Why? We're critiquing the jump, not the skater.
Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
Why? We're critiquing the jump, not the skater.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
We'll see next week, but last week it was some bittersweet icing. This event is hers to lose anyway.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0VXVdhJfuM
Lake Placid Liu's free skate
Protocol: https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567296459007-1.jpg
Judging by protocol she did clean 3A+2T and clean 4Lz. However, tech callers deliberately chose to ignore URs there. Proof:
3A<+2T
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-0.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-1.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-2.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-3.jpg exit from a jump
4Lz<
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-4.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-5.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-6.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-7.jpg exit from a jump
4Lz< from a judges camera (!)
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-8.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-9.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300627101-0.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300627101-1.jpg exit from a jump
Why I think it was deliberate? Because it's IMPOSSIBLE to not notice it when it was specifically chosen to replay it in slo-mo from various angles by experienced judges. Heck, it was so obvious that even Ted Barton stumbled a bit when he saw that landing in replay - just at the time wheh he praised how clean it was
It's a shame, really. Tbh, I can understand reason tech callers decided to do it - probably they need to push Liu as equal rival for Russians and uphold image of American star. It can even benefit ISU in raising fs popularity worldwide too. Still, I am adamant about sport principles - it's intolerable approach. Not that I have something against Liu - but they should made the calls properly. She would win anyway! Their help wasn't neccessary at all.
What make me really angry though - is that people now begin to consider both Valieva and Alysa as equally perfect quadsters :dev2: It's humiliating for Valieva or any clean quadsters out there. I mean - why bother to jump clean quads, improve your technique and spend years of hard work on them - if sloppy, lazy jump would give you full credit as well? Moreover, Trusova's 4Lz - which was much better than that - was called under in first JGP event, if you remember. Therefore Russian ladies need to rotate jumps in the air if they want full credit for them while for American/Japanese ladies to not fall or be too obvious in face-forward landing - is enough. If it's not double standarts - I don't know what it is :sarcasm:
Lake Placid Liu's free skate
Protocol: https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567296459007-1.jpg
Judging by protocol she did clean 3A+2T and clean 4Lz. However, tech callers deliberately chose to ignore URs there. Proof:
3A<+2T
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-0.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-1.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-2.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-3.jpg exit from a jump
4Lz<
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-4.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-5.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-6.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-7.jpg exit from a jump
4Lz< from a judges camera (!)
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-8.jpg beginning of a jump
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300609507-9.jpg take off
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300627101-0.jpg landing
https://neochan.ru/figs/src/1567300627101-1.jpg exit from a jump
Why I think it was deliberate? Because it's IMPOSSIBLE to not notice it when it was specifically chosen to replay it in slo-mo from various angles by experienced judges. Heck, it was so obvious that even Ted Barton stumbled a bit when he saw that landing in replay - just at the time wheh he praised how clean it was
It's a shame, really. Tbh, I can understand reason tech callers decided to do it - probably they need to push Liu as equal rival for Russians and uphold image of American star. It can even benefit ISU in raising fs popularity worldwide too. Still, I am adamant about sport principles - it's intolerable approach. Not that I have something against Liu - but they should made the calls properly. She would win anyway! Their help wasn't neccessary at all.
What make me really angry though - is that people now begin to consider both Valieva and Alysa as equally perfect quadsters :dev2: It's humiliating for Valieva or any clean quadsters out there. I mean - why bother to jump clean quads, improve your technique and spend years of hard work on them - if sloppy, lazy jump would give you full credit as well? Moreover, Trusova's 4Lz - which was much better than that - was called under in first JGP event, if you remember. Therefore Russian ladies need to rotate jumps in the air if they want full credit for them while for American/Japanese ladies to not fall or be too obvious in face-forward landing - is enough. If it's not double standarts - I don't know what it is :sarcasm:
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
Valieva vs Liu quad landing comparison -
http://prntscr.com/p07swv
http://prntscr.com/p07swv
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
Congrats Alysa for becoming the first woman EVER to land a 3A and quad in the same program!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
This reminds me of those endless You Tube videos that we used to see claiming indignantly to show that -- are you blind????!!!! -- Yuna Kim or Mao Asada had this fault or that.
OK.
Don't get mad, get even. Sit right down and write a stern email to the ISU. Don't forget a row of scowly-face emoticons. Make sure that your videos have a protractor superimposed to measure degrees accurately. Be sure to include the language, "as this clearly shows ..."
OK.
Don't get mad, get even. Sit right down and write a stern email to the ISU. Don't forget a row of scowly-face emoticons. Make sure that your videos have a protractor superimposed to measure degrees accurately. Be sure to include the language, "as this clearly shows ..."
Also we can maybe just be excited that the ladies are tackling such difficult elements and performing them so well? I mean, there were years there when a URed quad toe would win you a men's competition. And there were (are?) also years when men would land the quad and then have mistakes galore throughout the rest of the program and still win. This is new territory for the ladies field. Judging by the evolution of the men's event, we are in for some tumultuous years in the ladies event. But also groundbreaking. And I really do respect the guts it takes for Trusova, Liu, Scherbakova, Valieva, Tursynbaeva, & Kihira to go for their high-risk elements.
I think how long we waited for someone after Ito & Harding to try a triple axel. How long we waited for someone after Ando to get a quad. How much I loved watching Mao skate but also the frustration of knowing she forfeited axel points by not having a strong lutz to go with it. And now we have young ladies doing the full slate of other triples and going for the axel & quad(s) or both. It's exciting to see!
I think how long we waited for someone after Ito & Harding to try a triple axel. How long we waited for someone after Ando to get a quad. How much I loved watching Mao skate but also the frustration of knowing she forfeited axel points by not having a strong lutz to go with it. And now we have young ladies doing the full slate of other triples and going for the axel & quad(s) or both. It's exciting to see!
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
Mathman
If it didn't affect anything - noone would bother to be mad. But you know what? URs (called or uncalled) DOES affect many things. Including such minor things like reputation, podium places, careers etc. Of course fans of particular skaters are going to react to that - as long as it can influence well being of their favorite.
If it didn't affect anything - noone would bother to be mad. But you know what? URs (called or uncalled) DOES affect many things. Including such minor things like reputation, podium places, careers etc. Of course fans of particular skaters are going to react to that - as long as it can influence well being of their favorite.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2005
Were you this passionate when Zagitova had 5 uncalled URs at Worlds, namely 3L<+3Lo< and 3L+3T< which she had been doing all last season unchecked? This was no more egregious than any of hers. It is blatantly untrue that Russian skaters have not benefitted from faulty calling.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2019
The Madness of Crowds is a fabulous book as well as a whole field of research (I research & teach it) - and competitive sport relies upon it for audiences/fanbases. Despite having hyper-competitive parents & siblings, I've never been able to fathom competition either for myself or others. I was/am totally indifferent to it/baffled by it, which is part of why I study it - I'm like an alien watching fascinated.
So when I see or hear competitive carry on I don't think people are necessarily emotional and can't help themselves.Maybe?
..or maybe they are culturally conditioned to do the boo hiss thing on behalf of their imaginary team identity. Maybe they think it makes them sound individually cool or superior. Maybe they lack impulse control. Maybe they are mean spirited. The internet encourages appalling behaviour. I mean look at the great orange leader of the free world ...he sneers and denigrates people constantly and millions of lackeys cheer along or stand silently by.
So all bets are off, really...bullies are having a field day:-(
So when I see or hear competitive carry on I don't think people are necessarily emotional and can't help themselves.Maybe?
..or maybe they are culturally conditioned to do the boo hiss thing on behalf of their imaginary team identity. Maybe they think it makes them sound individually cool or superior. Maybe they lack impulse control. Maybe they are mean spirited. The internet encourages appalling behaviour. I mean look at the great orange leader of the free world ...he sneers and denigrates people constantly and millions of lackeys cheer along or stand silently by.
So all bets are off, really...bullies are having a field day:-(
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Congrats Alysa for becoming the first woman EVER to land a 3A and quad in the same program!
Congrats to Alysa!!!
Huge achievement (and eye roll to all those salty about it). 
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2017
- Country
-
Now it is time to demand raising minimum age for seniors. 
I only disagree with the judging of the first 3A, but she would have won anyway, so there is no reason for resentment. Even her personal best won't stay as low as 208.10 for long.
I only disagree with the judging of the first 3A, but she would have won anyway, so there is no reason for resentment. Even her personal best won't stay as low as 208.10 for long.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
Congrats to Alysa for landing the first 4Lz with +GOE.
(It was under, but at this rate she’ll get the full four rotations by Jr Worlds at the least).
(It was under, but at this rate she’ll get the full four rotations by Jr Worlds at the least).
Her lutz was as strong as Medvedeva's. She just got unlucky.
Congrats to Alysa to become the first lady in that era who could compete with top men. Imo you need a 3A and a quad for that, so you would be competitive in both programs. Sasha Trusova is close two but every top man do a 3A.
Though it's cool to see that it isn't mean to say that her jumps had flaws and that they should be called. Not only for the sake of the sport but also for their own sake. She should know that she has to work on her rotations because even her 3-3s looked suspect.
Each point matters, for the result and the reputation. There was only 1 point between 2nd and 5th place in the ladies event at worlds. And its frustrating to see a skater not getting the medal he/she deserved because of a judging mistake. A medal can change a lot in a career.
Though it's cool to see that it isn't mean to say that her jumps had flaws and that they should be called. Not only for the sake of the sport but also for their own sake. She should know that she has to work on her rotations because even her 3-3s looked suspect.
Each point matters, for the result and the reputation. There was only 1 point between 2nd and 5th place in the ladies event at worlds. And its frustrating to see a skater not getting the medal he/she deserved because of a judging mistake. A medal can change a lot in a career.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Uh, why are you bringing Alina into a thread about quads when she has no quads? But if that's the comparison, then for the record, only her -3Lo was UR at worlds and there was plenty outrage for it not being called. More than there is for Alysa's 4Lz, which was just about as rotated as that.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
Amazing effort from a young athlete sure deserves praise. It is indeed an achievement.
The quad however was UR, and should’ve been called. The goe I would argue also weren’t right.
Now her 4lz became the highest scoring solo jump by a woman in history of figure skating. Ever.
I don’t think I agree with that, I don’t think it was the best female jump we’ve ever seen.
But Alysa is still amazing nevertheless.
The calls and correct pcs however wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the competition, so I am not sure I get all the dislikes her videos are receiving. :-/
The quad however was UR, and should’ve been called. The goe I would argue also weren’t right.
Now her 4lz became the highest scoring solo jump by a woman in history of figure skating. Ever.
I don’t think I agree with that, I don’t think it was the best female jump we’ve ever seen.
But Alysa is still amazing nevertheless.
The calls and correct pcs however wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the competition, so I am not sure I get all the dislikes her videos are receiving. :-/
Similar threads
