Vincent Zhou Withdraws from 2019 Grand Prix Series

SNAKSuyun · Oct 23, 2019

I actually expected to see something like this happen with Nathan, considering I did an engineering degree at Penn and the second year really ramps up compared to the first year (and it will ramp up again for the third year, and so on...) Guess Vincent's either finding it too much to chew or not in great competitive shape (see: something like Boyang's current shape) though.

1111bm · Oct 23, 2019

SNAKSuyun said:
I actually expected to see something like this happen with Nathan, considering I did an engineering degree at Penn and the second year really ramps up compared to the first year (and it will ramp up again for the third year, and so on...) Guess Vincent's either finding it too much to chew or not in great competitive shape (see: something like Boyang's current shape) though.

We'll see, it’s still a bit early into the semester and the new season, and I believe Nathan’s midterms are starting now too, which is in-between his two GP assignments, so I do ask myself how much time he was (and still is) able to devote to studying while also preparing for those two competitions.
I don't know how much time Yale students have to drop courses? But I assume Nathan is already taking the minimum number of required classes, and if he drops another one or more (counting next semester possibly too) will he have the possibility to take summer classes to fulfill the requirements at the end of the year (not sure what the exact rules are, just guessing)?

Just saying, that just because he hasn't withdrawn from competitions, doesn't mean he's not struggling at school. We don't know what grades are acceptable for him (maybe Vincent set higher standards for himself) and how he’s doing currently, he himself may only find out when he gets the results from his midterm exams.

ElSoteroLoco · Oct 23, 2019

So does the USA get to replace Vincent’s spot with another American? If so, then whom ???

el henry · Oct 23, 2019

ElSoteroLoco said:
So does the USA get to replace Vincent’s spot with another American? If so, then whom ???

The hosting fed replaces the skater. They could choose another American, or not. That may depend on how well all the feds play “Let’s make a deal”.

ElSoteroLoco · Oct 23, 2019

el henry said:
The hosting fed replaces the skater. They could choose another American, or not. That may depend on how well all the feds play “Let’s make a deal”.

Thank you

Harriet · Oct 23, 2019

el henry said:
The hosting fed replaces the skater. They could choose another American, or not. That may depend on how well all the feds play “Let’s make a deal”.

And how much they've got left in their transport-and-accommodation budget.

hanyuufan5 · Oct 23, 2019

...Midterms, man. Much as I want to be selfish and say, "No, I want to see him skate no matter what!"... midterms. Yeah. I get it. :laugh:

Good luck, Vincent! :ghug:

TallyT · Oct 23, 2019

ElSoteroLoco said:
So does the USA get to replace Vincent’s spot with another American? If so, then whom ???

According to this tweet, Daniel Samohin (ISR) got the Rostelecom spot.
https://twitter.com/InTheLoPodcast/status/1186996412174651392

ribbit · Oct 23, 2019

1111bm said:
I don't know how much time Yale students have to drop courses? But I assume Nathan is already taking the minimum number of required classes, and if he drops another one or more (counting next semester possibly too) will he have the possibility to take summer classes to fulfill the requirements at the end of the year (not sure what the exact rules are, just guessing)?

I have no idea how many courses Nathan is currently taking or planning to take. But any Yale undergraduate has to enroll in at least three credits per semester, and remain enrolled in at least two of them for the entire semester. Moreover, a student must make steady progress toward the requirement of 36 credits for graduation by earning a minimum number of credits by the end of each semester. At the end of each of the first four semesters, students must have earned another four credits--that is, a student has to have earned four credits at the end of the first semester, eight at the end of the second, and so on. (The last four semesters require another five credits per term, not four.) The only ways around this would be to get ahead in the summer by taking a summer course, or to petition for special permission to make up a deficit by taking an extra course in the following semester or the following summer. So Nathan, in his sophomore (second) year, will have had to take at least four credits in each semester last year, and has to take at least four credits each semester of this year unless he got a head start by taking courses last summer or more than four credits in at least one semester last year. (I assume the latter is unlikely, but hey--Nathan is pretty impressive).

Yale's rules are designed to ensure that students who receive a Yale degree actually did the bulk of their coursework at Yale. A student can count as many on-campus summer courses toward graduation as he or she wants, but Yale offers relatively few summer courses. Yale doesn't offer online courses during the year. A maximum of four Yale online summer courses can count toward graduation, and students can only take a maximum of two online courses per summer. A maximum of two courses from other universities, online or not, may count toward that 36-credit graduation requirement, and the bar to transfer online course credit is set high. Online courses can't be used to make up a deficit in progress toward graduation.

So assuming that Nathan isn't planning to graduate early (which would bring an additional set of rules into play, again designed to ensure that a student with a Yale degree actually got a Yale education), his options are pretty limited. He can take a maximum of six online courses, which would most sensibly work out at two per summer (four from Yale and two from other institutions). He could take additional on-campus summer courses, but that would (obviously) keep him in New Haven over the summer, away from Raf and the rest of his coaches and choreographers, not to mention his family. If he took two courses last summer, he could get away with taking three credits each semester this year--but even if he took another two courses next summer, he would have to go back up to four credits each semester the following year in order to keep up with the increasing progress requirements in his last two years.

To sum up: Yale leaves its students relatively little wiggle room. I'd say it's most likely that Nathan fulfilled his first-year requirements by taking four credits in each semester last year and either took two online summer courses, which would allow him to take three credits per semester this year, or is taking four credits per semester this year. It's also possible, of course, that he took online summer courses *and* is taking four credits per semester this year, in order to have some credits in the bank in the last two years of his degree. But if he's actually planning to take the next two years off and come back to Yale after the 2022 Olympics, it might be more appealing to plan to do those courses on campus during the regular semester, to get as much of the full Yale experience and to be able to choose from as wide a range of courses as possible.

http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/course-credits-course-loads/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/promotion-good-standing/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/academic-penalties-restrictions/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/special-arrangements/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/credit-from-other-universities/

alexaa · Oct 23, 2019

ribbit said:
I have no idea how many courses Nathan is currently taking or planning to take. But any Yale undergraduate has to enroll in at least three credits per semester, and remain enrolled in at least two of them for the entire semester. Moreover, a student must make steady progress toward the requirement of 36 credits for graduation by earning a minimum number of credits by the end of each semester. At the end of each of the first four semesters, students must have earned another four credits--that is, a student has to have earned four credits at the end of the first semester, eight at the end of the second, and so on. (The last four semesters require another five credits per term, not four.) The only ways around this would be to get ahead in the summer by taking a summer course, or to petition for special permission to make up a deficit by taking an extra course in the following semester or the following summer. So Nathan, in his sophomore (second) year, will have had to take at least four credits in each semester last year, and has to take at least four credits each semester of this year unless he got a head start by taking courses last summer or more than four credits in at least one semester last year. (I assume the latter is unlikely, but hey--Nathan is pretty impressive).

So assuming that Nathan isn't planning to graduate early (which would bring an additional set of rules into play, again designed to ensure that a student with a Yale degree actually got a Yale education), his options are pretty limited. He can take a maximum of six online courses, which would most sensibly work out at two per summer (four from Yale and two from other institutions). He could take additional on-campus summer courses, but that would (obviously) keep him in New Haven over the summer, away from Raf and the rest of his coaches and choreographers, not to mention his family.

To sum up: Yale leaves its students relatively little wiggle room. I'd say it's most likely that Nathan fulfilled his first-year requirements by taking four credits in each semester last year and either took two online summer courses, which would allow him to take three credits per semester this year, or is taking four credits per semester this year. It's also possible, of course, that he took online summer courses *and* is taking four credits per semester this year, in order to have some credits in the bank in the last two years of his degree. But if he's actually planning to take the next two years off and come back to Yale after the 2022 Olympics, it might be more appealing to plan to do those courses on campus during the regular semester, to get as much of the full Yale experience and to be able to choose from as wide a range of courses as possible.

Thanks for all the info, ribbit. Yale is really tough in terms of course requirements, leave policy etc. Nathan was really struggling around this time last year to a point he was having doubts of himself. Some posts sound like he had an easier path are really depressing to read.

Nathan is taking 4 courses this semester. According to him, it is much much harder than first year, and demands lot of attention. He is thinking about working with TAs to get all the help he needs, especially that the GP schedule is not accommodating.

He took two summer courses, one in each session. Empress Wenjing who went to ATS with him mentioned that whenever Nathan has break during practice, he was studying. That was during the first session. And Romain posted pictures of him studying in the break room when he was in the Ice Show in Japan.

He took 4 courses in the spring semester as well. He was talking about probably taking less courses in the next season in an interview back in April or May, but told Lilah of ice dance in the interview he might take two years off. However, Raf’s most recent interview stated that Nathan only promised one year to train with him full time, so no one has any idea what he is up to

.

Nathan really wants Raf to visit him at Yale, but understands that Raf has commitment to all other students.

He really enjoys his life at Yale, even though he thinks school is harder than skating, and he “complained” to Lilah there is no sleep during finals.

Skater Boy · Oct 23, 2019

QueenOfTheRoad said:
I think it is very smart of him to put his education ahead of the skating career. Very few can now live a whole life on the back of the figure skating, the situation in USA is not very rosa for skaters after ending the competitive career. Also, there are no guarantee that he will stay till next oly injury free or that he will get a medal there. Better to think now than latter.
He got the chance to get a very good education, chance not everyone gets in their life.

I find incredible unfair to compare his education situation and the decisions he takes with Nathan's. It is like those moms comparing ad nauseum the result of a kid with the other: "why didn't you get an A like the other kid? If he can, you can do as well, blah,blah,blah" (if he has lost 30 kg why don't you as well?, if he bought a villa in LA, why can you not?"... you know, that kind of annoying hurtful questions).

People have different strengths, different energy, different schedules and study requirements. Different desires and plans in their life. Different needs. Different family situations.

Well said. Each person is different and have different values and we do not know thier "issues" or things that affect their decisions - strengths, weakness, family issues, relationship issues, money, better environments etc. It is very tough to make a living off of skating especially North American (even harder in Canada which is so tiny compared to USA) While Nathan has some wonderful sponsors and "big companies" he isn't getting the money like a football player, golfer or tennis and usually lady figure skaters get more endorsements/money. I think you would have to go back to Michelle kwan for people who really made a living off of skating and their image with skating. yes, there are a lot of skaters who make their living on cruiseships but it isn't exactly a great salary to raise a family. Even Evan, Sasha, Rachel, Timothy, Sarah, Emily have new careers and it appears even Chan might become a real estate agent. Coaching and choreography has worked well for Orser, Buttle, Bourne, Scott Davis, Tiffany Chin, Charlene Wong, Tracey Wainman, Tracy Wilson, et al But skating as a performer is a long lost job it would appear. There are few pro ams and skating shows are dying inside North America. Vincent is being smart for him.

noskates · Oct 24, 2019

Two thoughts - first, Nathan said in an interview that he's taking a heavier load this year which leads me to believe he did the bare minimum last year while he worked on balancing his skating and his schooling - a very wise approach. Vincent, IIRC, has been home-schooled most of his life. If memory does serve me right, he not only has to adjust to living at school, skating and studying, but has to adjust to being in a classroom with other students, etc. etc. They could also be at different maturity levels with different coping skills. College for anyone is a big adjustment but throw competitive skating in there and the hours that requires - not everybody has the wherewithal to do it. Vincent is doing what's right for him in his situation.

MarkinBerkeley · Oct 24, 2019

Well, that's disappointing, but he needs to do what's best for him. I have to wonder why some of these skaters don't defer college for a while. You can always go when your skating career is over.

MarkinBerkeley · Oct 24, 2019

I completed college when I was 37, so I was always one of the oldest students--if not the oldest - in my classes.

SNAKSuyun · Oct 24, 2019

Is Nathan still thinking about pre-med? Because if he's not, and just wants his stats degree as well as the general Yale experience (networking + enjoying the culture + participating in some cool stuff), it's doable. Still tough, of course, but doable (just considering my recent experience doing Penn engineering without a significant side commitment - I was doing an average of five credits per term since you need a lot of credits to graduate from engineering). Doing pre-med, though, will be tough, considering he then has to grind out the grades as well, not to say hopefully get some research/volunteering experience under his belt :/ My best friend did the same engineering degree as me and is now in Yale Med School, and her undergraduate life was straight up brutal.

I wonder if Vincent's passing up a chance to become the #2 US skater. Right now it still looks pretty contested between him and Jason, and Jason has that edge of being seen as one of the most artistic active skaters in Men's Singles.

1111bm · Oct 24, 2019

ribbit said:
I have no idea how many courses Nathan is currently taking or planning to take. But any Yale undergraduate has to enroll in at least three credits per semester, and remain enrolled in at least two of them for the entire semester. Moreover, a student must make steady progress toward the requirement of 36 credits for graduation by earning a minimum number of credits by the end of each semester. At the end of each of the first four semesters, students must have earned another four credits--that is, a student has to have earned four credits at the end of the first semester, eight at the end of the second, and so on. (The last four semesters require another five credits per term, not four.) The only ways around this would be to get ahead in the summer by taking a summer course, or to petition for special permission to make up a deficit by taking an extra course in the following semester or the following summer. So Nathan, in his sophomore (second) year, will have had to take at least four credits in each semester last year, and has to take at least four credits each semester of this year unless he got a head start by taking courses last summer or more than four credits in at least one semester last year. (I assume the latter is unlikely, but hey--Nathan is pretty impressive).

Yale's rules are designed to ensure that students who receive a Yale degree actually did the bulk of their coursework at Yale. A student can count as many on-campus summer courses toward graduation as he or she wants, but Yale offers relatively few summer courses. Yale doesn't offer online courses during the year. A maximum of four Yale online summer courses can count toward graduation, and students can only take a maximum of two online courses per summer. A maximum of two courses from other universities, online or not, may count toward that 36-credit graduation requirement, and the bar to transfer online course credit is set high. Online courses can't be used to make up a deficit in progress toward graduation.

So assuming that Nathan isn't planning to graduate early (which would bring an additional set of rules into play, again designed to ensure that a student with a Yale degree actually got a Yale education), his options are pretty limited. He can take a maximum of six online courses, which would most sensibly work out at two per summer (four from Yale and two from other institutions). He could take additional on-campus summer courses, but that would (obviously) keep him in New Haven over the summer, away from Raf and the rest of his coaches and choreographers, not to mention his family. If he took two courses last summer, he could get away with taking three credits each semester this year--but even if he took another two courses next summer, he would have to go back up to four credits each semester the following year in order to keep up with the increasing progress requirements in his last two years.

To sum up: Yale leaves its students relatively little wiggle room. I'd say it's most likely that Nathan fulfilled his first-year requirements by taking four credits in each semester last year and either took two online summer courses, which would allow him to take three credits per semester this year, or is taking four credits per semester this year. It's also possible, of course, that he took online summer courses *and* is taking four credits per semester this year, in order to have some credits in the bank in the last two years of his degree. But if he's actually planning to take the next two years off and come back to Yale after the 2022 Olympics, it might be more appealing to plan to do those courses on campus during the regular semester, to get as much of the full Yale experience and to be able to choose from as wide a range of courses as possible.

http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/course-credits-course-loads/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/promotion-good-standing/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/academic-penalties-restrictions/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/special-arrangements/
http://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/academic-regulations/credit-from-other-universities/

Wow, thank you so much for writing all of this down! :thank:

hanyuufan5 · Oct 24, 2019

Looking at his Wikipedia page, he was(/is?) a straight-A student, skipped a few grades and was doing precalculus and programming in what would have been 7th grade, and also got the Presidential Award for Educational Excellence. Wow! Sounds like he's just as talented academically as he is athletically. When you're that good at two different things, it can be very difficult if not impossible to go full-force into both (no matter how much you probably want to). If he wants to keep up those straight A's or close to, yeah, a few competitions probably have to go, especially if they line up with midterms.

alexaa · Oct 24, 2019

noskates said:
Two thoughts - first, Nathan said in an interview that he's taking a heavier load this year which leads me to believe he did the bare minimum last year while he worked on balancing his skating and his schooling - a very wise approach. Vincent, IIRC, has been home-schooled most of his life. If memory does serve me right, he not only has to adjust to living at school, skating and studying, but has to adjust to being in a classroom with other students, etc. etc. They could also be at different maturity levels with different coping skills. .

Nathan takes same number of classes this semester as he did in spring.”Heavier course loads” refers to the courses are much harder than last year. The homework is especially time consuming, he sometimes needs the help of TAs to figure out how to do homework, and there are lots of exams.

Yes, adjustments to college life is hard, Nathan was always sick almost throughout entire last season. He threw up right after free program run through at WTT. He was sick before worlds, and had to cancel trip to Gadbois. His mom told a Japanese fan that she repeatedly told him to pay attention on his health, but somehow he got sick all the time.

Karen was sick during SA. It is painful to watch her competing while battling cold/flu. She also complained sleep deprivation.

SNAKSuyun said:
Is Nathan still thinking about pre-med? Because if he's not, and just wants his stats degree as well as the general Yale experience (networking + enjoying the culture + participating in some cool stuff), it's doable. Still tough, of course, but doable (just considering my recent experience doing Penn engineering without a significant side commitment - I was doing an average of five credits per term since you need a lot of credits to graduate from engineering). Doing pre-med, though, will be tough, considering he then has to grind out the grades as well, not to say hopefully get some research/volunteering experience under his belt :/ My best friend did the same engineering degree as me and is now in Yale Med School, and her undergraduate life was straight up brutal.

.

In several interviews he did this summer, med school is still on his mind. It is just logistically not feasible for him right now. He might do those requirements after Beijing. He even joked that he might still be in med school when he is 30 years old.

oatmella · Oct 24, 2019

From Nathan’s interviews, his homework/problem sets are a lot more challenging this school year.

He said that if he were to pursue medicine, he would have to do a postbac program.

Skater Boy · Oct 24, 2019

bonita said:
Nathan takes same number of classes this semester as he did in spring.”Heavier course loads” refers to the courses are much harder than last year. The homework is especially time consuming, he sometimes needs the help of TAs to figure out how to do homework, and there are lots of exams.

Yes, adjustments to college life is hard, Nathan was always sick almost throughout entire last season. He threw up right after free program run through at WTT. He was sick before worlds, and had to cancel trip to Gadbois. His mom told a Japanese fan that she repeatedly told him to pay attention on his health, but somehow he got sick all the time.

Karen was sick during SA. It is painful to watch her competing while battling cold/flu. She also complained sleep deprivation.

In several interviews he did this summer, med school is still on his mind. It is just logistically not feasible for him right now. He might do those requirements after Beijing. He even joked that he might still be in med school when he is 30 years old.

Well he could maybe do what Joannie Rochette did. Skate up to a certain time and then refocus on school. But Nathan is extraordinary so you never know. I feel such an under achiever next to these humans.

Vincent Zhou Withdraws from 2019 Grand Prix Series

SNAKSuyun

did it spark joy?

1111bm

ElSoteroLoco

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

ElSoteroLoco

Harriet

hanyuufan5

✨＊:。

TallyT

ribbit

alexaa

Skater Boy

noskates

MarkinBerkeley

MarkinBerkeley

SNAKSuyun

did it spark joy?

1111bm

hanyuufan5

✨＊:。

alexaa

oatmella

陈巍

Skater Boy

Similar threads

Connect with us

Vincent Zhou Withdraws from 2019 Grand Prix Series

did it spark joy?

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

✨*＊:。*

did it spark joy?

✨*＊:。*

&#38472;&#24013;

Similar threads

✨＊:。

✨＊:。

陈巍