2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating

Warwick360 · Nov 10, 2018

leoleo said:
To be fair, commentators watch endless competitions every season, it's normal to forget this or that.

Commentators who watch day in and day out are the ones I would hope would know about notable performances from the past. If it was only Simon Reed, I would understand; the guy is passionate in commentating but hardly has much knowledge in most sports he commentates (even though he's been in that business for decades). But the other person who seems fairly more knowledgeable should have known a thing or two about it. It's just annoying when a general skating viewer would probably know more about this than the experts.

leoleo · Nov 10, 2018

Jesus christ, at least some nasty people never change with their dumb comments :rolleye:

now Satoko should retire and should be nowhere near the top 5 at Worlds

i'm just mind blown by the stupidity of some people sometimes!

Colonel Green · Nov 10, 2018

Rika just needs to start landing that 3A in the short and then she's really in business.

largeman · Nov 10, 2018

Leonardo said:
That really bothered me as well, lol

Yeah me too

It’s pretty sad but forgivable

But they also kept calling Mao “two time world champion” throughout the 2015/16 season... now that was unforgivable because aren’t they supposed to have some cheat sheets with key data about the skaters right in front of them?

yume · Nov 10, 2018

largeman said:
Yeah me too

It’s pretty sad but forgivable

But they also kept calling Mao “two time world champion” throughout the 2015/16 season... now that was unforgivable because aren’t they supposed to have some cheat sheets with key data about the skaters right in front of them?

B.esp commentators never seems to love that much Mao anyway, given the shade they were usually throwing at her (like at 2010 and 2014 worlds). So easier to forget things about her assume.

hippomoomin · Nov 10, 2018

I am really happy for Rika. Didn't expect judges would score her so well relatively to Satoko. Her 3A looked so easy and secure. Every lady training a 3A should watch her footage and use that as an example.

To me Satoko's jumps in the LP regressed to her last year's tiny level， while her jumps at SA were better.

rikaquegira · Nov 10, 2018

leoleo said:
Jesus christ, at least some nasty people never change with their dumb comments now Satoko should retire and should be nowhere near the top 5 at Worlds i'm just mind blown by the stupidity of some people sometimes!

These people want jumps, jumps, jumps, jumps, juuuuuuuuuuumps!!!!
:rofl:

And the way they speak of Satoko's jumps you'd think their favorites(whom they defend so fiercely and turn to the other side when they are being overscored) would be the epitome of perfect jumps with textbook technique, beautiful transitions in and out, great height and distance, no edge problems, no flutz, no lip, no strange axel technique, no suspicious toe pick, no extreme upper body effort into jump, no pre-rotation whatsoever, just clean and marvellous perfect jumps!

Also, some people seem to still be stuck into the old GOE scale. It's not that difficult to get +3s across the board.

Some people argue that Satoko has poor take-off and landing because of her extreme pre-rotation. I would totally agree IF pre-rotation was a thing in the eyes of ISU. ISU does not care the tiniest bit about pre-rotation, that term does not exist in their vocabulary it seems. :laugh:

So why punish Satoko for it if no one else is being punished??? Because if you're going to punish Satoko for pre-rotating I can make an extensive list of other skaters who pre-rotates their jumps way too much.

The URs, which is a thing that ISU recognizes(thank god) should indeed be punished but Satoko has never landed her jumps cleaner than now, most of her jumps look rotated, when not, I'm all for her jumps being called, of course. And she may lose bullet 2 just by having a shaky landing or something, in that case of course I wouldn't give that bullet.

Anyway, even if you don't give her bullet 2, bullets 3 and 5 can still be a given. I think her jumps do look effortless and she does have good body position from take-off to landing. The swinging leg on the toe jumps is a bit strange, yes, but I think it's ok, it doesn't bother me much. Still, even if you take away bullet 5, there are still bullets 6 and 4 which she would get in some of her jumps(Satoko has some of the very best transitions this season and her entire programs are musical, she usually does not miss a beat, neither in the SP or FS).
So, I think there are 5 possible bullets to be awarded to Satoko's jumps imo, according to how I interpret the rules(of course people might interpret differently). Deductions might apply(to her flat edge on the Lutz for instance) but overall I'm not surprised by +3s on her jumps and I don't think it's an absurd. Now, higher than that you'd have to be halucinating!! :laugh:

What do you guys think? How would you score Satoko's jumps from NHK?

Here are the bullets:

1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music

My scores of the FS:

3S:
+2 (bullets 3 and 5)
3Lz!3T:
+1 (bullets 3, 5 and 6 -2 for unclear edge)
3Lo:
+3 ( bullets 2, 3, 4, 5)
3Lz! :
+1 (bullets 3, 5 and 6 -2 for unclear edge)
2A<+3T:
0 (3, 5 and 6 -3 for UR)
3F+2T+2Lo< :
+1 (bullets 3, 4, 5 and 6 -3 for UR)
2A:
+3 (bullets 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6)

PS.: sorry for the very long post. :laugh:

leoleo · Nov 10, 2018

hippomoomin said:
I am really happy for Rika. Didn't expect judges would score her so well relatively to Satoko. Her 3A looked so easy and secure. Every lady training a 3A should watch her footage and use that as an example.

To me Satoko's jumps in the LP regressed to her last year's tiny level， while her jumps at SA were better.

I think it is easy to go back to your old habits under pressure. For example, Brian Orser said Medvedeva can land a 3lz with an outside edge in practice but in competition it is still very much a flutz, Zagitova can do a great 3lz-3lo in practice but tends to underrotate it in competition. Satoko was in 2nd after the sp, with a tiny gap, she skated after seeing both Rika's and Liza's performances, she must have felt the pressure to do her absolute best to win. In my opinion she looked more intense today than she did at SkAm where she just floated so elegantly probably pretty secure that she could win if she just went clean (she had the lead by several points), must be because she was too focused on trying to land everything perfectly today that her old habits came back full force. Not that her URs were not there at SkAm, but she definitely had more URs today.

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 10, 2018

rikaquegira said:
What do you guys think? How would you score Satoko's jumps from NHK?

Here are the bullets:

1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music

I would maybe give Satoko bullet #6 for her jumps being with the music but they are so disruptive at times even that is a bit of a stretch. Bullets 1,2,3 and 5 are a big NO on my scoresheet. So she might at best get a couple +2’s from me here and there. I’ve always liked her loop and axel.

I don’t know...I’m tired of the whole discussion and think I’m just gonna ignore most of the senior GP this season. I do think there is a reasonable argument that Satoko could fairly receive higher PCS scores but I think there is also a fair argument that she should probably lose far more in her TES score than she could ever gain in PCS.

I’m glad people love her programs and presence. I do too. The thing is...I do think there is a reasonable discussion that her jump deficiencies drastically outweigh any perceived PCS advantage she “should” get.

leoleo · Nov 10, 2018

I don't think anybody could defend Satoko getting higher goes than Liza (whose jumps are probably the closest to perfection in the ladies field), i do believe her GOEs tend to be generous for what her jumps are. The pre-rotation argument is proper Bullsh:curse:t tho because the list of skaters who pre-rotate without seeing their scores go down is endless. It is just not something that was ever punished by the ISU.

@Rikaquegira i am exhausted, it is always the same people too

It is my first time seeing someone call Yulia a jumping goddess, her jumping technique was very flawed if i remember well :think: but this is not the thread for it

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 10, 2018

leoleo said:
It is my first time seeing someone call Yulia a jumping goddess, her jumping technique was very flawed if i remember well :think: but this is not the thread for it

I thought we were in the main event thread so when I saw we were in a different one I pulled that comment back. I wasn’t complimenting Yulia though...it was sarcasm. I think we both know that.

leoleo · Nov 10, 2018

Sam-Skwantch said:
I thought we were in the main event thread so when I saw we were in a different one I pulled that comment back. I wasn’t complimenting Yulia though...it was sarcasm. I think we both know that.

I did not catch that :laugh:

it is hard to spot sarcasm in a language you're not fluent in :noshake:

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 10, 2018

leoleo said:
I did not catch that it is hard to spot sarcasm in a language you're not fluent in :noshake:

It’s all good

yume · Nov 10, 2018

rikaquegira said:
These people want jumps, jumps, jumps, jumps, juuuuuuuuuuumps!!!!

And the way they speak of Satoko's jumps you'd think their favorites(whom they defend so fiercely and turn to the other side when they are being overscored) would be the epitome of perfect jumps with textbook technique, beautiful transitions in and out, great height and distance, no edge problems, no flutz, no lip, no strange axel technique, no suspicious toe pick, no extreme upper body effort into jump, no pre-rotation whatsoever, just clean and marvellous perfect jumps!

Also, some people seem to still be stuck into the old GOE scale. It's not that difficult to get +3s across the board.

Some people argue that Satoko has poor take-off and landing because of her extreme pre-rotation. I would totally agree IF pre-rotation was a thing in the eyes of ISU. ISU does not care the tiniest bit about pre-rotation, that term does not exist in their vocabulary it seems. So why punish Satoko for it if no one else is being punished??? Because if you're going to punish Satoko for pre-rotating I can make an extensive list of other skaters who pre-rotates their jumps way too much.
The URs, which is a thing that ISU recognizes(thank god) should indeed be punished but Satoko has never landed her jumps cleaner than now, most of her jumps look rotated, when not, I'm all for her jumps being called, of course. And she may lose bullet 2 just by having a shaky landing or something, in that case of course I wouldn't give that bullet.

Anyway, even if you don't give her bullet 2, bullets 3 and 5 can still be a given. I think her jumps do look effortless and she does have good body position from take-off to landing. The swinging leg on the toe jumps is a bit strange, yes, but I think it's ok, it doesn't bother me much. Still, even if you take away bullet 5, there are still bullets 6 and 4 which she would get in some of her jumps(Satoko has some of the very best transitions this season and her entire programs are musical, she usually does not miss a beat, neither in the SP or FS).
So, I think there are 5 possible bullets to be awarded to Satoko's jumps imo, according to how I interpret the rules(of course people might interpret differently). Deductions might apply(to her flat edge on the Lutz for instance) but overall I'm not surprised by +3s on her jumps and I don't think it's an absurd. Now, higher than that you'd have to be halucinating!!

What do you guys think? How would you score Satoko's jumps from NHK?

Here are the bullets:

1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music

My scores of the FS:

3S:
+2 (bullets 3 and 5)
3Lz!3T:
+1 (bullets 3, 5 and 6 -2 for unclear edge)
3Lo:
+3 ( bullets 2, 3, 4, 5)
3Lz! :
+1 (bullets 3, 5 and 6 -2 for unclear edge)
2A<+3T:
0 (3, 5 and 6 -3 for UR)
3F+2T+2Lo< :
+1 (bullets 3, 4, 5 and 6 -3 for UR)
2A:
+3 (bullets 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6)

PS.: sorry for the very long post.

I know that i'm the only one but i don't find her jumps effortless, mostly combos. The only jump which is effortless is the 2A IMO.

3S:
+1 (bullet 5)
3Lz<!3T:
-2 ( unclear edge + UR, bullet 6)
3Lo:
+2 ( bullets 4, 5)
3Lz! :
0 (bullet 6, unclear edge)
2A<+3T:
-1 (bullet 6, UR)
3F!<+2T+2Lo< :
-4 (bullet 4, 2 URs, unclear edge)
2A:
+2 (bullets 4, 5 and 6)

And i'm kind.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 10, 2018

Effortless is such a weird bullet... you look at any skater in the air and it's obvious they are taking effort. To me effortless denotes no struggle or extra effort in a jump like a mule kick or fighting to save a scratchy/poor landing.

I will say a lot of Rika and Satoko's jumps appeared effortless. Especially Rika's who looked as though she was doing a practice, that's how easy they were. Congrats to both of them!

Lol at those who might suggest this was some huge blow to Satoko or that it's over for her... with a score of 219.47

chloepoco · Nov 10, 2018

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Lol at those who might suggest this was some huge blow to Satoko or that it's over for her... with a score of 219.47

And there’s also someone on here wishing that she would retire...

rikaquegira · Nov 10, 2018

yume said:
I know that i'm the only one but i don't find her jumps effortless, mostly combos. The only jump which is effortless is the 2A IMO.

3S:
+1 (bullet 5)
3Lz<!3T:
-2 ( unclear edge + UR, bullet 6)
3Lo:
+2 ( bullets 4, 5)
3Lz! :
0 (bullet 6, unclear edge)
2A<+3T:
-1 (bullet 6, UR)
3F!<+2T+2Lo< :
-4 (bullet 4, 2 URs, unclear edge)
2A:
+2 (bullets 4, 5 and 6)

And i'm kind.

Seven more posters and we can make our own judging panel here! :laugh:

yume · Nov 10, 2018

rikaquegira said:
Seven more posters and we can make our own judging panel here!

Yes

Not that our scoring worth something.

ioanna · Nov 10, 2018

chloepoco said:
And there’s also someone on here wishing that she would retire...

I think this is the 5th consecutive season in which I've heard about someone wishing she would retire. :laugh:

Vandevska · Nov 10, 2018

Congratulations to Rika! She left me compler speechless today!

2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating

Warwick360

leoleo

Colonel Green

largeman

choice beef

yume

🍉

hippomoomin

rikaquegira

leoleo

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

leoleo

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

leoleo

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

yume

🍉

CanadianSkaterGuy

chloepoco

rikaquegira

yume

🍉

ioanna

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.

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