Boyang Jin to Train under Brian Orser

[Haleth]

What happened was no reaction from Hanyu when the news was broken to him. Brian is a coach, he's older, he came with a visit- all the reasons to be polite to someone you respect and who is a guest of yours in your house. Brian needs to realize that reaction will come later on. The conversation is not finalized.
Yeah I'm happy for Boyang to land a great coach. I'm not happy the way Brian handled things.
And I am free to express this without pointing out who needs a coach and who does not as other posters here do.

Except again we have so very little of this encounter to go on. Silence can mean so many things and yet people assume it must mean whatever they project onto it, without solid evidence to support them. Perhaps we should respect and trust the people involved (the actual experts) more and not rush in to judge when we have so little of the context. Were you there to see and listen to exactly how the visit went, how things were said exactly, to watch the facial expressions? No? Then you are making extreme assumptions based on little evidence and actually not knowing the people involved. No, watching them from a distance and reading press and interviews is not the same as actually knowing their full complex selves. I think it's far better for fans to wait and see how things progress this season, to see what is said in more interviews, before rushing in to judge a situation about which outsiders know so little.

Brian himself has explicitly said his main priority will be Yuzu, Evgenia, and Boyang. He was able to handle Yuzu and Javi and knows himself well enough what can be done after navigating the difficult Oly season bumps to believe he can add another skater from a different discipline to the mix successfully. Were you there in Toronto for that challenging process? Did you participate in the logistics and practices? Brian is open about his priorities to people, just as he let everyone know that he was expecting to take in 1-2 new skaters. Note that is the skaters he and his team feel are a good fit for everyone at TCC based on complex circumstances. Fan opinion should hold no weight in this process.

Don't forget this is the man who guided Yuzu to two Oly gold medals, the second one won despite a very difficult injury. He cares deeply about his skaters, yet he is running a coaching business and has to face reality: he had 1-2 potential retirements or semi-retirements ahead of him. Note that in post-Oly interviews he did not know Yuzu or Javi's plans. It was clear pretty quickly Javi was going to scale back or retire. We still don't know what competitions Yuzuru wants to do. So why is taking on Boyang a bad move under these circumstances? He and Yuzu get along well. Would you think things would be better with Shoma or Nathan (if they were even interested, which I doubt)? Having your major rival on your own team would be far harder than a rival from another team.

Jason was the unexpected third acceptance and Brian was up front to Jason about that situation too. Brian is not being secretive or dishonest and that openness is being offered to the skaters concerned here.

In the end I think it is best to remember who the experts in coaching and skating are, that we as fans really know little of the people and situations except what is told to us. Rather than overreacting to a situation we know little about, let's respect the very successful people involved enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. Wait for more evidence before making judgments. So sayeth this Yuzuru fan.

Everyone will have to communicate for sure. But that means that if Yuzuru has problems he needs to tell Brian so. Silence will help no one, if he does intact have any minor or major concerns.

 

[Mrs. P]

Hey all, I started a new thread on this topic of coach workload/approach here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...eam-approaches-workload&p=2107504#post2107504

 

[icybear]

Jeez need people be so over sensitive and petty and make a huge fuss over something so trivial. Should Orser have asked for Junhwan permission or Nam permission or contacted little Stephen to get his parents permission?

 

[alexaa]

He and Yuzu get along well. Would you think things would be better with Shoma or Nathan (if they were even interested, which I doubt)? Having your major rival on your own team would be far harder than a rival from another team.

Why Shoma and Nathan here who have nothing to do with Orser or this thread? And, do Shoma and Nathan don't get along with Yuzuru or even Boyang?

Can we not get these two involved in this thread?

 

[Marin]

I’m not sure if here is the right place to ask, but is Brian not the main coach for Junhwan? I don’t see him being mentioned much in discussions about Jason and Boyang.

I’m sorry if this is derailing the thread.

_________

ETA: I agree with taking this article with a pile of salt. I also think that Brian is wise enough to try his best not to stir up any problems from the coaching arrangements ans I do think that at this point in life/career Yuzu is wise enough to effectively voice his concern if there is any.

Not mentioning Cha and Liza T seemed more questionable to me than all this noise about Hanyu's reaction. I find it very odd that Phil named Stephen and somehow managed to forget Liza and Jun. Remembering TSL tweet saying "not all current skaters will remain in CC" and earlier rumors about Liza leaving CC matches. This is way more interesting to me than all this useless speculation how Brian should have approached skater whom he knows for 7 years. BO sure knows him better than us and I'd not trust Phil wording either. If Brian went to Yuzu's place it means they had long talk, maybe about his future , plans and goals and because of his high privacy Brian could only share this part .As I said Liza and Jun absence is more odd to me in this text.

 

[Yoa]

It's Hersh's article...


After Olympics Yuzuru told Brian to give him some time. I am sure they actually met to discuss Yuzuru's plans and future. I assume that Brian told him about Evgenia then too. They probably had a long talk about it. Brian didn't told him about it in his office. And we don't know really how exactly he told him about Boyang. Yes. He didn't ask for permission but maybe he asked if Yuzuru is okay with that. Or maybe to tell him if he has something against it. That's also "not really asking for permission". And it's Yuzuru. He would probably said yes even if he had something against it.

And important thing is that TCC has other rink so Boyang and Yuzuru will probably have different schedules.

 

[Haleth]

Afternoon tea at the cricket club

BO: Soo everyone.. I have decided to take on Nathen Chen at the cricket club, just want to let you know as a courtesy.
Everyone <Stunned blank face. Smiles politely. Not saying anything. Sips tea. Feeding Pooh sandwiches. Hugs a puppy. >

Phil calls BO: So how did it go?
BO: Everyone had no reaction. I think it went really well. We are going to have a spectacular happy training environment. Lots of little Javi in waiting.

This is a poor attempt at satire because it is so extremely unlikely. It does not support your case well because there is almost no possibility anything like it would ever happen.

1) There is almost no chance Nathan would ever want to leave Raf, barring something catastrophic/fatal happening to Raf (I wish him well!) as Nathan has very clearly said. Raf is the one for him.

2) There is almost no chance Brian would say "heyyyy I want to take in a skater who is going to force me and Tracy to Skype-coach them for much of the time because they want to go to a certain school. I am sure SS etc. are easy to convey via Skype and e-mail!" This is contrary to his views as a coach. This is contrary to Tracy's views as a coach.

3) Brian told people involved up front and early in the process that someone new was coming, not waiting until the serious training season was starting at TCC for those concerned. He did so one on one (or at most maybe with the skater and close family/friend present), and in one case even travelled to someone's home to personally deliver the news. This is the complete opposite of your scenario, which involves telling everyone at once at TCC publicly, which means during the height of serious training in the summer, when it would seriously inconvenience everyone who wanted to change because of the news.

 

[Danny T]

Is the point of contention the difference between Fernandez's and Hanyu's treatment?

Now, whether there is a difference in this situation, frankly we don't know. The reference to Fernandez is not in Orser's quote, but conveniently narrated by Hersh. In case people didn't remember, in this article about raising minimum age for seniors, Hersh 'narrated' that Orser agreed to raising minimum age, while the only quotes from Orser are about Trusova's chance of keeping quads and Gogolev's coaching condition (which, incidentally, is placed after a complaint about injuries from another person). Funnily enough, in the Russian interview about Medvedeva released a few weeks later, Orser had to explicitly say he does not support raising minimum age for senior. :sarcasm:

Do I find the phrasing "no reaction" weird? Sure, sounds a bit off. But personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Orser kept things purposefully vague about Yuzu to Hersh - if somebody tried to miscontrue what I said like above, I would be royally pissed. Alas, it's not like there are many other outlets that publish FS news so Hersh it is, I suppose. :confused2:

 

[Yoa]

2) There is almost no chance Brian would say "heyyyy I want to take in a skater who is going to force me and Tracy to Skype-coach them for much of the time because they want to go to a certain school. I am sure SS etc. are easy to convey via Skype and e-mail!" This is contrary to his views as a coach. This is contrary to Tracy's views as a coach.

It's exactly how Yuzuru was coached before 2016-2017 season Not all the time but Brian communicated with Yuzuru via e-mails when he was in Japan... And Yuzuru was there a lot of time.

 

[Marin]

It's exactly how Yuzuru was coached before 2016-2017 season Not all the time but Brian communicated with Yuzuru via e-mails when he was in Japan... And Yuzuru was there a lot of time.

Before 15/16 season, in 15/16 he already stayed most of the time in Toronto.

 

[Haleth]

Why Shoma and Nathan here who have nothing to do with Orser or this thread? And, do Shoma and Nathan don't get along with Yuzuru or even Boyang?

I was talking about (very) theoretical alternative rinkmates here, in this case two men who are very clear rivals to Yuzuru, like Boyang is. Shoma and Yuzuru clearly get along in their senpai-kouhai relationship, but they are also rivals on the same team, Team Japan. That would add another layer of competitiveness that would make it even more difficult than having a serious rival from another country (Javi in the past, Boyang in the future) around you on a very frequent basis during the training and competition seasons. This is true however Yuzuru and Shoma personally feel about each other as people.

Nathan and Yuzuru are respectful and civil rivals but don't seem to have the great personal warmth that Javi, Shoma, and Boyang share with Yuzuru. And that's 100% ok! No one person can or should be as close and friendly with every person. This says nothing bad about Nathan or Yuzuru; it's human nature. The main thing is that there is civility in their interactions. Nevertheless, one of the main reasons Javi and Yuzu were able to train together successfully for years is that core of warmth they have for each other. It helped them even get through the tension of the Oly season. Nathan and Yuzuru do not have that core and would likely not fare nearly as well. Again, that is not condemning either person.

So, of the three most serious rivals to Yuzuru that are going to be competing against him next season, Boyang is the best option as a rinkmate. because they seem to get along well and are not on the same national team.

 

[alexaa]

I was talking about (very) theoretical alternative rinkmates here, in this case two men who are very clear rivals to Yuzuru, like Boyang is. Shoma and Yuzuru clearly get along in their senpai-kouhai relationship, but they are also rivals on the same team, Team Japan. That would add another layer of competitiveness that would make it even more difficult than having a serious rival from another country (Javi in the past, Boyang in the future) around you on a very frequent basis during the training and competition seasons. This is true however Yuzuru and Shoma personally feel about each other as people.

Nathan and Yuzuru are respectful and civil rivals but don't seem to have the great personal warmth that Javi, Shoma, and Boyang share with Yuzuru. And that's 100% ok! No one person can or should be as close and friendly with every person. This says nothing bad about Nathan or Yuzuru; it's human nature. The main thing is that there is civility in their interactions. Nevertheless, one of the main reasons Javi and Yuzu were able to train together successfully for years is that core of warmth they have for each other. It helped them even get through the tension of the Oly season. Nathan and Yuzuru do not have that core and would likely not fare nearly as well. Again, that is not condemning either person.

So, of the three most serious rivals to Yuzuru that are going to be competing against him next season, Boyang is the best option as a rinkmate. because they seem to get along well and are not on the same national team.

It is only assumptions from fans who is going to getting along with whom.

I really don't think some posts are complaining about who Orser is going to bringing in, it is the "perceived" inconsistency of asking Javier's and Yuzuru's opinions which some fans are probably not that happy about, and your argument about Nathan and Shoma doesn't help this sentiment. Furthermore, I don't think it is fair for Shoma and Nathan to be discussed about not being a better rinkmate when 1) you don't really know them well enough, 2) There is even not any intention they are joining TCC. That is the intension of my previous post.

I don't think a coach needs permission from his current students. It would be nice and considerate if he really does. In the meantime, I think it is quite understandable that some fans might be little bit too sensitive with Orser's action in this article, Orser is a bit inconsistent in that regard even though he has his reasons to do whatever he has been doing.

 

[DaNiCG]

Im so tired of people babysitting Yuzuru, he knows whats better for him, we cant judge people for what its written in an article, we all know they change the answers a little bit, but more important, he is an adult man, if he would have had an objection he would have raised his voice, he is not naive, he is not this innocent little bean people want to make him as, he is smart, too smart, if he didnt fell confortable, he would have leave long time ago.
If Brian didnt make a fuss about it its because he knew there wasnt anything to worry about, he knew Yuzuru wouldnt have a problem, we are talking about people who are with him more time than us, who have a closed relationship with him instead of just what we see on camera.
Not mentioning that Brian is always vague when talking about the skaters's behaviors inside TCC, and how is their relationship. They were chatting when Brian comment it, Im pretty sure not having a reaction was the reaction

A more cold way of thinking? why would Brian risk losing Yuzuru? that doesnt make any sense
so, lets let them be, and just trust everything would turn out for good.
He is not training Javi full time anymore, and Gogolev primary coach is Lee now, so, he have time for both Yuzuru and Boyang, and Jason, and Evgenia

Cant wait to see Boyang's improvement


woo the babysit part sounds...harsh, I always found people (can I call them Hanyu fans?) saying how Yuzuru is this fragile boy who needs protection, how Brian is the bad one for neglecting been all time for him, the way I see it, is that Yuzu is mature enough to make his own mind, he is mature enough to be his own boss, if he had a way of thinking he is going for it and to change it you need a good argument, Brian is like an adviser, he helps him achieve, but Yuzuru kind of do most of the work?? I dont know how to explain, but if you are talking just for concern, then ok, that part was for those people


anyway, Boyang with artistry closed to Javier's?? sign me up for that! if everything goes as planned, he would very well take gold at 2022

 

[Tavi...]

Jason actually asked Tracy Wilson to be his coach after he spent time in TCC and she was thrilled with him. Jason did not choose Brian first.
As per Yuzuru- let him decide that by himself with none of us all involved in this issue.

Did you get that info from an article? If so could you post the link? Thanks!

 

[noskates]

Quote Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
Jason actually asked Tracy Wilson to be his coach after he spent time in TCC and she was thrilled with him. Jason did not choose Brian first.
As per Yuzuru- let him decide that by himself with none of us all involved in this issue.

Unless you have a direct quote from Jason or Tracy that this happened it makes absolutely no sense. Why would Jason trade Kori for Tracy? He needs help with his jumps and he isn't going to get that from an ex-ice dancer. Love Tracy but I can't see that this took place.

 

[yyyskate]

Afternoon tea at the cricket club

BO: Soo everyone.. I have decided to take on Nathen Chen at the cricket club, just want to let you know as a courtesy.
Everyone <Stunned blank face. Smiles politely. Not saying anything. Sips tea. Feeding Pooh sandwiches. Hugs a puppy. >

Phil calls BO: So how did it go?
BO: Everyone had no reaction. I think it went really well. We are going to have a spectacular happy training environment. Lots of little Javi in waiting.

@OS, witty as ever:luv17:, the subtle shades on Brian including the Nathan Chen mentioning here.:agree:
But I like Team Brian's figure skating's coach methodology tho.
Happy for Boyang that he snatched the spot early enough.

PS: @OS it is Nathaaaaaaaan (quoting screaming Nathan fan girls) not Nathen though A kind reminder (second time) to you

 

[narcissa]

Um, this is Hersh who clearly wrote that Brian said Yuzu was going to continue to 2022, which he didn't even say.

The conversation could have easily gone like this:

Phil: Did you have to ask Hanyu for permission to take on Boyang?
Brian: I didn't ask permission, plus I know he says yes to everything. (And yes, Brian has said this about Yuzuru in the past.) I just threw the idea of Boyang possibly training here out there and looked for a reaction. Usually Yuzu's reactions are more indicative of his true feelings than his words. But I didn't get any negative reaction, so if there were any I'm sure I'd have noticed it by now.

 

[DaNiCG]

cant believe that a Boyang thread became a Yuzuru thread

 

[KiraraChin]

I for one think that Boyang's presence will be great for Yuzuru, and Yuzuru is probably quite excited about it (and no, I'm not shipping).

Yuzuru has spoken in the past how the presence of 'friendly rivalry' is a great incentive for him. How he looks at the likes of Nathan and feel grateful, because they make him feel pumped up and motivated to win. We all know he literally said to Javi 'I can't do it without you' at the Olympics - which I think it's partly because he will miss javi the person, but also partly because he will miss Javi the rival.

So, there's no need to think Boyang's presence will be bad for Yuzuru or vice-versa. Yes, having a rival at the same rink might be a problem if badly managed by the coach (hello, Eteri), but Brian is experienced enough with these things to not let a toxic environment develop.

 

[fierysky]

Did you get that info from an article? If so could you post the link? Thanks!

Quote Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
Jason actually asked Tracy Wilson to be his coach after he spent time in TCC and she was thrilled with him. Jason did not choose Brian first.
As per Yuzuru- let him decide that by himself with none of us all involved in this issue.

Unless you have a direct quote from Jason or Tracy that this happened it makes absolutely no sense. Why would Jason trade Kori for Tracy? He needs help with his jumps and he isn't going to get that from an ex-ice dancer. Love Tracy but I can't see that this took place.

I'm a bit curious about this too because in https://www.ifsmagazine.com/jason-brown-heads-north/, it says Brown was the one who contacted Orser shortly after 2018 U.S. nationals asking about the possibility of training with him. It sounded like Orser was not completely onboard, but Tracy really pushed for it and managed to convince Orser. Maybe that's what it is?

He is not training Javi full time anymore, and Gogolev primary coach is Lee now, so, he have time for both Yuzuru and Boyang, and Jason, and Evgenia

Stephen has always had Orser as the primary coach and Lee as the secondary coach. I don't see that changing especially since Orser seems really invested in Stephen and it's his junior debut year.

I personally would not look into that sentence too deeply, I think only his high profile students are listed since those are the ones most people care about the most, and there's no need to drag in anyone else. I mean can you imagine if he went and listed everyone??? "Orser will be the primary coach of Hanyu, Jin, Medvedeva, Cha, Tursynbayev, Nishiyama, Daleman, Gogolev, Orzel (??).....blah blah blah". Too long!