Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

andromache · May 24, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
From experience I'm going to disagree with your points of only a certain class can afford and also concentration of talent in individual geographic areas. This just isn't the case.

You obviously have way more experience than I do, but I personally find it unlikely that the majority of US families can afford figure skating training above basic skills classes, let alone at the level necessary to learn and maintain triple jumps.

Also, don't misunderstand me re: my geographic point. Potentially talented skaters in the US are so widespread all over the country that geographical access to elite-level anything is just more complicated than in Russia (St. Petersburg or Moscow, pick one) or Japan (a much smaller and more urban country). Talent can come from anywhere, but they usually have to move somewhere to train; then if that training situation doesn't work out, they might need to relocate several states away.

ETA: Dinh Tran is an amazing exception, not the rule, as far as finances go.

Spirals for Miles · May 24, 2018

dippy said:
Wow can someone send this to educate Christine Brennan please? What an amazing post!

Just find me her email

Bluediamonds09 · May 24, 2018

The problem in the US isn’t a lack of talent. It’s a lack of consistency!!!

We have loads of talented skaters. But 90% get on the ice for a competition and just choke.

Spirals for Miles · May 24, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
Just find me her email

I found it !
Sorely tempted to send it :rofl:

chopinskate · May 24, 2018

Careful, don't get blocked.

Though if you do, that'd tell you something about something.

macy · May 24, 2018

what if clubs (probably bigger ones, such as DSC, colorado springs or LA based clubs for example) began doing fundraising specifically for this purpose if you show promising talent and do well in competition? i know many clubs such as mine would just not be able to afford this, but maybe these bigger training bases might have some success? being that there are several cities all over the country that have great coaches and many elite skaters, if they have this extra money i think it would be more appealing to potential elite skaters to train there and have that opportunity. then the funding (or some of it) would come directly from the club and not USFSA. i think this would encourage younger up and coming skaters to begin getting higher level/international experience if they can start out with some extra money. it would add an extra cushion on top of what USFSA might give them, although i think it would be difficult to see success raising the money for this. you would have to not only reach out to the skating community but also to the public, who i generally don't really think would care much. just an idea.

concorde · May 24, 2018

jf12 said:
There are a lot of kids who have a lot of talent and drive but not a lot of money who get helped out with ice time by their skating club, or get coaching for free or heavily discounted by coaches who really believe in them.

Really? Please tell.

Skater Boy · May 24, 2018

Other than pairs USA is looking great for talent. I would say they are talented in pairs but the Knerims have really not developed as expected - I was thinking a medal by now at worlds instead they have gone in reverse and are on the edge of not even making the free skate - at worlds if Canada had not imploded the Americans could h ave been in big big trouble. In men they have Nathan and Vincent. Brown was the golden boy but has fallen from grace. I still think his skating his beautiful. We will see how Nathan handles school, fame and skating. Jason needs a quad but by now he still doesn't have one.

In dance there are tonnes of good skating teams regardless if the Shibs return. Hubbell and Donahue and Chock and Bates and who ever survives to win bronze are all great teams capable of medalling at worlds

Ladies well there is always potential with Gracie Gold but that ship may have sailed; if she is plannign a return well we'll see. Even if Ashley doesnt skate on like that Titanic song you have the bread and butter the Rachel Flatt, the n ew Polina E. in Bradie Tennell. She is still developing and could be the new Kaetlyn Osmond. There are other ladies with huge potential Mirai and Karen both are capable of medalling if they got their acts together.

Potential yes but we'll see how far it goes.

el henry · May 24, 2018

As has been said before, there are skaters from truly low-income families that prove the exception, like Dinh Tran. Tonya Harding. Rohene Ward. They are few and far between.

If “wealthy” is defined as funding skating without sacrifices, then I would imagine the majority of families are not wealthy. Those families that are not wealthy need to find additional income to fund their skater, because skating is an expensive sport.

But “not wealthy” does NOT equal “low income”. As in living in a rented apartment, so there is nothing to mortgage. As in income from sporadic jobs, disability checks or other kinds of assistance, and no skills to find any reliable job, let alone many. As in no income and no financial support from an absent parent. As in no transportation to find any job, let alone a second one. As in incarcerated parents.

Children from those families cannot choose to skate, even if they thought of it as an option. And we are kidding ourselves if we think skating is open to them.

I don’t know the answer. Maybe there isn’t one :confused2:

Spirals for Miles · May 24, 2018

I don't want Bradie to be the next Kaetlyn, I want her to be the first Bradie

I think el henry is spot on

Nimyue · May 24, 2018

Ic3Rabbit said:
Go read about people like Jeremy Abbott, Adam Rippon, and so many other skaters that their parents (just as mine did) have to take out several mortgages on homes and work multiple jobs to keep their skater going.

This is exactly my point. Not many people would do that. Even if we did do that, there is no way I could afford to support an elite skater. For starters, I have another child, and making us all suffer for one kid doesn't sit well with me. My SO and I have already discussed it. There is no way we're putting ourselves in financial peril over one child in figure skating. Not only is it an expensive sport, but it's not a sport that really invests in your child. Going all in on a team sport, for one is cheaper, and for another could set your child up financially for life. Even if it's a simple college scholarship, which is not an option for figure skating. The US just can't compete with countries who financially assist figure skaters.

jf12 · May 24, 2018

concorde said:
Really? Please tell.

I know of a couple firsthand only because it's one of my coaches that's giving the discounted/free lessons - they tend to fit them in for extra lessons whenever they have a cancellation or a spot in the schedule. Both are boys - one could do an axel in rentals one of the first few times he stepped on the ice. Our club also has a formal scholarship program for competitive skaters that awards based on a combination of financial need and potential - supported by everyone's fees and bigger amounts from some members who are very wealthy. The recipients etc aren't really publicized so there are very likely more examples in our club that I don't know about.

concorde · May 24, 2018

jf12 said:
I know of a couple firsthand only because it's one of my coaches that's giving the discounted/free lessons - they tend to fit them in for extra lessons whenever they have a cancellation or a spot in the schedule. Both are boys - one could do an axel in rentals one of the first few times he stepped on the ice. Our club also has a formal scholarship program for competitive skaters that awards based on a combination of financial need and potential - supported by everyone's fees and bigger amounts from some members who are very wealthy. The recipients etc aren't really publicized so there are very likely more examples in our club that I don't know about.

Still sounds like the parents are paying the bulk of the training cost.

At the Jump On It camp, I sat through the USFS financial assistance program for the parents. Most of us were pretty frustrated by what we heard. Scholastic scholarships are based on merit only, parent finances do not come into play. If your child were to qualify based on skating skills (typically top 6 at Nationals), the family's finances are evaluated. And the average scholarship (if you qualify) sounded like it was $3k. We were all scratching our heads since that was a drop in the bucket to what we were spending.

The USFS speaker pointed out that awhile back, one wealthy spectator at Nationals liked what they saw and chose to pay all of the lucky skater's training costs for the year. USFS was quick to point out that was the exception, not the norm.

I think there is alot of talent in the pipeline. But families are huge facing training costs and kids are getting burnt out trying to keep up these crazy training schedules. How long are kids willing to go to be at 6pm and get up at 4am so they can skate? That's what some kids at the Jump on It camp were doing.

narcissa · May 24, 2018

I agree, it's ridiculous to argue that skaters are not on average more well off than the median American.

Dinh Tran is not from a rich family by any means, but the area that he lives is still one of the most expensive cities to live in the country, even though the article doesn't make it sound nice (and it isn't a pretty place, but it's by no means Compton or Detroit, no offense to those areas, and it's really a relatively safe place to go outside at any hour. The article is a huge exaggeration). The rink he skates at looks quite nice and well-maintained, and there are Olympic skaters who skate there on a regular basis.

In poorer areas there aren't even RINKS. And like el henry said, the fact that you even have a house you can mortgage, or extra cars to sell a la Johnny Weir, means you are privileged. No one is saying that all skaters have to come from the Kennedy or the Gates families, lol, but it's just weird to not admit that even living in an area with well-maintained rinks and real skating coaches means you're probably more well off than 50% of American families...

oatmella · May 24, 2018

Nathan has said he wouldn't have been able to get to where he is now without financial help beyond what his family could afford: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...es-usa-hopes-olympic-skating-gold/1089579001/

It has been about 15 years since a little boy growing up in Salt Lake City, the youngest of five children, decided he wanted to figure skate. His family didn’t have the money to buy him skates of his own, so he wore his older sister’s white hand-me-downs.

When he outgrew them, the boy’s father had an idea. He had heard of a foundation being run by three-time national champion and two-time U.S. Olympian Michael Weiss that gave money to up-and-coming skaters. The man’s son was too young to apply for any of Weiss’ scholarships, but Weiss said he’d help out anyway, giving the family $200 to pay for the boy’s first pair of skates.

Over the next 10 years, as the boy started showing remarkable progress, Weiss’ foundation kept sending money to help keep him in the sport, about $75,000 in all.

It made sense. Figure skating and Nathan Chen were not going to part ways anytime soon.

Retelling this story after winning his second consecutive U.S. figure skating national championship last month, Chen, 18, couldn’t help but smile.

“Michael gave me money to kick-start my young career,” Chen said. “Honestly, without that, it would be impossible for me to get to where I am now.”

georgia · May 24, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
They're important, but the risk of doing multiple quads can result not only in memorable performances, but also total meltdowns. Vincent won a SP small medal at Worlds but finished 19th in the LP. Nathan Chen won the LP at the Olympics after finishing 17th in the SP. Adam and Jason haven't won small medals, but they also haven't finished outside the top 10 in either segment at Worlds or Olympics in the last quad. Their steady performances in big events helped the US earn World/Olympic spots and even Team medals. If someone had the quads and the consistency, I think he would always be favored. But I think the results in the last few years have sort of validated the idea that the team sent to big events needs a mix of individual medal contenders and skaters who can earn top 10 placements with consistency and artistry.

But Nathan had a chance to be on the top three if not the top, something both Adam and Jason never did!

el henry · May 24, 2018

georgia said:
But Nathan had a chance to be on the top three if not the top, something both Adam and Jason never did!

I don’t understand; the OP, if I am understanding her correctly, says we should send a team consisting of *both* high risk high reward skaters, like Nathan and potentially Vincent, and skaters who finish consistently in the top ten, which Jason and Adam have done over a course of years.

I would be unhappy with a team of nothing but high risk, high reward skaters, as I don’t see it as smart strategy, unless of course you can only send one skater:scratch3:

oatmella · May 24, 2018

I can see the need and value for a balance of skaters - as shown at this year's worlds. Max's placement ensured three spots for the US men at next year's worlds.

Also if Jason didn't place as high as he did at 2017 worlds - the US men wouldn't have had three spots at the Olympics.

concorde · May 24, 2018

oatmella said:
Nathan has said he wouldn't have been able to get to where he is now without financial help beyond what his family could afford: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...es-usa-hopes-olympic-skating-gold/1089579001/

It has been about 15 years since a little boy growing up in Salt Lake City, the youngest of five children, decided he wanted to figure skate. His family didn’t have the money to buy him skates of his own, so he wore his older sister’s white hand-me-downs.

When he outgrew them, the boy’s father had an idea. He had heard of a foundation being run by three-time national champion and two-time U.S. Olympian Michael Weiss that gave money to up-and-coming skaters. The man’s son was too young to apply for any of Weiss’ scholarships, but Weiss said he’d help out anyway, giving the family $200 to pay for the boy’s first pair of skates.

Over the next 10 years, as the boy started showing remarkable progress, Weiss’ foundation kept sending money to help keep him in the sport, about $75,000 in all.

It made sense. Figure skating and Nathan Chen were not going to part ways anytime soon.

Retelling this story after winning his second consecutive U.S. figure skating national championship last month, Chen, 18, couldn’t help but smile.

“Michael gave me money to kick-start my young career,” Chen said. “Honestly, without that, it would be impossible for me to get to where I am now.”

All very true.

The Michael Weiss foundation is no longer giving out money. I asked them directly. To the best of my knowledge, there are no similar organizations in operation. If Nathan were 10 years younger, my guess he would not have had those doors opened for him.

andromache · May 24, 2018

concorde said:
The Michael Weiss foundation is no longer giving out money. I asked them directly. To the best of my knowledge, there are no similar organizations in operation. If Nathan were 10 years younger, my guess he would not have had those doors opened for him.

Omg that really sucks. What a bummer. I can only imagine that the foundation stopped being able to raise enough money?

I'm sure that American disinterest in skating has hurt the ability to raise money for skaters. Bless Figure Skating in Harlem and all those who support it, seriously. Its mission might not be to support elite skating, but what it does accomplish is probably just as important overall.

I guess we can keep our fingers crossed for all of us Golden Skate millionaires and future millionaires to use our millions to support young, promising skaters one day.

Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

andromache

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

Bluediamonds09

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

chopinskate

macy

concorde

Skater Boy

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

Nimyue

jf12

concorde

narcissa

oatmella

陈巍

georgia

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

oatmella

陈巍

concorde

andromache

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