The Difference Between Jumps

I don't skate, but I wonder why just a skater having a jump (or not having a jump) suddenly makes them uncompetitive? Like for ladies, having a consistent 3Lz-3T vs 3T-3T combination matters so much in base value (and thus in the overall result), or for men, having the 4Lo, 4F, and 4Lz instead of just the toe or sal (at least in previous seasons). It just seems so minuscule when it comes down to being able to stick a landing vs an underrotation or a fall

Well, somebody like Gabby Daleman has been using her 3T-3T for ages since she‘s so good at it that her high GOE almost makes up for the difference in BV and it‘s so stable for her. But in general, yes there is a difference in which jump combinations you have and it‘s a great deal. It will be even more so in the future.

Like, take a look at the Olympic Games. Alina Zagitova - the Champion, beat Silver Medalist Evgenia Medvedeva for about one and a half points. Her combo is 3Lz-3Lo which she is the only current senior lady to perform. This was basically the dealbreaker and with a less difficult (e.g. 3F-3T like Medvedeva did) she probably would have lost.

In some sense, I agree with you. I’d rather see a less difficult combo or a less difficult jump but beautifully done than a more difficult one with underrotations or falls. And now there are new rules in the distribution of GOE so theoretically a fall should mean that you automatically lose more points than before. (I say theoretically because we haven‘t seen the new system yet and it‘s always on the judges to use it correctly, so...) But at the same time, the sport is pushing forward and I think this is quite right. I‘m personally not so fond of having quads in ladies skating because we‘ve seen what it did to men‘s and well, I‘m not a fan of it. But as it has always been, people, athletes, skaters, they want to win. So they naturally try more difficult combinations to get them more points. 3Lz-3T is more difficult than 3T-3T and 3Lz-3Lo is more difficult than both of them. Like Zagitova with the 3Lz-3Lo who learned it because she knew it was her only way to challenge Medvedeva who had been on the top for straight two seasons. Now Bradie Tennell is doing it, too. Or Medvedeva who kind of started this with her backloading and tanos. Now in juniors we have Alexandra Trusova who‘s pushing it with her quads. So, if you don‘t go along, if you don‘t develop, you‘ll be left out hence uncompetitive. There are a few exceptions like Carolina Kostner who doesn‘t have the most difficult BV at all but manages to still compete with the elite by her high PCS and good GOEs if she lands her jumps. But essentially, to be at the top you need to be technically advanced, too.

^^ appreciate the analysis. I hope Bradie realizes great success this season with her 3Lz -3Lp. I admired Polina's 3 Lz-3T in 2016 and I understand why Alina came away with Olympic gold last season tho her performance was, in my view, more adrenaline charged than joyful. So, onward and upward and, regardless of jump difficulty, I hope to see a bit of finesse become more a part of the equation.

Sometimes it is kind of psychological too, this is the skater who can do this cool (new) thing (4Lz, Lz-Lo, 3A, 4 quads, backload, tano everything), so the perception of them as a competitor changes and this is also reflected in the PCS.

In ladies, the point difference between placements is unit that large either. If someone has a consistent 3Lz-3T it means they can usually do a 3Lz twice in FS and once in FS. ( Though, if a skater has a consistent 3F-3T and a solo 3Lz then the difference is indeed miniscule) Those points add up and can account for a higher placement.

In men's, under old rules, having 2 different quads meant you could eliminate a 2A. You didn't exchange a triple for a quad, you exchanged a double for a quad. Andyou could do 2 quads in SP. And that makes for a huge point difference between someone with 1 quad and someone with 2.

New rules in Men's eliminate the need for 2A for someone who has all triples and 1 quad which they can do in combination. But new repetition will force men to learn more quads if they want to get an upper hand over the competition, because they can't repeat as much the ones they already have. Also, the new values and GOE system makes differences between quads greater, someone with a stable 4T and 4Lz will be more competitive than someone with 4T and 4S (unless his name is Hanyu, of course, but even he didn't stop at that). Actually, the lack of a good 3A might now be what harms a man's competitiveness as this is the highest-scored triple you can repeat in FS and a requirement in the SP.

Each jump has a different entry which is tied to the jumps difficulty. While this isn't universal, it is generally agreed that the jumps in order of difficulty are toe, sal, loop, flip, lutz, axel. The more rotations a jump has, the more difficult it is. As a result, the lutz is worth more points than a toe, so 3Lz-3T is worth more than 3T-3T, unless your 3T-3T is spectacular and makes up the difference in GOE as mentioned above. More points on an element = more competitive. In many cases, the system is built to reward trying harder elements, so the programs aren't all simpler jumps. This is especially true with some of the quad jumps where a fall on the quad is work more than a clean triple in many cases. Basically, the system encourages difficulty over cleanliness.

The bizarre thing is, that this has led to some of the top skaters being unable to do some of the simpler jumps because they stop training them. The salchow defiantly gets the short end of the stick, unless you're talking quads.