2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Giltedge]

[replying to NoviceFanI love facts... but those things you are citing are NOT facts - they are opinion. Maybe valid and well-founded opinion (according to you and some), but they are not facts but opinion. Unless we have some objective measure of what is great, good, maybe some, little - and compare them objectively against your assertions, then they are just opinion.]


Well, I mean having the second highest loop and flip, the third lowest PR for lutz, flip and loop and a massive delay in rotation should qualify as a good jumper right? Barring the URs of course. Let's just say 2016-18 Masha was a great jumper, she's still great, but oh URs...

Well, those things sound pretty facty to me. Can we say fact-based opinion? Opinion-laced fact?
Another example (of many among this melee). Someone here said a few pages ago (i.e. a day or so ago) to the effect If Shabotova improves her little jumps and sluggish speed, she could be quite good. That's funny, I thought, I thought I thought differently. So I went back and looked at as many vids as I could find from this season. There are lots. What I saw there is what I remembered. Fast rotation. High jumps. Quick speed. No numbers, no measurements (although there are the tools). But still, those qualities are there in plain sight. Facts need not necessarily be quantifiable or measurable. There are heuristic facts, not just empirical ones. We might debate the finer points but terms like little jumps in the face of big jumps, and so on... cannot be reduced to "not-fact" and therefore "all-opinion" Facts are open to argument, open to opinion... If it were that easy, there'd be no need for lawcourts.

 

[Seruleane]

TAT compares Evgenia's victory at Russian Cup to Zagitova's at Olympics.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

 

[NoviceFan]

Well, those things sound pretty facty to me. Can we say fact-based opinion? Opinion-laced fact?
Another example (of many among this melee). Someone here said a few pages ago (i.e. a day or so ago) to the effect If Shabotova improves her little jumps and sluggish speed, she could be quite good. That's funny, I thought, I thought I thought differently. So I went back and looked at as many vids as I could find from this season. There are lots. What I saw there is what I remembered. Fast rotation. High jumps. Quick speed. No numbers, no measurements (although there are the tools). But still, those qualities are there in plain sight. Facts need not necessarily be quantifiable or measurable. There are heuristic facts, not just empirical ones. We might debate the finer points but terms like little jumps in the face of big jumps, and so on... cannot be reduced to "not-fact" and therefore "all-opinion" Facts are open to argument, open to opinion... If it were that easy, there'd be no need for lawcourts.

I agree, they could be "well-founded opinions."

Also agree that certain facts are not subject to objective measurement. I would say Alena K. has great artistry on the ice. Most people would say that's factually true - though there is no objective measure of that. To be clear, I am not disputing that, when landed, Masha may have superior jumps to the rest of the Russian ladies (can we also add Polina?). Jumps are measurable - but we can agree that everyone can form a well-founded opinion about the quality of a jump, and they often align with some objective measure.

 

[Sugar Coated]

I have to wonder if Rusfed was watching practices and seeing something we weren't privy to? Like maybe Liza was not able to consistently hit her 3A and Zhenya looked better in practice? I hate to think that this was just about politicking but I wouldn't be surprised. I feel bad for both Liza and Zhenya in a way. Liza because she earned the chance to compete and had the bad luck of getting sick at the most inopportune time. And I feel for Zhenya because this is going to bring extra negative press and increased pressure on her performance at Worlds.

 

[plushyfan]

TAT compares Evgenia's victory at Russian Cup to Zagitova's at Olympics.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

oh, no

 

[skylark]

Reading the last 10 pages of this thread begets a feeling of irony.

For years, I've been reading in the US Ladies' threads that US fed should emulate RusFed, and make the top women compete against each other again after Nationals, to see who's really the best or who can do it (again!) under pressure. Not just to rely on Nationals results and the recent Body of Work.

Now, here, the majority of posters are outraged that Liza's excellent Body of Work from the 2018 GP season should ... no, must .... weigh more than a small Final Cup of Russia. And much bemoaning of how (choose your negative adjective) RusFed is.

It's a good example of how people will find rationalizations to justify whatever their opinion is. Maybe we need to all accept a fact: figure skating scoring and placement are always in part subjective, whether one is a judge or a fan.

 

[Leonardo]

Just realized Liza is off the team and Evgenia is chosen instead. It is a really bad decision because I don't really see Evgenia as a better skater than Liza at this moment, not jumps, not spins, not ss, not even performance, interpretation or transition. I would actually be happen to see Evgenia going if her problem is just jumps. Now if even she does not fall, her other marks should not score high and certainly not much GOE on her jumps.

lol

 

[skylark]

TAT compares Evgenia's victory at Russian Cup to Zagitova's at Olympics.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

Your statement isn't quite correct, according to the translation of the article that I read.

Tarasova said that the situation after Cup of Russia is very difficult and is reminiscent of what happened at the Olympics. That sport is not always fair, and that "stronger is the one who is stronger at the moment."

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

I'm including the link so that people won't think I'm just making this up. But it's the same link as shown above.

 

[hippomoomin]

I noticed the reaction of TAT when Evgenia finished her LP; seriously, I would only think someone would be that happy when Evgenia won a world title at least, while I didn't feel her free skate was a victory at all.

TAT compares Evgenia's victory at Russian Cup to Zagitova's at Olympics.

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c28...evoi-na-kubke-rossii-5c7604638964fb00b3c746cb

 

[anonymoose_au]

I think only Russians can say that. For a foreigner to say such words and in such a tone is unethical. Imagine if I said something like "The Australian Figure Skating Fed is the WORST". I'm sure you would not like to hear that. Please respect other people's feelings. Thanks.

To be honest, if the Australian Figure Skating Fed did something as unbelievablely unfair as what the Russian one did to Liza you can insult them all you want and I'll be right there thumbs-uping your opinion.

 

[rlopen]

Yikes. Well, for having the bulk of figure skating talent, you would think their 3 top representatives would have done better than 5th, 8th and 19th at the most recent Worlds.

Of course, Japan won silver and bronze. And if you add up total placements, even the US (6th, 10th, 12th) and Canada (1st, 7th, 25th) were better overall. Obviously the biggest talent pool is in Russia and the biggest potential for them lies in the next quad, but so far they haven't been as dominant as people expected them to be.

The point of a World Championships is to showcase the best in the World. Every Russian at Nationals could fare better than other countries' skaters, but those countries shouldn't get boxed out simply because they don't come from the country that is historically and currently immensely invested in figure skating, by comparison.

That’s because those were not really their top 3 representatives that year. Maybe they could expand the spots of bigger nations but keep 1 spot for smaller nations that aren’t as good? Clearly this would never happen but in tennis the best in the world go...regardless of nation. They use a ranking system. I don’t get why ISU can’t just use a ranking system or seasons best list to determine it and maybe if Russians have 10 and Japanese have 10 and there are 2 skaters from different small countries being shut out they can just reduced the Japanese and Russian number down to 9 each. Sadly IOC would never let them.

 

[eaglehelang]

That’s because those were not really their top 3 representatives that year. Maybe they could expand the spots of bigger nations but keep 1 spot for smaller nations that aren’t as good? Clearly this would never happen but in tennis the best in the world go...regardless of nation. They use a ranking system. I don’t get why ISU can’t just use a ranking system or seasons best list to determine it and maybe if Russians have 10 and Japanese have 10 and there are 2 skaters from different small countries being shut out they can just reduced the Japanese and Russian number down to 9 each. Sadly IOC would never let them.

I know you mean WC but Tennis at Olympics has quota(as do every Olympic sport), 4 per NOC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics
Thing is for figure skating, WC is qualifying event for Olympics, like gymnastics. If too many from major countries go for WC, how would they fill the quota slots for Olympics?

It is not like racket sports where tennis compete all year round and the top ranking (until 4th athlete per country) goes to Olympics.

Skating can have its own Grand Slam, rather the GP events are supposed to be that. Badminton also have such tournaments where the best of the best compete at the year end for prize money. But for WC, they follow Olympics quota to streamline everything.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Top Seven Senior Girls ("Elder Age") in Championships of Moscow 2019 (24 entrants).


Following Elements on Wednesday, the top echelon of senior girls are even more closely bunched. Sofya Akatieva has moved up to 4th, bumping Darya and Anastasiia down one notch, and Maia and Sofya S have swapped places in 2/3.


Combined scores SP and Elements...

1 Kamila Valieva 2006 1 1 127.98 Team Tutberidze
2 Sofya Samodelkina 2007 3 2 125.38 CSKA Davydov
3 Maia Khromykh 2006 2 3 125.34 Team Tutberidze
4 Sofya Akatieva 2007 6 4 124.27 Team Tutberidze
5 Darya Usachёva 2006 4 5 123.85 Team Tutberidze
6 Anastasiia Shabotova 2006 5 6 121.55 Snowleopards Panova
7 Sofya Muravieva 2006 7 7 116.84 CSKA Davydov



Starting time - see above

Thank you so much. Do you have a results/protocols page for this event?

 

[malya]

//this is what is actually going down in russia now

(adequate) fans are still a bit shocked how many people called the selection fair and about a sports principle when it is clear everybody involved knows what is going on. Many of these many people are somehow also the same speaking trying to invent a narrative on Alina Zagitova and her accidental OGM. A few are a bit disappointed Mr Orser said the same thing about the selection because there was mainly the belief he did not know what he singned up for. Now he is also a part of the "figure skating Elite" in russia.

It also turned out that nobody actually still cares about some payments of training abroad. It's obvious RusFed and everybody will not miss any money and if it wasn't paid for this training it surely wouldn't be used for something more worthwhile. And a few million rubles? There are way way bigger things going on with massive PR.

There was also an Interview with isu vice president Lakernik

https://m.sport-express.ru/figure-s...sostava-na-chm-po-figurnomu-kataniyu-1517384/

He was asked about discontent with the fans by the delay of the decision: The federation does what they can. Any faster was apparently impossible?

Not surprisingly he was also asked about how long people with 'injury' can still be replaced. Let's get these ratings not only by the 'Zagitova vs Medvedeva - deserved OGM? Or the skater that was born at the right time but will be forgotten?' narrative but maybe we could generate hype by implying an injury again. Maybe Alina who is struggling with growth can be replaced by the deserving Tuktik?

This year they even showed the trainings and preparation of our favourite narrative Medvedeva VS Zagitova live on ChannelOne. Yes more hype wonderful. It's discussed that it makes money if you have a good narrative for viewers.


Alina Zagitova received a prize and speaks about how she is training in full force. Many people wish her well for the world championships.

 

[oatmella]

Evgenia has been added to the Osaka Stars on Ice cast - joining Alina, Liza, and others. The shows will take place March 29-31.
https://figureskate-soi.com/skaters.html

 

[Arbitrary]

May it imply that denying TUKT in favor of MED is all about to help ZAGI be higher at WC?

ZAGI, at her best, is well above both TUKT and MED at their best. I'd see quite opposite as having MED close all the way around doesn't help ZAGI.
Being not 'at her best' makes it absolutely irrelevant what place she will be: 10th or 15th or 22nd?

It's obvious there will be two participants next WC (or only one?) and RusFed did everything for it to happen. Maybe they want to shrink outcome?
Even if heavens crashed and ZAGI won gold what are chances for MED or Samodurova to be close enough to secure the 3rd spot?
MED at 12th place?

 

[Mathman]

Even if heavens crashed and ZAGI won gold what are chances for MED or Samodurova to be close enough to secure the 3rd spot?

I would hazzard 100%. :yes:

 

[Vandevska]

I'm not sure prior dominance, even if it was for years - is that relevant here or in other situations.

We haven't seen clean Evgenia in over a year anyways.

1 year ago was the Olympics. Are you living in an alternate Universe where she bombed the Olympics?????

 

[tempo]

Moscow City Championship 2019, elder age girls, free skate, live stream (countdown atm):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54jnixBT2OI

 

[oatmella]

1 year ago was the Olympics. Are you living in an alternate Universe where she bombed the Olympics?????

Olympics Ladies FS was just over a year ago.