hip.

Michelle Kwan had the exact same injury in the year leading up to the 2006 Olympics and though she tried to grin and bear the pain, she finally had to withdraw after the opening ceremonies. She had been competing as a senior from the age of 13 until 26, 13 years in all. Once she won her first World Championship in 1996, she competed not only in the GP and Worlds, but in every made-for-TV and international competition of note. She did this every year from 1996 through 2001, but after 2002 Worlds, she noted that all that skating was taking a toll on her body. After that, she did just one GP, Skate America, per year, and usually just one made-for-TV event, then Worlds. By 2005, she had stopped doing the 3 loop and layback spins. She withdrew from Skate America 2005 and US Nationals because of injury but requested a bye to the Olympics, which was granted. Ultimately, she had to withdraw, and shortly afterward had surgery on her hip.

Other skaters who have had this same injury include Naomi Nari Nam and most recently, Alissa Czisny. Alissa claimed she didn't have pain from the injury, but she just couldn't complete jumps. When she was diagnosed, she had the surgery and tried to return from surgery and compete once again. But at a preseason competition, she fell on a jump and was unable to get up. Her hip had failed her once again and she had to have another surgery. She now does exhibition skating only, with no jumps.

And then there are skaters from other countries who have had other injuries for other reasons. Satoko Miyahara had a broken hip which apparently was caused because she had leukopenia, a weakening of the bones caused by poor nutrition. Normally conditions like leukopenia are found in the elderly and sometimes in dancers, who tend to starve themselves to stay superthin. But it is also a danger for very young skaters whose coaches keep them on strict diets to stave off puberty. They may stay thin and be able to jump longer, but they may also be more susceptible to breaks in hips or limbs when they fall, and skaters will fall in practice, no matter how good they are.

But to be honest, all elite sports aren’t healthy for your body in the long run. The big question is, do the skaters want to medal or not? Who are more willing to sacrifice and suffer to get the results they want? A cake every day or a medal to remember for the rest of your life? I’d choose a cake every day and that’s why I am no elite athlete.

 

[VenusHalley]

looking at Trusova now, I can see she is muscular, her thigh and legs are right in height and muscular, they are not bambi legs. I think she has good chance of landing the quad jumps for more years to come if healthy. Beijing will be lucky for her as she will still be 17-18 and she wont change that much.

So hopefully there will be no protein shakes BS and she can hold on to her quads while adding artistry and working on other skills. She is too young to know where she is going, but she done so well yesterday.

 

[John King]

Next program is going to be 'Hair' or the Tangled Soundtrack. :gclap:

Or, a song by Crystal Gayle! http://oi67.tinypic.com/15rbgud.jpg

 

[cheerio2]

Mao did but got like 5 UR calls. Mirai should have got 2-3 UR calls but anyway....

I thought those UR calls were ridiculous, so I'm just going with it that Mao was the first to skate an 8 triple program

 

[MIM]

Watching Trusova skate, it was simply jaw dropping. She literally maximized the standard for ladies’ figure skating competition. Not just landing two clean different t quads, the rest of jumps were in the second half. her lutz was out of the level 4 step sequence! And the base values of her triple combinations can’t be any higher ; 3lz3l, 3f1l3s, 3f3t. Yes, she can improve her interpretation, spins, skating skills, but they are developed far more than the ones of any 13year old elite skaters. Her athletic talent is beyond this world. I get the concerns for the little girl's health. There have been many attempts among the girls, but she is the only successful one. At this point, I have to admit that Trusova is truly special and maybe she has a very special body to do what she is doing now. How she keeps them as growing is another topic. But nobody has done what she is capable of however small and slender and young she is now. I celebrate her achievement and talent!

It is time for her choreographer and coach to step up! Trusova is a genius skater. But her current program is not genius. Give her a masterpiece she deserves skating to. She can handle anything!!!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

How can you score 145+ when judges give you 64 PCS and low GOEs? I wonder why when someone scores low people think immediately that it is because he/she was technically bad.

Lower PCS can be very often connected with bad technicality, just not the one which is about required elements... or with not showing your technicality enough because of emphasis on another things.

 

[russianfan]

It is time for her choreographer and coach to step up! Trusova is a genius skater. But her current program is not genius. Give her a masterpiece she deserves skating to. She can handle anything!!!

Well with the current layout her FS is not very suitable and it is true, but this is because her program initially wasn't designed for two quads. Initially it was just for one quad, and as you can see here it matches music pretty nice, there are enough accents and she performs quite well(i would say even amazing considering her age and level of the difficulty of the program). They've changed layout only for previous and this competition, so of course it's nowhere near "genius"

How can you score 145+ when judges give you 64 PCS and low GOEs? I wonder why when someone scores low people think immediately that it is because he/she was technically bad.

Well, i don't want to be offtopic here so this is my last post on that: i can't say that Mirai's low PCS are undeserved, since she's not that good as a performer, and her jumps aren't that impressive either(also no difficult transitions, entries, etc). Compared to the current field it's pretty justified marks i would say.