2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

skylark · Jan 31, 2019

frida80 said:
I don’t think they forget that at all. Even when told that he was born in Ontario, they still insist because his parents are Russian he’s Russian too. I gave up on explaining.

Maybe it's whether you think more in terms of (1) place of birth and citizenship, or of (2) ethnic heritage.

In America and Canada, the thinking has evolved over time. We're more likely to think of citizenship, and our language has started to reflect that. We're more likely to read about a citizen who's Chinese-American, or Russian-American now, and to speak that way also. But it hasn't always been the case. John F. Kennedy was known as the first Irish Catholic President, when it should have been Irish-American president. John F. Kennedy, his mother and father, and all four of his grandparents were born in America. And reference to religion would not now be attached to his name like it was.

I wonder what does it mean when all these younger stars are starting to emerge like this? Is it something we should be concerned about? I’m not sure if I like this trend.

It's predictable, when the system favors the measurable and rewards the technique. Then there's the fact that older skaters have often had to change their technique, which takes years before the old muscle memory no longer takes over, upon the addition of adrenaline and competition nerves.

For years, I've been reading posts here about how the US needs to push and reward skating technique in the younger skaters, and try to keep up with the rest of the world. Well, here we are.

FWIW, I'm not sure I like it either. But also FWIW, I am thrilled with Alysa Liu. I'm a convert, a True Liu :love:

Fan, as of last week. I also think -- and hope :pray:

-- that she'll be able to survive the perils of early stardom. Michelle Kwan did it.

frida80 · Jan 31, 2019

Casual said:
"Toula, there are two kinds of people: Greeks, and everybody else who wish they was Greek."

I love that movie. Really one of the cutest movies ever. Sadly it reminds me there was a little girl I loved to watch skate who was of Greek descent. She was talented and passionate, but her injuries did in her.

MarinHondas · Feb 1, 2019

frida80 said:
I love that movie. Really one of the cutest movies ever. Sadly it reminds me there was a little girl I loved to watch skate who was of Greek descent. She was talented and passionate, but her injuries did in her. :sad:

Who?

frida80 · Feb 1, 2019

MarinHondas said:
Who?

Her name is Gia Kokotakis.

MarinHondas · Feb 1, 2019

frida80 said:
Her name is Gia Kokotakis.

Oh yes, I remember her. I remember she was wonderful as an Intermediate and won a medal despite not have a double axel. I saw a couple years ago that she managed to get all the way through 3lutz. Her spins were unbelieveable.

frida80 · Feb 1, 2019

MarinHondas said:
Oh yes, I remember her. I remember she was wonderful as an Intermediate and won a medal despite not have a double axel. I saw a couple years ago that she managed to get all the way through 3lutz. Her spins were unbelieveable.

Yeah, she was special. She did get her Lutz and other triples. But something happened last season. She’s been struggling with injuries for years, I’m glad she was able to get a nationals medal. But I so wanted her to make it. After all the Olympics were in her blood.

Hevari · Feb 2, 2019

skylark said:
For years, I've been reading posts here about how the US needs to push and reward skating technique in the younger skaters, and try to keep up with the rest of the world. Well, here we are.
.

You mean all that ugly stuff like "PCS for jumps with less connection to "real" components abilities of skaters" judging? I don't thing that you're right if so... Just because that's against the sport and it's principles.

Don't allow the glitter of gold to make you blind...

skylark · Feb 2, 2019

Hevari said:
You mean all that ugly stuff like "PCS for jumps with less connection to "real" components abilities of skaters" judging? I don't thing that you're right if so... Just because that's against the sport and it's principles.

Don't allow the glitter of gold to make you blind...

As a matter fact, I have never allowed the glitter of gold to make me blind, and I don't now. I like Alysa because I like Alysa.

As for the first paragraph of your post, I don't understand it ... what you're asking me or what you're accusing me of. Perhaps you misunderstood my post also.

Hevari · Feb 3, 2019

skylark said:
As a matter fact, I have never allowed the glitter of gold to make me blind, and I don't now. I like Alysa because I like Alysa.

As for the first paragraph of your post, I don't understand it ... what you're asking me or what you're accusing me of. Perhaps you misunderstood my post also.

I just wanted you to say exactly what do you mean under the "reward skating technique"? Overscore in PCS skaters with bigger TES? Or what? Just because IJS itself has tools for revarding tecnnique called BV and GOE.

klutzy · Feb 4, 2019

I'm with Andromache in that I wish Alysa Liu hadn't won for her sake. Silver would have been a great position and she'd have had another year to fly under the radar and deal with possible adolescence. That said, she deserved the win. Bradie's a decent competitor, but nerves seemed to get to her during the FS. I think, though, she'll have a good 4 CC and/or Worlds. Her season's been like that--she beat Medvedeva, then fell short of the podium at Skate America, which was supposed to a sure thing. She then got a bronze at a competition with a deeper field and ended up with clean win at the Golden Spin. At Nationals she went from her best most-felt short of the season to her weakest FS. I think she's still learning how to keep her focus under the pressure of expectations. It's never easy.

Mariah's been lovely this season, but part of the reason she's so enjoyable to watch is that she wears her heart on her sleeve, which means she's also sensitive to pressure. Being tucked right behind Bradie might be a good position for her at Worlds and 4 CC.

Ting's jumps are fairylike--really beautiful, but she doesn't look like she's hit puberty yet--all legs, no hips. If she has that floating jump in a couple of years, I'll be delighted, but she's in that in-between stage.

I noticed that posters have been grouping Polina with Gracie,Mirai and Courtney Hicks. Just a reminder, Polina is younger than Mariah and a few months younger than Bradie. She's a year older than Karen Chen. And in assessing her long-term potential, I'd group her with Chen--both have been sidelined by stubborn foot injuries.

Speaking of Gracie, I've been catching up on skating stuff--just have to say that triple flip of hers on Instagram was just lovely.

Jammers · Feb 4, 2019

klutzy said:
I'm with Andromache in that I wish Alysa Liu hadn't won for her sake. Silver would have been a great position and she'd have had another year to fly under the radar and deal with possible adolescence. That said, she deserved the win. Bradie's a decent competitor, but nerves seemed to get to her during the FS. I think, though, she'll have a good 4 CC and/or Worlds. Her season's been like that--she beat Medvedeva, then fell short of the podium at Skate America, which was supposed to a sure thing. She then got a bronze at a competition with a deeper field and ended up with clean win at the Golden Spin. At Nationals she went from her best most-felt short of the season to her weakest FS. I think she's still learning how to keep her focus under the pressure of expectations. It's never easy.

Mariah's been lovely this season, but part of the reason she's so enjoyable to watch is that she wears her heart on her sleeve, which means she's also sensitive to pressure. Being tucked right behind Bradie might be a good position for her at Worlds and 4 CC.

Ting's jumps are fairylike--really beautiful, but she doesn't look like she's hit puberty yet--all legs, no hips. If she has that floating jump in a couple of years, I'll be delighted, but she's in that in-between stage.

I noticed that posters have been grouping Polina with Gracie,Mirai and Courtney Hicks. Just a reminder, Polina is younger than Mariah and a few months younger than Bradie. She's a year older than Karen Chen. And in assessing her long-term potential, I'd group her with Chen--both have been sidelined by stubborn foot injuries.

Speaking of Gracie, I've been catching up on skating stuff--just have to say that triple flip of hers on Instagram was just lovely.

I just don't see Polina as a contender anymore. She's skated how many times over the last 3 seasons? Once at Nationals and even that was just the SP. Her body has changed so much and for her to have fixed her weaknesess would have taken continuous work over the last 3 years which she's spent away from the ice. Once she hit college she really didn't have the hunger anymore but that's alright she had a nice but brief career that could have been so much more.

andromache · Feb 4, 2019

Jammers said:
I just don't see Polina as a contender anymore. She's skated how many times over the last 3 seasons? Once at Nationals and even that was just the SP. Her body has changed so much and for her to have fixed her weaknesess would have taken continuous work over the last 3 years which she's spent away from the ice. Once she hit college she really didn't have the hunger anymore but that's alright she had a nice but brief career that could have been so much more.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I think she could be a fine "second-tier" US lady - Challengers, a single GP event, top ten or 6 at Nationals - but I don't envision her being in contention for Worlds or Olympics teams. Even if she is able to get back to her 2016 form, those URs are still going to ding her - and I suspect that her URs would be much worse than ever after body changes and so much time off.

If she had stayed healthy, made a coaching change after 2016 Worlds and stuck with skating/training full-time, she would probably be the US #1 right now. She had grit.

Mathman · Feb 4, 2019

klutzy said:
I'm with Andromache in that I wish Alysa Liu hadn't won for her sake.

I kind of disagree. You compete to win. In sports it is always better to win than to finish second. (Just ask the Los Angeles Rams.

)

No one can predict the future, but I doubt that, ten years from now, Alysa will be kicking herself saying, darn! if only I had fallen on my triple Axel back in 2019, I would have had a better overall career and a happier life.

sheetz · Feb 4, 2019

In sponsorship news:

Bradie recently announced a sponsorship agreement with Zebra Technologies.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtBe1FnlT2P/

Karen just announced a partnership with SoCal Toyota.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtZGGiIgyqG/

Mathman · Feb 4, 2019

sheetz said:
In sponsorship news:

Bradie recently announced a sponsorship agreement with Zebra Technologies.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtBe1FnlT2P/

And Zebra's stock price just rose three-quarters of a percent following the announcement. :yes:

ice coverage · Feb 4, 2019

Jammers said:
... Once she hit college she really didn't have the hunger anymore ...

No, what actually happened is that once Polina hit college, *injury* prevented her from training.

Good luck to Ting, Mariah, and Bradie at Four Continents.

chopinskate · Feb 4, 2019

Mathman said:
And Zebra's stock price just rose three-quarters of a percent following the announcement. :yes:

:yes:

skylark · Feb 4, 2019

Hevari said:
I just wanted you to say exactly what do you mean under the "reward skating technique"? Overscore in PCS skaters with bigger TES? Or what? Just because IJS itself has tools for revarding tecnnique called BV and GOE.

Okay, sorry for the delay in answering. I only just now looked at this thread again. I meant that for years I've been reading posts on the GS forum about how the US should push bigger jumps in girls at a younger age. And now we've gotten to that point. And some people aren't sure they're quite comfortable with that.

ribbit · Feb 4, 2019

Hevari said:
I just wanted you to say exactly what do you mean under the "reward skating technique"? Overscore in PCS skaters with bigger TES? Or what? Just because IJS itself has tools for revarding tecnnique called BV and GOE.

skylark said:
Okay, sorry for the delay in answering. I only just now looked at this thread again. I meant that for years I've been reading posts on the GS forum about how the US should push bigger jumps in girls at a younger age. And now we've gotten to that point. And some people aren't sure they're quite comfortable with that.

I'm obviously not the OP, but I don't think anyone is advocating for deliberately misusing IJS. I think the posters skylark mentions are referring to programs such as the modified version of IJS that USFS uses at its lower-level competitions. (I don't know what other federations do, and a conversation on those comparative lines would probably best be left to its own thread.) These modifications are clearly laid out in a published document every year; the latest document is here. The most relevant of these modifications is the bonus points that skaters receive for executing more difficult jumps than are strictly necessary at that level.

If I understand correctly, those bonuses are applied by the technical controller, not the judges. So skaters get the feedback of actual judges' scores, without any mandated overscoring or manipulation of BV, GOE, or PCS criteria. But their final placements are affected by the bonuses added to those scores, so they have an incentive to master and perform more difficult technical content.

If it were up to me, I might give the full bonus only to qualifying fully-rotated jumps, and a smaller bonus to under-rotated jumps, to create a stronger incentive to get the technique right. But more experienced posters might have strong counter-arguments for continuing to give the full bonus to under-rotated as well as fully-rotated jumps.

Apologies for drifting :eek:

topic:

klutzy · Feb 4, 2019

Polina skated multiple times during the Olympic season--Vacaville, Glacier Falls, Rostelecomm and Nationals. Her big issue is that she didn't have her toe jumps because of the injury, but it was a determined attempt at a comeback. I don't think it was a case of no longer having the fire to skate because she was in college.

I do agree that the combination of injury and growth could limit a successful comeback, but she says she intends to try and the girl has grit. It may be, even she gets her technique back, that the uptick in technical difficulty will make her a noncontender.

Damn shame she was injured before being able to go to Worlds. She was skating well--it would have been nice for her to have the opportunity to skate in Boston.

2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

frida80

MarinHondas

frida80

MarinHondas

frida80

Hevari

Drivers start your engines!

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

Hevari

Drivers start your engines!

klutzy

Jammers

andromache

Mathman

sheetz

Mathman

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

chopinskate

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

ribbit

klutzy

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