Daniil Gleikhengauz's programs

BillNeal · Oct 19, 2018

colormyworld240 said:
This is a blanket statement and is unfair. This is true for some of this programs this season - Alina's POTO, Alena's R&J. POTO is especially bad IMO. However, not all his programs have been like that. He did well last year with the juniors, especially Tarakanova's asylum SP, Alena's tango SP and lyrical FS. Shcherbakova's SP this season also showcases her strengths well, as do both of Sashas programs. None of those had tacky sound effects, or crazy cuts and had clear concepts that suited the individuals. And if I recall correctly, you yourself have commented on Alina's DQ being choreographed well in the past and Sasha's this season (?). He's had some off choreography; he's a developing choreographer who's amongst the youngest, obviously he's not going to hit with every program. No choreographer does. It sucks that some skaters are stuck with the worse programs, like the olympic champion, but it's ridiculous to make a generalization like that off a few bad programs. Or if you're going to say that about ALL his programs, at least keep it in the context of your opinion instead of applying it to how it should be judged ie. the correct and only opinion, as there is subjectivity in choreography.

It's not just a few bad programs like Alina's POTO and Alena's R&J. There are other programs this season, that show this trend of lacklustre and incoherent choreography. Shcherbakova's Rondo Capriccioso has no relation to the music or the audience. This is an iconic violin piece and the program could be so much more. It looks like a series of rehearsed moves with little regard to musicality and lack of soul. My statements apply to this program also. I mentioned that Sasha's FS has a decent step sequence that allows her to display good musicality but I also said that the middle third is just a backdrop to do her two combos, once again elements with no relation to the singer that suddenly comes on for that section. His SP's for the juniors are generally better conceptually. Alina's DQ is a lot better than most of the free skates he hast put out this season; yes, he is a developing choreographer but has regressed and his students could benefit from a second set of eyes, a co-choreographer.

ancientpeas · Oct 19, 2018

I have to admit that so far I am not the biggest fan. I loathe V.O. and it doesn't matter who or why. Music cuts are hard. I think if I went through my comments from worlds last year I moaned about music cuts a lot. It's not exclusively one choreographers issue. I would say that good music cuts are actually a rarity (V/M music cut from 5 women into purple rain in their SD 2017 is one I really noticed- to my ear it is seemless) . I'd settle for not glaring ones to be honest.

However, lets not make blanket statements about his entire body of work. If all you want to say is "urg I hate it! There is nothing good about it!" or "wow, best ever, everything he does is magic" then that's not really a debate. You think what you think and aren't interested in others opinions and that does not make for a good conversation.

I think Daniil (I love the spelling of that.. and I'm never going to get it right) is young and is showing promise and will, I think, become a very good choreographer over time.

Mathman · Oct 19, 2018

To each his own, I guess.To me, Alina Zagitova's Phantom program is wonderful. As it gets more mileage, Alina will improve her pacing and breathing. But on the other hand, the frenetic dash of it all has it's own delight, to me.

noidont · Oct 19, 2018

Those programs are messes this year. I actually like Alina's POTO and I'm growing to accept her Carmen, but the three jgp skaters are getting much worse programs than the three jgp skaters last year for sure.
People talk about Danil like he is the sole responsible person for these programs, whereas I believe he's responsible only for a small part of it, like picking the music and setting certain moves to music, because these programs look no different from early Eteri choreographed programs from Medvedeva's junior days. Eteri's programs are essentially assembly projects.

Alina is an amazing skater and an Olympic gold medalist who hasn't worked with a choreographer other than Danil G. Seems about time? Of the current choreographers my own favorite is Tom Dickson but he doesn't seem to get much work these days.

Alexz · Oct 19, 2018

Guys, I think Caro should give Daniil a call and do her SP with him. Most definitely.

Imagine how some of the most successful Gleikhengauz's programs would look on Costner? Especially those lyrical (and less balletic) ones.

Lets see how it goes. :handw:

Alexz · Oct 19, 2018

BTW. While we at it I propose a challenge!

I challenge you to try to "imaginery" apply some of the Daniil's choreography to some of you favorites skaters or skaters from your country. (Ignore the technical side of jumps, but include all the transition in or out of jumps and etc).

For instance, I humbly think that Sasha's 5th Element would look good on Ashley Wagner.

Give us your options! :popcorn:

ancientpeas · Oct 19, 2018

Mathman said:
To each his own, I guess.To me, Alina Zagitova's Phantom program is wonderful. As it gets more mileage, Alina will improve her pacing and breathing. But on the other hand, the frenetic dash of it all has it's own delight, to me.

Except that those two things can never go together in my mind: POTO and wonderful. We all have our bias and this is one of mine. That and a pretty much feral distaste for man buns.

ancientpeas · Oct 19, 2018

noidont said:
Those programs are messes this year. I actually like Alina's POTO and I'm growing to accept her Carmen, but the three jgp skaters are getting much worse programs than the three jgp skaters last year for sure.
People talk about Danil like he is the sole responsible person for these programs, whereas I believe he's responsible only for a small part of it, like picking the music and setting certain moves to music, because these programs look no different from early Eteri choreographed programs from Medvedeva's junior days. Eteri's programs are essentially assembly projects.

Alina is an amazing skater and an Olympic gold medalist who hasn't worked with a choreographer other than Danil G. Seems about time? Of the current choreographers my own favorite is Tom Dickson but he doesn't seem to get much work these days.

I get what you are saying but let's face it: She coaches them to succeed and her method is working. It's smart and it works as the JGP season has shown so far.

My thing about her programs (and I've said it before..moriel and I have debated it) is that I wish they gave her something fresh and exciting and young and vibrant because I think she can do that but instead they gave her two of the warhorsiest warhorses. Why two of them? Maybe Carmen for the long but something funky and fresh for the short?

ancientpeas · Oct 19, 2018

Alexz said:
Guys, I think Caro should give Daniil a call and do her SP with him. Most definitely.

Imagine how some of the most successful Gleikhengauz's programs would look on Costner? Especially those lyrical (and less balletic) ones.

Lets see how it goes. :handw:

I think Carolina pretty much classes up the joint where ever she goes so.. I'm sure Daniil would give her a good program. I think he is young and learning. Working with Kostner or Satoko would be excellent experience for him I think and I'm sure both ladies would learn a lot of from working with him. It's all growth, it's all education if you allow it to be. An open mind is open. A closed mind is closed.

rikaquegira · Oct 19, 2018

I definitely agree Eteri camp needs another choreographer, I don’t know who would be a good addition though.

What I love about Daniil is that he seems to connect with the skaters and care for them. There has been more than one occasion where he was the friendly figure and I think that’s really important, to give that kind of support to these ladies.

I have my fair share of criticism to Daniil’s programs but one thing we have to remind ourselves is that what the Russians are doing is kind of a new style, some people will love it, some people will hate it. The “busy” programs are at this point a Russian trademark imo. I like it when it’s well conceptualised and executed. Kostornaya comes to mind.

Sometimes Daniil’s programs can feel a bit too cluttered, rushed and disconnected, specially when the music cuts are no good. Alina’s POTO is an example of that imo.

But Daniil has gifted us some nice programs: Alina’s Don Quixote, Kostornaya’s FS last season, the Big Spender was also very well choreographed wether appropriate or not, the choreography was good!
So, he’s not THE best choreographer and he’s not among the greatest imo, he’s kind of a hit or miss. But he also has a very difficult job and he tries his best.

As I mentioned in the beginning, I’d love seeing someone else helping out the team with choreography and, you know, SS, expression, performance... I think that would be good for everybody, including Daniil.

IceBallerina · Oct 19, 2018

cell said:
Unpopular opinion, but Kostornaia's music cuts for R&J are not horrible... yes, there are voiceovers, yes, there are 3 different movie soundtracks, but she makes it work!

Well, I think Alena could skate to anything and make it beautiful.

Daniil, like any choreographer, can have masterpieces and programs that fall short. The problem with debating about this is “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Choreography is art and art it subjectective. Someone may find Alina’s Carmen messy, even when I find it beautiful. That’s just how it is. There’s no right or wrong opinion in this.

Personally I think Shae-Lynn Bourne is the best choreographer right now. Between Wakaba’s bond program and Hanyu’s long programs… she can produce such beautiful programs. I’d love to see some of Eteri’s skaters work with her, especially Sasha and Alina.

rikaquegira · Oct 19, 2018

IceBallerina said:
Well, I think Alena could skate to anything and make it beautiful.

Daniil, like any choreographer, can have masterpieces and programs that fall short. The problem with debating about this is “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Choreography is art and art it subjectective. Someone may find Alina’s Carmen messy, even when I find it beautiful. That’s just how it is. There’s no right or wrong opinion in this.

I totally agree!!
There are some really awful programs(to my eyes) that other people consider “beautiful” and “emotional” and whatever, and I’m like “whaaaaat??? where??? how????” [emoji23]
So, yeah, in the end of the day it is all a matter of taste.

moriel · Oct 19, 2018

ancientpeas said:
I think Carolina pretty much classes up the joint where ever she goes so.. I'm sure Daniil would give her a good program. I think he is young and learning. Working with Kostner or Satoko would be excellent experience for him I think and I'm sure both ladies would learn a lot of from working with him. It's all growth, it's all education if you allow it to be. An open mind is open. A closed mind is closed.

Yep, it would be interesting to see him work with different skaters, because right now he is basically "team eteri" choreographer.
Working with a top skater from another team would be a fun experience and may produce nice results.

People will bash me, but after AK, i kinda wish Zhenya had kept him as choreographer. It would be quite interesting.

colormyworld240 · Oct 19, 2018

BillNeal said:
It's not just a few bad programs like Alina's POTO and Alena's R&J. There are other programs this season, that show this trend of lacklustre and incoherent choreography. Shcherbakova's Rondo Capriccioso has no relation to the music or the audience. This is an iconic violin piece and the program could be so much more. It looks like a series of rehearsed moves with little regard to musicality and lack of soul. My statements apply to this program also. I mentioned that Sasha's FS has a decent step sequence that allows her to display good musicality but I also said that the middle third is just a backdrop to do her two combos, once again elements with no relation to the singer that suddenly comes on for that section. His SP's for the juniors are generally better conceptually. Alina's DQ is a lot better than most of the free skates he hast put out this season; yes, he is a developing choreographer but has regressed and his students could benefit from a second set of eyes, a co-choreographer.

Okay, so you also don't like Anna's FS, that's fine. But that makes 3. And you do like parts of other programs, and dislike some parts. That's quite normal, most people feel that way about any given program. And you say his SPs are better conceptually, and you liked Alina's DQ. So how can you generalize that his music cuts are awful and his choreography has no concept, when even you clearly appreciate some of his programs, parts of his programs. What you mean is you don't like some of his programs, and you don't have to. Not many people appreciate every single program from a single choreographer. I don't think he's regressed, it's just a few poor programs in the (hopefully) very early stages of his career. If I understand correctly, this is only his second or third full season of choreographing; there isn't anything to regress from. It's a process for him, like it is for everyone else. I think especially POTO just threw everyone off because it's the olympic champion and it's VERY controversial and bad, imo. But it's blown out of proportion; just because he's choreographing for talented skaters doesn't mean that all his programs have to be amazing; he's still new and doing quite well for having so little experience. As for the use of other choreographers, I'd personally like to see them work with other people, I think it's always beneficial to have different approaches and perspectives, but that's the decision of the group and the skaters obviously chose the group for a reason.

ancientpeas · Oct 19, 2018

moriel said:
Yep, it would be interesting to see him work with different skaters, because right now he is basically "team eteri" choreographer.
Working with a top skater from another team would be a fun experience and may produce nice results.

People will bash me, but after AK, i kinda wish Zhenya had kept him as choreographer. It would be quite interesting.

I think one of the gifts Eteri gives Daniil is the compete dedication of those doing his programs. Those ladies are focused and disciplined and driven and that would be any choreographer dream. Evgenia, in particular, always seemed all in no matter what to the content of what she was skating. When you consider someone like Rohene who will take his name off a program if the skater changes any part of it I'm sure that is something Daniil does not have to worry about. I'm sure those ladies skate what they are given, as well as they can and that has to be nice to not have to fight for artistic control from your student. However, at a certain age, they are going to want input and they are going to have opinions. I'm sure it can be challenging.

There is no way of knowing what the future holds. Daniil may end up working with Evgenia again. People mend fences and time heals. Maybe in a few years things will be better btw Evgenia and Eteri's group. I hope so. She spent most of her life there.

IceBallerina · Oct 19, 2018

ancientpeas said:
I think one of the gifts Eteri gives Daniil is the compete dedication of those doing his programs. Those ladies are focused and disciplined and driven and that would be any choreographer dream. Evgenia, in particular, always seemed all in no matter what to the content of what she was skating. When you consider someone like Rohene who will take his name off a program if the skater changes any part of it I'm sure that is something Daniil does not have to worry about. I'm sure those ladies skate what they are given, as well as they can and that has to be nice to not have to fight for artistic control from your student. However, at a certain age, they are going to want input and they are going to have opinions. I'm sure it can be challenging.

There is no way of knowing what the future holds. Daniil may end up working with Evgenia again. People mend fences and time heals. Maybe in a few years things will be better btw Evgenia and Eteri's group. I hope so. She spent most of her life there.

I know this probably will never happen, but I like the idea of choreographers working together. I’d love to see Daniil and David come together to make a program for Zhenya, I believe it would be gorgeous. When you have two different perspectives, certain nuances of the program can be brought out and the entirety of the program can be polished better. Just a thought.

ankifeather · Oct 19, 2018

moriel said:
Just to remind you people how young Daniil actually is, grabbed coaches and choreographers of the Olympic Medalists.
So whenever we bash him, we have to remember he is still a junior.

When it comes to artistic creativity I don't think age has a direct relationship. You either have the vision or you don't, it is not something that necessarily grows with experience. If anything, I think some of the older established choreographer are running out of ideas - some really only have a set of styles that are successful for one or two specific skaters, and end up doing a disservice to other skaters by trying to stick them into those styles that don't necessarily work for them. Compare that to say Shae-Lynn, who is still relatively new on the choreographer scene, but I find is excellent at adapting to different skaters.

In that case I actually think Daniil is doing a decent job of trying to develop different styles of each girl - like I don't find Sasha's program similar to Alena or Alina's program. Not every single one of them may be mind-blowing pieces, but for the most part I think suits the girl so I don't think he is doing a particular disservice to any of them.

Also be careful of what you wish for - remember when everyone complained about Averbukh's program for Zhenya and now she changes to Wilson and ...you know what everyone's complaint is now again.

rikaquegira · Oct 19, 2018

ankifeather said:
Also be careful of what you wish for - remember when everyone complained about Averbukh's program for Zhenya and now she changes to Wilson and ...you know what everyone's complaint is now again.

I think I’m one of the few people who liked the changing of choreographers then. I got exactly what I wished for and I’m happy with it. [emoji23]

But yeah, we are figure skating fans, we love to complain! [emoji23]

moriel · Oct 19, 2018

ancientpeas said:
I think one of the gifts Eteri gives Daniil is the compete dedication of those doing his programs. Those ladies are focused and disciplined and driven and that would be any choreographer dream. Evgenia, in particular, always seemed all in no matter what to the content of what she was skating. When you consider someone like Rohene who will take his name off a program if the skater changes any part of it I'm sure that is something Daniil does not have to worry about. I'm sure those ladies skate what they are given, as well as they can and that has to be nice to not have to fight for artistic control from your student. However, at a certain age, they are going to want input and they are going to have opinions. I'm sure it can be challenging.

There is no way of knowing what the future holds. Daniil may end up working with Evgenia again. People mend fences and time heals. Maybe in a few years things will be better btw Evgenia and Eteri's group. I hope so. She spent most of her life there.

I think Zhenya and Daniil working together is not that unlikely.
Its not like Daniil worked a lot with her, since most of her programs were doen by Averbukh. So my guess is that there are no or minor bad feelings.

But overall, does not have to be Zhenya, just any other team. Because overall, i feel that Daniil choreo has a "team" style also, which is present in choreos of Eteri team that were not done by Daniil.

moriel · Oct 19, 2018

ankifeather said:
When it comes to artistic creativity I don't think age has a direct relationship. You either have the vision or you don't, it is not something that necessarily grows with experience. If anything, I think some of the older established choreographer are running out of ideas - some really only have a set of styles that are successful for one or two specific skaters, and end up doing a disservice to other skaters by trying to stick them into those styles that don't necessarily work for them. Compare that to say Shae-Lynn, who is still relatively new on the choreographer scene, but I find is excellent at adapting to different skaters.

In that case I actually think Daniil is doing a decent job of trying to develop different styles of each girl - like I don't find Sasha's program similar to Alena or Alina's program. Not every single one of them may be mind-blowing pieces, but for the most part I think suits the girl so I don't think he is doing a particular disservice to any of them.

Also be careful of what you wish for - remember when everyone complained about Averbukh's program for Zhenya and now she changes to Wilson and ...you know what everyone's complaint is now again.

I think people call those programs similar because they are all equally full of details. Then, some users, instead of actually looking into the matter and comparing, say "they are all cluttered", without thinking too much.
The logic is same as if someone would say Kostner's programs are all the same because every program has long jump setups.

Daniil Gleikhengauz's programs

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