Women and the Quad

Amei · Oct 6, 2019

Elucidus said:
Judging by Japan Open protocols Sasha's jumps were worse than Miyahara's and on par with Nagasu jumps. It's definitely.. an enlightment :shocked: I've never noticed it until judges pointed out it to me. Thanks, judges! :yes:
And it appears she degraded in her abilities to do all technical elements after two weeks too https://i.ibb.co/GWRtqx8/1570314404589.jpg
Is she injured, I wonder? What a pity :disapp:

What's the first word in front of 'Open'...home-cooking is and always will be apart of figure skating; Russia, the US, Canada, China, France and many more have done the same thing.

Similar to Lombardia with Shcherbakova's score in comparison to another seasoned senior - at least it wasn't at their GP events which hopefully will have better judging.

ec00834 · Oct 6, 2019

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3S5HImHLCT/

A more recent 3A attempt from Sasha. It's definitely not rotated enough but she gets pretty good height. Not sure if she's crying or laughing at the end.

MRani · Oct 6, 2019

ec00834 said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3S5HImHLCT/

A more recent 3A attempt from Sasha. It's definitely not rotated enough but she gets pretty good height. Not sure if she's crying or laughing at the end.

Sasha always struck me more as the laugh off her mistakes type. This will be a lovely jump when she finally gets it down.

Amei · Oct 6, 2019

MRani said:
Sasha always struck me more as the laugh off her mistakes type. This will be a lovely jump when she finally gets it down.

That clip appeared to be part of the Japanese show that was done late last year or early this year; pretty sure she was crying, she fell several times - looked to tweak her ankle

They talk about only 30 minutes of basic skating

Mishaminion · Oct 6, 2019

MRani said:
Sasha always struck me more as the laugh off her mistakes type. This will be a lovely jump when she finally gets it down.

Is she still working on a 3A?

MRani · Oct 6, 2019

Amei said:
That clip appeared to be part of the Japanese show that was done late last year or early this year; pretty sure she was crying, she fell several times - looked to tweak her ankle

They talk about only 30 minutes of basic skating

Awww, in that case, hugs to bb Sasha from 1 year ago <3

So not a recent 3A attempt after all then.

Amei · Oct 6, 2019

Mishaminion said:
Is she still working on a 3A?

Both her and Shcherbakova should be to to be competitive with Rika in the SP; I would say Kostornaia as well but I remember she said in an interview that whenever she starts to train the triple axel that is when she starts to get injuries - maybe they should work on her some quads, Shcherbakova had a quad like a year after breaking her leg so perhaps the mechanics of the quad is better on the lower legs than the triple axel.

lzxnl · Oct 6, 2019

Elucidus said:
Judging by Japan Open protocols Sasha's jumps were worse than Miyahara's and on par with Nagasu jumps. It's definitely.. an enlightment :shocked: I've never noticed it until judges pointed out it to me. Thanks, judges! :yes:
And it appears she degraded in her abilities to do all technical elements after two weeks too https://i.ibb.co/GWRtqx8/1570314404589.jpg
Is she injured, I wonder? What a pity :disapp:

Satoko deserves every deduction on her jumps, but only her jumps.
Alina is heavily overscored.
Sasha's GOEs were probably a fraction high in some cases (the scores on both her 4Ts were a bit generous), but then her 4S was quite nice. Her triples were certainly better than Satoko's by miles.

I'd argue that Rika was underscored. Some of her jumps were lovely; her opening 3S, her 2A-2T-2Lo, both 3Fs deserved more points. The 3Lo deduction was fair.

lzxnl · Oct 6, 2019

Amei said:
What's the first word in front of 'Open'...home-cooking is and always will be apart of figure skating; Russia, the US, Canada, China, France and many more have done the same thing.

Similar to Lombardia with Shcherbakova's score in comparison to another seasoned senior - at least it wasn't at their GP events which hopefully will have better judging.

Not with Japan. Worlds this year? Evgenia was carried to a Worlds medal at Rika's expense.

skatergurl7 · Oct 6, 2019

lzxnl said:
Not with Japan. Worlds this year? Evgenia was carried to a Worlds medal at Rika's expense.

Evgenia skated clean which is why her PCS was higher. Rika once again was playing catch up from the short program. Evgenia wasn’t carried, rika just lost the medal for herself.

ec00834 · Oct 6, 2019

lzxnl said:
Not with Japan. Worlds this year? Evgenia was carried to a Worlds medal at Rika's expense.

No. Rika popped her 3A in her short and still got 70 points which is quite generous. She had every chance to medal in the free but she blew it.

readernick · Oct 6, 2019

lzxnl said:
Satoko deserves every deduction on her jumps, but only her jumps.
Alina is heavily overscored.
Sasha's GOEs were probably a fraction high in some cases (the scores on both her 4Ts were a bit generous), but then her 4S was quite nice. Her triples were certainly better than Satoko's by miles.

I'd argue that Rika was underscored. Some of her jumps were lovely; her opening 3S, her 2A-2T-2Lo, both 3Fs deserved more points. The 3Lo deduction was fair.

I agree Rika was underscored. Her jumps are high ( they get bigger each year) and effortless. She also has nice transitions into the jumps you mentioned.

About Sasha, I would urge anyone who thinks she was underscored to actually watch that performance then read the ISU bullet points for jump GOE, both positive and negative. I would argue based on the criteria that the GOE was generous. In her previous competition, she had really nice landings, in this competition the landings were not good, she had 3 turns between her combo ( both of these result in big negative GOE according to the ISU rules)

About Satoko, it should be impossible for her to get more than +3 on a jump because of the lack of height/ distance. But, if she has good landings and transitions she can get +2 fairly according to the ISU bullet points.

ec00834 · Oct 7, 2019

Rika's 3As had really good distance but both landings were a little shaky. Her other triples did not have impressive height or distance. Her performance wasn't there either. I think her scores were fair. :shrug:

skatergurl7 · Oct 7, 2019

ec00834 said:
Rika's 3As had really good distance but both landings were a little shaky. Her other triples did not have impressive height or distance. Her performance wasn't there either. I think her scores were fair.

Yeah I’m not a fan of either programs this year. They just don’t stand out to me. Although if we’re comparing her components to Sasha’s, program-wise Sasha’s are more exciting and builds intensity which I think balances out with her poor SS. rika should go back to her last year’s FS, the music carried her more whereas these programs make her performances seem very forced.

readernick · Oct 7, 2019

ec00834 said:
Rika's 3As had really good distance but both landings were a little shaky. Her other triples did not have impressive height or distance. Her performance wasn't there either. I think her scores were fair.

Her 3A is incredibly high. But, I think the GOE on them was fair because while the landing position was nice the skate was too far forward. But, I don't think you actually watched her program if you think her 3S and 3Fs are not high/ cover a lot of distance. Compare their height/ distance to Alina's triples or Sasha's triples. They cover so much more ice they look effortless/ smooth and her transitions into her 3S and single 3flip and beautiful. I think you need to watch this actual performance and not judge based on your assumptions. Rika's jumps were not big as a junior ( good technique, full rotation, but not a lot of height/ distance) but now they are ( they exception being the 3loop which always has a weird axis).

ec00834 · Oct 7, 2019

readernick said:
Her 3A is incredibly high. But, I think the GOE on them was fair because while the landing position was nice the skate was too far forward. But, I don't think you actually watched her program if you think her 3S and 3Fs are not high/ cover a lot of distance. Compare their height/ distance to Alina's triples or Sasha's triples. They cover so much more ice they look effortless/ smooth and her transitions into her 3S and single 3flip and beautiful. I think you need to watch this actual performance and not judge based on your assumptions. Rika's jumps were not big as a junior ( good technique, full rotation, but not a lot of height/ distance) but now they are ( they exception being the 3loop which always has a weird axis).

Beautiful doesn't mean that it always has to have good height or distance. I watched her program and besides the few moments where she showed some expression, I just didn't feel much honestly. I didn't feel much performance-wise from Sasha's program either. I do think Alina's triples have much more height than Rika's though.

readernick · Oct 7, 2019

ec00834 said:
Beautiful doesn't mean that it always has to have good height or distance. I watched her program and besides the few moments where she showed some expression, I just didn't feel much honestly. I didn't feel much performance-wise from Sasha's program either. I do think Alina's triples have much more height than Rika's though.

You feeling something has nothing too do with any PCS category other than, perhaps intrepretation. I have never felt anything from Alina's programs ( until the sp this year) but that doesn't mean she didn't deserve high transistion, and performance execution marks. You may feel nothing from Rika's performance but that has nothing to do with if she should get high SS, transistion, performance execution , and choreography marks if she is doing these things well.

Your feeling also have nothing to do with what I was discussing which is jump GOE. Using the ISU bullet points her high ( some of Alina's jumps are high, certainly not her 2A in either instance, but none cover much distance)/ distance covering, good landing and take off, effortless, proceeding transistions, short set up 3F and 3S, deserve higher GOE than they received. The 3F+3T also deserves higher GOE based on ISU bullet points. That is my point.

You can certainly dislike her program that doesn't change the way scoring is suppose to work according to the ISU.

Mathman · Oct 7, 2019

Mishaminion said:
I'd hardly call being only 6 points ahead of Alina "crushing the competition."
Alina who has no quads but very high GOE and PCS, deserved or not.

In most competitions Alina would possibly win overall because (unless Trusova adds a 3A) of a major PCS advantage in the SP.
You honestly don't think there's something a bit odd about her jumps being given similar GOE to Miyahara and Nagasu?

I for one have no beef with the judging. Trusova skated the best and won. Zagitova skated the second best and got second. Kihira skated the third best and got third. Miyahira skated the fourth best and got fourth. Tennell and Nagasu were fifth and sixth best and got fifth and sixth.

As for the men, Nathan Chen skated the best and got first ...

Sure it's possible that Olympic and World champion Zagitova will win some event over Trusova this year.

But I don't think so.

Alex65 · Oct 7, 2019

TripleAxelQueens3 said:
For anyone who says Sasha was blatantly overscored (which isn’t a whole lot of people on Holden Skate but in general the crowd is quite a big one) - does Sasha jump worse than Satoko? Does she PR 190 degrees on her jumps and still get no height and barely a manage a fully rotated triple? Sure is PCS Satoko reigns dominant, but in GOEs... Sasha should’ve gotten much higher GOEs. Sure some landings were shaky, but the height? The tight body position? How effortless her 4Lz and 3Lz was.. that wasn't rewarded and that’s unfair.

Looking at her marks, I would decide that the judges rated her here in the old 3GOE system. It is funny to see + 2GOE for all pure elements and 0 + 1GOE if with a small error. For some reason, I remembered the final of COR 19 with a full + 4 for the winner from the all judges.

Elucidus · Oct 7, 2019

http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...empo-sending-figure-skating-into-future-shock

Women and the Quad

Amei

ec00834

MRani

Amei

Mishaminion

MRani

Amei

lzxnl

lzxnl

skatergurl7

ec00834

readernick

ec00834

skatergurl7

readernick

ec00834

readernick

Mathman

Alex65

Elucidus

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