ISU Communication No. 2474 - Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution and Program Components, Season 2022/23

[cl2]

"Changes of edge in between jumps in a combo will now incur a -1 to -2 GOE reduction."

If I understand the rules correctly, there is only an change of edges if there is a change from the inside edge to the outside edge and vice versa and not to a flat edge - at least that's the rule for spins. How is this for jumps?

If that is the case, I don't think this rule will have any real effect on the scoring and if anything will extend the time to score. And even with slow motion or stills it's often not clear to judge if the camera perspective is not perfect - even more so if it's not a huge event. I'm curious how that will be handled.

Just curious if anyone has a video example of a blatant edge change between jumps in a combination? I'm having a hard time thinking of a skater who intentionally does that as part of his/her technique.

I do recall, though, watching a video of a workshop by Brian Orser, in which he explained a technique of slightly flattening out the landing edge before loading for the second jump. However, that's not a change of edge; it's still the same edge but with different curvatures. The flattening and re-deepening aids in flow and power between jumps, a double power pull without the edge change, if you will.

Also, a reminder, GOE reduction does not involve video replay. It is the judges, not tech panel, who are responsible for GOE. Judges are typically very swift in entering their marks.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Good on the chart, but last year we saw a 4S scored as a 4Lz.
It was not a full blade assist on a pick jump it was plain and square a blade jump
Looks like one those things that will exist for everyone except someone

Where was this/do you have the protocol or skater?

A full blade takeoff/poor technique does not turn one type of jump into another (like people who derisively/erroneously think full blade assists on flips or lutzes suddenly turn them into a loop as if the jump mechanics are even remotely similar between a bladed flip/lutz and loop jump. Jumps are distinguished by things other than how the skater's blade/pick leaves the ice.

 

[4everchan]

Where was this/do you have the protocol or skater?

A full blade takeoff/poor technique does not turn one type of jump into another (like people who derisively/erroneously think full blade assists on flips or lutzes suddenly turn them into a loop as if the jump mechanics are even remotely similar between a bladed flip/lutz and loop jump. Jumps are distinguished by things other than how the skater's blade/pick leaves the ice.

exception : morisi's salchoeloop HAHA

 

[cl2]

Where was this/do you have the protocol or skater?

A full blade takeoff/poor technique does not turn one type of jump into another (like people who derisively/erroneously think full blade assists on flips or lutzes suddenly turn them into a loop as if the jump mechanics are even remotely similar between a bladed flip/lutz and loop jump. Jumps are distinguished by things other than how the skater's blade/pick leaves the ice.

That is not true, actually. I have seen instances were a jump that was set up as a Lutz was eventually called a loop by the tech panel. The error was that glaring.

 

[Joe Mendoza]

there are the rules, and there are the application of the rules.

the way I interpret this -

• the rules = what's on formal ISU Communication and Guidelines
• application of the rules = same politics

 

[McBibus]

exception : morisi's salchoeloop HAHA

right: it was a toeloop.
My bad memory

 

[macy]

Just curious if anyone has a video example of a blatant edge change between jumps in a combination? I'm having a hard time thinking of a skater who intentionally does that as part of his/her technique.

I do recall, though, watching a video of a workshop by Brian Orser, in which he explained a technique of slightly flattening out the landing edge before loading for the second jump. However, that's not a change of edge; it's still the same edge but with different curvatures. The flattening and re-deepening aids in flow and power between jumps, a double power pull without the edge change, if you will.

Also, a reminder, GOE reduction does not involve video replay. It is the judges, not tech panel, who are responsible for GOE. Judges are typically very swift in entering their marks.

watch her 4T combo. slight change of edge between jumps to an inside edge. this angle lets you see it better than others. unfortunately Valieva is notorious for this. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hSJTpzJj1M4

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That is not true, actually. I have seen instances were a jump that was set up as a Lutz was eventually called a loop by the tech panel. The error was that glaring.

Can you please provide evidence/protocols of these instances? Which competition(s)/skater(s) was this call made towards?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

exception : morisi's salchoeloop HAHA

Hah I knew people would bring up Morisi. Tbh, Morisi’s technique is distinguishable enough. Not every skater is obvious with their picking on the toe loop (definitely not Morisi!). It’s not good technique but he lifts his left foot off the ice before planting the toe in. It looks a lot like a salchow but to my earlier point, the mechanics of the jumps are still a toe loop even if the toe picking action should be clearer. As a judge I personally wouldn’t deduct worse than a -1 reduction for poor takeoff, and I certainly wouldn’t be giving him the “good takeoff” GOE bullet. But I don’t find it as egregious as others do (which let’s be honest, if he weren’t Eteri’s skater, not as many people would be criticizing it).

 

[Jadeice]

Also from the communication:
(Pending Congress decision)
Choreographic sequences: Definition of choreographic sequences: (pending congress decision) A Choreographic Sequence consists of at least two different movements like steps, turns, spirals, arabesques, spread eagles, Ina Bauers, hydroblading, any jumps with maximum of 2 revolutions, spins, etc.

Horrible. This and the further constraints on step sequence clusters are truly disappointing.
They're really bent on sucking out all creativity and variety out of programs and choreo, huh?
Instead of allowing for more freedom, they include more and more limitations... step sequences are already all looking the same, and soon choreo sequences will follow.

 

[jenaj]

I'm glad the ISU finally decided to do something about prerotations (although I would prefer a BV reduction instead of GOE). It shows they finally admitted that this issue has to be adressed. I'm worried, however, that this new rule is not going to be used properly and it will lead to double standards.

BTW: Did they give a precise definition of what an "excessive rotation on the ice" is?

How will the judges (not the technical panels) be able to judge this without slo-mo? Or will everything be slowed down even more while the jumps are scrutinized?

 

[cl2]

Can you please provide evidence/protocols of these instances? Which competition(s)/skater(s) was this call made towards?

It was at a regionals competition, some time ago. In any case, you can keep a lookout for this kind of calls in future.

 

[AxelLover]

How will the judges (not the technical panels) be able to judge this without slo-mo? Or will everything be slowed down even more while the jumps are scrutinized?

Well, I was hoping the judges would be shown slow-mo shots of the take-offs. But that's probably not going to happen.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It was at a regionals competition, some time ago. In any case, you can keep a lookout for this kind of calls in future.

Is there a video of the skater doing the jump or the protocol? Curious to see what it looked like.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, I was hoping the judges would be shown slow-mo shots of the take-offs. But that's probably not going to happen.

That's the crazy part of this. If it's not in slow motion how the heck would the judge be able to discern how much GOE to take off? Unless they went into the competition with a pre-conceived notion of who was prone to PRing/full blading (which is just unfair to go into a competition ready to deduct a skater for something they might have fixed in training or execute better on the day).

 

[gkelly]

That's the crazy part of this. If it's not in slow motion how the heck would the judge be able to discern how much GOE to take off?

Based on how bad it looks in real time?

Not an exact science, but not totally random or predetermined either.

 

[Lipinski boy]

does the ISU post all these communications on their official site? I’m very curious to see what will be changed until the start of the next season, particularly age eligibility.

 

[AxelLover]

Based on how bad it looks in real time?

Not an exact science, but not totally random or predetermined either.

The problem is that prerotations are almost impossible to perceive in real time.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

The problem is that prerotations are almost impossible to perceive in real time.

Really really excessive prerotation is though (ex. Shoma's 4F). So the truly bad technique should get marked, but the questionable technique with some extra prerotation won't because it's not obvious.

 

[gkelly]

does the ISU post all these communications on their official site? I’m very curious to see what will be changed until the start of the next season, particularly age eligibility.

ISU Communications - International Skating Union

The International Skating Union is the international sport federation administering Ice Skating sports throughout the world.

isu.org

That's where ISU Communications will be posted. Anything that hasn't been voted on yet won't be there until after the ISU Congress.

You can also download the rulebook from the "Special Regulations and Rules" link at the bottom of the page under Figure Skating (or Synchronized Skating for those rules). That should be updated after the Congress as well.