Non Controversial Olympic Wins

[Skater Boy]

And a controversy because one of the judges admitted to cheating in favour of the Russians.

It was also a controversy because the Canadians were clean and the Russians had a visible error in their FS. The two teams were seen as pretty much on par with each other (edge to the Russians choreographically, edge to the Canadians emotionally, IMO), so it came down to who was cleaner. Had Anton not messed up the landing of his double axel, the technical scores for the Russians would have likely given them gold without the 5-4 split and the ensuing scandal. I am in agreement that their programs as a whole were better constructed than the Canadians' programs, but the elements of the Canadians were cleaner. There were other super minor errors on the part of the Russians too - the catch of the twist being awkward, and the throws could have had better flow with balance checks on both of the landings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ZuJfOz7g8


But Anton's obvious error was viewed by most people as the Russians having "left the door open", so long as the Canadians skated clean - which they did (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjY_LtNtVDc - you can hear Scott's commentary throughout... e.g. "throw triple loop and the gold is theirs" - and I don't think it was North American bias -- he probably legitimately assumed that a clean skate would beat a flawed skate ).

Too close to call. Using the 6.0 system give the edge to the Canadians and give the edge artistically to russia. Tie - goes to Russia - artistry wins. Not so clear cut.

 

[Osmond4gold]

And a controversy because one of the judges admitted to cheating in favour of the Russians.

It was also a controversy because the Canadians were clean and the Russians had a visible error in their FS. The two teams were seen as pretty much on par with each other (edge to the Russians choreographically, edge to the Canadians emotionally, IMO), so it came down to who was cleaner. Had Anton not messed up the landing of his double axel, the technical scores for the Russians would have likely given them gold without the 5-4 split and the ensuing scandal. I am in agreement that their programs as a whole were better constructed than the Canadians' programs, but the elements of the Canadians were cleaner. There were other super minor errors on the part of the Russians too - the catch of the twist being awkward, and the throws could have had better flow with balance checks on both of the landings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ZuJfOz7g8


But Anton's obvious error was viewed by most people as the Russians having "left the door open", so long as the Canadians skated clean - which they did (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjY_LtNtVDc - you can hear Scott's commentary throughout... e.g. "throw triple loop and the gold is theirs" - and I don't think it was North American bias -- he probably legitimately assumed that a clean skate would beat a flawed skate ).

Just rewatched both performances. If the ultimate goal of Pairs Teams is to skate as one or 2 skaters being a reflection of each other, then Sale & Pelletier were the clear winners here. Just look at that sit spin. Yes, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze may have had a tougher program but they had obvious flaws including the side by side jumps and the triple twist. As Sandra B. said, "They have never skated a clean program". Well, Jamie and David did and have in the past. Most shockingly, in what universe would the Russians beat the Canadians in presentation marks? I would say slower, tighter and skated with no emotion, connection or a get'er done attitude.

Both Teams were victims here not of their doing. Thanks Didier for once again f**king athletes as you did previously in Dance to benefit your own. Your contribution to the sport will always be...shameless! Almost 20 years later and we are still in recovery.

 

[mrrice]

I'm going to add Team Canada's Gold. They really had an amazing Olympics in 2018 and they all banded together and brought home the Gold. I was so happy for Patrick and the rest of the team.

 

[Mathman]

I'm going to add Team Canada's Gold. They really had an amazing Olympics in 2018 and they all banded together and brought home the Gold. I was so happy for Patrick and the rest of the team.

The stars perfectly alligned. Canada was able to field past, present, or future World Champions in every discipline. :yes:

 

[4everchan]

I'm going to add Team Canada's Gold. They really had an amazing Olympics in 2018 and they all banded together and brought home the Gold. I was so happy for Patrick and the rest of the team.

indeed... and everyone pulled their own weight where it mattered most : Patrick even won the LP but had remained close enough with a 3rd in the SP.... Gabby was amazing in her LP as well, considering she was "on paper" the less decorated one of the bunch, she was stella, Tessa and Scott set the tone for the dance event and of course Meagan and Eric made sure that they would deliver good enough programs not to be distanced. Making all these athletes olympic champions was such a treat!!!

Of course, there was a controversial moment in that brilliant win : leaving Weapo on the bench prevented them from getting a well-deserved Olympic medal... which is very unfortunate.... . but I am on the team of those who say : Canada couldn't take risks here and there was no way to predict that Patrick and Gabby would do so well in the LP portion of the event.... a couple ranks lower and it would have been a very regrettable decision not to have tessa and scott compete.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nationalism, yes. But I don't think that American nationalism automatically extends to North American chauvinism. I never noticed that USA announcers had any particular enthusiasm for Canadian athletes. (And in fact, Shen and Zhou had a big US fan base throughout their career.)



I read at the time -- I don't know if this is true or not -- that the ruling was that the fall out of the closing pose came after the program was officially over, so it was not held against the team in the scoring.

I would argue that the fall came on the closing pose. They did treat it with good humour though re-doing the pose. Jalousie was a bit "silly"/"playful" so it did feel in theme with the program - I don't know if the judges would have been as lenient if a fall came at the end of Love Story. But beyond that, even without the fall, I think I still preferred Shen and Zhao and would have scored the Chinese higher from a technical standpoint, even with the unison issue on the SBS spin - their program impressed me more.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I have liked Scott Hamilton for many years but the 2002 Winter Games were his high point as an analyst. It was too much of a cheerleader at those games but to be a cheerleader for people from Canada is a little bit perplexing.

It is a part of history and it changed figure skating scoring forever. But everything is still so confusing and if I go back and watch these two great pairs teams from the 2002 games I can make a case either way. But nothing I say or do is going to change history and what was done. I wish I could say scoring since the Salt Lake City games has gotten precipitously better. I just don't think I can say that. But it is what it is reality says this is a very difficult sport to judge.

For sure. And it's interesting to think how the course of figure skating would have gone if S/P had been Russian as well, or if S/Z landed that quad and possibly won, or if the French judge didn't come clean.

I think scoring has gotten better since SLC because judges are encouraged to score the skater as individuals instead of "rank" them. Under 6.0, if you wanted skater A to be ahead of skater B, you would do the math so that skater A beat skater B - or to make it less obvious you would tie them and give skater A the better tech/presentation score whether the SP or FS. Now a judge can still "rank" skaters via PCS or give generous/strict GOE, but now that elements have points, it's moreso out of the judges' hands as to the base value a skater can get so more competitions have been determined based on what the skaters actually put out there instead of reputation (which of course is still a factor given PCS/GOE favouring skaters they like). At least now there's a bit more of a post-mortem and scores aren't anonymous like early IJS, so there's greater accountability.

6.0 judging being based of rankings and results being factored placement points made it much harder to break into the top unless you had the reputation. Even if you slayed technically, a judge could give you 4.9's and drop you lower than a favourite who fell and did easier content. Certainly it's why in ice dance you wouldn't see much movement in the standings between Compulsory/Original/Free because the judges already had their pre-determined rankings unless a team fell, then they would dock them further and keep everything else as is. It's why there haven't been many controversial ice dance results (other than Torvill/Dean in 1994), because unless a major error is made it's pretty easy to place the teams. I used to joke that being an ice dance judge was the easiest job in the world under 6.0.

 

[Mathman]

Just rewatched both performances. If the ultimate goal of Pairs Teams is to skate as one or 2 skaters being a reflection of each other, then Sale & Pelletier were the clear winners here.

It is a difference in interpreting what "two skating as one" means. Sale and Pelletier had excellent unison. Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze used complementary shapes instead -- that is, the two fit together to make one picture. A different Pairs Skating philosophy.

It could have gone either way. Leaving out the French judge, the panel split 4-4. I am split 4-4, too (although I confess that I was rooting for Sale and Pelletier because I am a big Lori Nichol fan. :yes: )

 

[gkelly]

I am split 4-4, too

Sounds painful

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Leaving out the French judge, the panel split 4-4. I am split 4-4, too (although I confess that I was rooting for Sale and Pelletier because I am a big Lori Nichol fan. :yes: )

Off topic, but your post made me wonder, if there actually were a split panel in a 6.0 event (i.e. each of the top three skaters got three first, three second, and three third place ordinals), would the medals be awarded solely on the SP placements? I found the resolution of awarding S&P the gold unusual for that reason, since the LP panel would have voted 4-4 by excluding the French judge, but that ignores the SP placement.

 

[Mathman]

indeed... and everyone pulled their own weight where it mattered most... Gabby was amazing in her LP ...

It was like the pinch hitter who is called up and knocks it out of the park. She held off Kostner and Sakamoto, almost nipped Miraai Nagasu with a triple Axel, and gave Osmond a rest for the individuals.

As for Patrick, he did what he came to do. USA and Russian men lost it in the SP, leaving those countries behind the 8-ball going into the home stretch.

 

[gkelly]

Off topic, but your post made me wonder, if there actually were a split panel in a 6.0 event (i.e. each of the top three skaters got three first, three second, and three third place ordinals), would the medals be awarded solely on the SP placements?

In a normal 6.0 event, the factored placements from all phases of the competition determine the event. Once the results of the free program are determined, even if there is determined to be a tie in that phase, the details of how that FP result was arrived it would no longer be relevant.

If two skaters had identical (tied) placements in the freeskate and different placements in the short program, then the short program results would determine the overall winner.

I found the resolution of awarding S&P the gold unusual for that reason, since the LP panel would have voted 4-4 by excluding the French judge, but that ignores the SP placement.

Agreed. It was a hasty solution to quell the controversy and allow the rest of the Olympics to proceed without being overshadowed. But it wasn't within the existing rules of skating scoring at the time.

 

[Mathman]

If two skaters had identical (tied) placements in the freeskate and different placements in the short program, then the short program results would determine the overall winner.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible to be tied in both SP and LP (the Condorcet paradox). It might even have actually happened at some lower-level event where maybe there are only 3 competors, approximately evenly matched.

One rule that might have been applied, though, is the one that says if a judge has to be removed, then the scores of the substitute judge count instead. I believe that in the 2002 pairs event the substitute judge had Sale and Pelletier first in the LP and Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze second, which would have given S&P the win in the LP and overall.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

One rule that might have been applied, though, is the one that says if a judge has to be removed, then the scores of the substitute judge count instead. I believe that in the 2002 pirs event the substitute judge had Sale and Pelletier firstin the LP and Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze second, which would have given S&P the win in the LP and overall.

That could have caused a huge mess since you'd probably have to swap out those scores for the entire field. Imagine if you had several 5-4 finishes in the LP that flipped as a result, especially losing bronze over a judging deal that the 3rd and 4th place finishers' federations had no part of.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

This is the non controversial wins thread.

There is a thread about wins you don't agree with. If there is not a thread about the team event and it's viability and authenticity feel free to start one.

Lets try to stay on topic.

 

[yume]

To stay on topic, I think team golds are the most non controversial wins in olympic history so far.
I enjoy it like i enjoyed the school fair. Like the cheesy WTT.
I'll be rooting for China to take the bronze in 2022

 

[Baron Vladimir]

i think Canada won fair that team competion. However, the fact is that Russia wasnt able to send their best team, and all the things happening before the Olympics certanly affected their skaters. I remember i simulated multiple outcomes based on that season results and Russia (with Stepanova/ Bukin and Stolbova/ Klimov) was a winner in vast majority of cases. Canadian skaters actually did what is predicted in terms of their individual results for the whole team. Russian skaters (maybe for those reasons hardly predictable) just didn't.

 

[glacial87]

1992 Pairs, Dance, Ladies
1994 - - -
1998 Pairs, Men ... Ladies
2002 Men
2006 Pairs, Men, Dance, Ladies
2010 Pairs, Ladies ... Dance
2014 Pairs, Men, Dance
2018 Men ... Ladies

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Seems like this result isn't a "Non Controversial Olympic Win"

 

[4everchan]

Seems like this result isn't a "Non Controversial Olympic Win"

well it isn't, except for one poster