Competitive careers in the face of Worlds 2020 cancellation

I’m slightly bitter for Artur Danielian, he and his team gave up going to Junior Nationals in favour of performing at Senior Worlds. It would’ve been really cool to see him with the big guns in Montreal. He would have likely been far from the podium, but that would be invaluable experience for the future. This was like his window of opportunity, he will likely not have it next season, either Kolyada will make a great return, Samarin will make a comeback from not-so-stellar season, other Juniors like Mozalev will have a great senior debut, and there will be far more competition for him

That said, I know Artur was developing some problem with his feet, so hopefully he will be able to heal and come back in great condition next season, either in Juniors or Seniors (I think he might do the same thing as this season - try senior nationals and see what happens).

GoneWithTheWind said:

• Tarasova/Morozov - not the best season (by their standards, eg: not making GPF, getting beaten at Europeans by B/K), Worlds could've been their moment to shine, regain their momentum and win another medal. If they continue to struggle, Pavliuchenko/Khodykin and Mishina/Galliamov could seize the moment and overtake T/M, plus they may face a challenge from any pairs moving up. However, they still have the third highest SB, despite their struggles, so I really hope they can reset over the break and come back fighting to show us all their potential next season.

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T/M finally fessed up via an interview with Max in the Russian press that she has been skating with an injured leg this season and that it has impacted their ability to fully train. It explains pretty much everything about them this season—the errors and their demeanor/attitude. Everyone, including me, thought it was psychological and they were losing their will to compete. I was relieved to read it was an injury. Hopefully, she’ll be able to fully rehab now and be back to her usual self next season.

I feel like they benefit in the end because now they don’t slip behind a younger team at worlds because of injury.

pesto said:

Then for Piper and Paul, losing a chance for a good showing at a home Worlds in their best season. Likewise, Moore-Towers and Marinaro. I don't think either couple would have won a medal, but they could have been challenging for last group placings.

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If actually think both teams had a good chance at a medal, which would have solidified their careers on a new trajectory. I'm gutted for them both. And I really wanted to see their FD and LP respectively again because these were two of my favourite programs of the season across all disciplines.

I think this was a boon for Hubbell and Donohue. They had bad programs and were going to finish off the podium.

I think it's a bit of a wash for S/K and P/C. People can still choose to believe that Euros was a blip — or not, whatever their inclination.

I think that this was an important year for Lajoie/Lagha at worlds, because it would have showed they can compete with the best seniors in the world. It was their transitional year finale.

I don't think this has much impact on mens, except for the Canadians who really needed to get two spots back, and what better chance to do it than home worlds?

Will the 3A be as dominant next year in ladies? Only time will tell, but I do think the elements will start to get harder and harder. I think this situation will be a benefit to Rika Kihira, provided she can come back next season with a better LP.

This gives Miyahara more time to work on her new technique.

I'm sure there's more, but these came to mind immediately.

rain said:

If actually think both teams had a good chance at a medal, which would have solidified their careers on a new trajectory. I'm gutted for them both. And I really wanted to see their FD and LP respectively again because these were two of my favourite programs of the season across all disciplines.

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It would have been a longshot for G/P to win a medal, with them being outside the final RD group and not getting the levels there all year.

In that one sense they arguably benefit here, since they end the 2019-20 season with more points than Guignard/Fabbri and Stepanova/Bukin, who don't have the chance to try to place higher than them at Worlds.

Colonel Green said:

It would have been a longshot for G/P to win a medal, with them being outside the final RD group and not getting the levels there all year.

In that one sense they arguably benefit here, since they end the 2019-20 season with more points than Guignard/Fabbri and Stepanova/Bukin, who don't have the chance to try to place higher than them at Worlds.

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I could not disagree more. I don't think there was any chance that G/F and S/B were going to place above them.

I really wanted to see Bradie and Mariah skate well at worlds and earn the US three spots! I was also hoping that Jason would have skates-of-his-life, and medal. And I was greatly looking forward to the Yuzuru/Nathan showdown. And the Three A's... (I call them the Three Kittens, because I'm a crazy cat lady). Ugh, so devastating for them. The podium was theirs to lose. (Of course, people like Rika had some opinions about that!) I think they have a good shot of remaining dominant next season, though.

ruga said:

-The 3A would have probably been at their peak now. Considering the increasing technical requirements and upcoming juniors, it means that one or two of them may be left without Worlds title.

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Two of them would have been left without the Worlds title even if the event wasn't cancelled.. And no significant juniors are coming next year.

Seven Sisters said:

someone who did not benefit from Worlds being cancelled: Gilles & Poirier. They would have gone to a Worlds in their home country as Canada #1;

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I couldn't agree more and I'm most gutted for them. They were so mega looking forward to this, and with the new costumes, it would have been quite some show. I'm not saying that I believe they would have won a medal for sure, but I cannot completely rule it out either. Despite the GP Final, they had a smashing season and stranger things have happened.
Also, SinKats would have at least had a chance to seriously go for gold. Chock/Bates are in fantastic form, but even they can make mistakes (unlikely this time, I admit). Pap/Ciz had no chance to fight back after Europeans and I'm sure they're pretty peed off about it.

I also feel very sorry for Kevin Aymoz, who cannot redeem himself and ended his season on what I can only imagine as a huge personal disappointment. Beneficiary of the cancellation is Sasha Samarin, without any doubt. Although I'm sorry for Artur to have taken that opportunity away for now, but hey, is a teenager. If he continues like that, he'll make it to Worlds another time.

Boikova/Kozlovskii must be terribly gutted. They had a realistic chance to beat both Chinese pairs and T/M. For the latter, this could be a godsend. Zhenya and Vovan need to get their act together in the light of the enormous challenges they face in Russia alone. If the injury story is really true, this explains a lot and they have a chance to show their formidable skills again next year.
Mishina/Galliamov might not be too sad about the cancellation... It's the other way around for P/K, now the heat is on and I expect another season of well deserved Russian pairs domination. It's enormously tough for me as a fan, as I love all the Russian teams and wish they could all compete.

I also feel for Yuzu, who is definitely super disappointed. He dug up two of his (imo) best ever programmes and cannot perform them at, what is probably his last shot, at Worlds.

For me personally, this was one of the outstanding seasons that I'll never forget (another one was 2015/16 to me). I took time off work for next week and I've been looking forward to this for weeks now. Also to the live chat, as they got better and better this season too. Yeah, health comes first, but....

I wish all the skaters could perform exactly the same programmes again next season. Hone their skills and make them as perfect as possible. I want to see P/J's Alegria again!!!!

Azikin said:

Two of them would have been left without the Worlds title even if the event wasn't cancelled.. And no significant juniors are coming next year.

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And two of them won't win next year so they have less chance for a world title.
While it's amazing to see 3A fight for the gold, I always think that each of them would deserve gold.

Colonel Green said:

Honestly, just based on this season I think Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen will be more focused on staying about of Lajoie/Lagha than on challenging for #1.

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I agree with this. At least one good thing out of this mess is that Canada should still get three spots for Worlds next year, which was unlikely to happen with FB/S having to pull out.


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Well it benefits skaters who were at 4CC, that is one thing. And as i have heard the idea that GP spots could be based on season rankings.


For instance http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrmen.htm

Jason Brown finishes the season in sixth. Nathan Chen finishes in 15th. This could mean Jason is a seeded skater and Nathan is only guaranteed one via world standings and not season rankings. I mean we know Nathan will get a two assignments if he wants them, but still, interesting. It could also mean that he does not get SA if the skaters ahead of him want it.

Another interesting thing if they go this route is we could see Nathan and Hanyu face off at a GP... or even two. Normally they would almost certainly be seeded such that they would not face off. But with Nathan not seeded, there is no impediment to them being at the same GP.

Also interesting is that the 75th skaters this season is Sondre ODDVOLL BOE - which actually makes him GP eligible. Not something likely to happen if worlds happened.

on the women's side http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrladies.htm

Amber Glenn and Karen Chen are higher up than Mariah Bell. In fact Starr Andrews gets to finish the season as our second highest senior thanks to junior worlds. I suspect Mariah will have no issue with getting two spots, but this could help Amber, Starr and Karen get spots next season.

I think the Canadian likely get the most benefit from this. They had almost no chance of keeping two spots. But if the spots this year carry over to next year, they will have two and have a year to help develop and nurture their new national champ Emily. I think they will be in a better position next year and better able to get two spots for the Olympics.

StitchMonkey said:

Well it benefits skaters who were at 4CC, that is one thing. And as i have heard the idea that GP spots could be based on season rankings.


For instance http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrmen.htm

Jason Brown finishes the season in sixth. Nathan Chen finishes in 15th. This could mean Jason is a seeded skater and Nathan is only guaranteed one via world standings and not season rankings. I mean we know Nathan will get a two assignments if he wants them, but still, interesting. It could also mean that he does not get SA if the skaters ahead of him want it.

Another interesting thing if they go this route is we could see Nathan and Hanyu face off at a GP... or even two. Normally they would almost certainly be seeded such that they would not face off. But with Nathan not seeded, there is no impediment to them being at the same GP.

Also interesting is that the 75th skaters this season is Sondre ODDVOLL BOE - which actually makes him GP eligible. Not something likely to happen if worlds happened.

on the women's side http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrladies.htm

Amber Glenn and Karen Chen are higher up than Mariah Bell. In fact Starr Andrews gets to finish the season as our second highest senior thanks to junior worlds. I suspect Mariah will have no issue with getting two spots, but this could help Amber, Starr and Karen get spots next season.

I think the Canadian likely get the most benefit from this. They had almost no chance of keeping two spots. But if the spots this year carry over to next year, they will have two and have a year to help develop and nurture their new national champ Emily. I think they will be in a better position next year and better able to get two spots for the Olympics.

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That's very interesting regarding the season's ranking and how it might impact next year's competitions.

Canada might have caught a break with the women, but does this also mean that they can only have one man next year at World's? This is a preposterous position for Canada, considering their long and fabled history in the men's event. Frankly, I was not convinced Nam could get the second spot back, but at least there was a reasonable chance.

StitchMonkey said:

Well it benefits skaters who were at 4CC, that is one thing. And as i have heard the idea that GP spots could be based on season rankings.


For instance http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrmen.htm

Jason Brown finishes the season in sixth. Nathan Chen finishes in 15th. This could mean Jason is a seeded skater and Nathan is only guaranteed one via world standings and not season rankings. I mean we know Nathan will get a two assignments if he wants them, but still, interesting. It could also mean that he does not get SA if the skaters ahead of him want it.

Another interesting thing if they go this route is we could see Nathan and Hanyu face off at a GP... or even two. Normally they would almost certainly be seeded such that they would not face off. But with Nathan not seeded, there is no impediment to them being at the same GP.

Also interesting is that the 75th skaters this season is Sondre ODDVOLL BOE - which actually makes him GP eligible. Not something likely to happen if worlds happened.

on the women's side http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2019-20/wrladies.htm

Amber Glenn and Karen Chen are higher up than Mariah Bell. In fact Starr Andrews gets to finish the season as our second highest senior thanks to junior worlds. I suspect Mariah will have no issue with getting two spots, but this could help Amber, Starr and Karen get spots next season.

I think the Canadian likely get the most benefit from this. They had almost no chance of keeping two spots. But if the spots this year carry over to next year, they will have two and have a year to help develop and nurture their new national champ Emily. I think they will be in a better position next year and better able to get two spots for the Olympics.

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I’m sure Nathan will have no problem being assigned SA. World standings or SB could also be used for seeding.

TontoK said:

That's very interesting regarding the season's ranking and how it might impact next year's competitions.

Canada might have caught a break with the women, but does this also mean that they can only have one man next year at World's? This is a preposterous position for Canada, considering their long and fabled history in the men's event. Frankly, I was not convinced Nam could get the second spot back, but at least there was a reasonable chance.

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I suspect they will, which does suck going into the Olympics for them. Nam I agree with. He could have been anywhere from bronze to not making the free. He is a wildcard. But we will see how next season unfold. Perhaps Roman will be able to use his national title to build momentum. Perhaps not having the pressure of home worlds will impact nationals. Who knows really.

oatmella said:

I’m sure Nathan will have no problem being assigned SA. World standings or SB could also be used for seeding.

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I am sure Nathan will have no problem getting whatever ever two GPs he wants. But I am not sure he will be seeded. I think he will have one guaranteed spot via world standings, but that is not the same as the seeded skaters who are only normally the top six at worlds.

Frankly I don't think it's in anyone's interest to use the season standings to determine who gets which GP, especially without Nathan seeded... Here are 3 other options they could use for spots.
-> Worlds standings as of today, in this case the seeds are Nathan/Yuzu/Shoma and Dima/Misha/Jason. Samarin, Rizzo, Jin, Cha, Messing, Zhou all get automatically 2 GP spots.
-> use the results from GPF. In this case the seeds are Nathan/Yuzu/Kevin and Samarin/Boyang/Dima. Jason, Nam, Keiji, Keegan, Matteo and Makar all get automatically 2 GP spots.
-> use season bests. In this case the seeds are Nathan/Yuzu/Kevin and Jason/Dima/Yuma. Boyang, Junhwan, Keegan, Samarin, Nam and Shoma all get automatically 2 GP spots.

I think they should go with season bests, also because that's what makes more sense in terms of seeds in ladies (I am too lazy to make the same lists I did for men for ladies, pairs and ice dance sorry).

There doesn't need to be any official seeding. The organizers can just pick and choose the skaters amongst themselves until they're all mostly satisfied. Honestly, they would probably prefer not having to worry about any seeding rules.

I am sure they have people on the payroll to figure it out. Option 2 + Uno, though...

StitchMonkey said:

I am sure Nathan will have no problem getting whatever ever two GPs he wants. But I am not sure he will be seeded. I think he will have one guaranteed spot via world standings, but that is not the same as the seeded skaters who are only normally the top six at worlds.

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I think season standings is the least likely of any option to be used for GP spots. It’s the least logical - the season had to end early. Yes, the current situation is obviously not the same as seeded skaters being determined by Worlds placements, as Worlds was canceled.

moonvine said:

I’m so sick of people writing my babies off. If they have another season like they did this year, I hope they consider a *coaching change.*. They do not lack talent.

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I don't think anyone has ever suggested they "do not lack talent" ? They clearly do, but ice dance is perhaps the worst in terms of reputation judging and momentum judging and the last few years they haven't managed to hit their stride, therefore putting their place on the worlds team at risk? I personally think a coaching change where they don't get lost in a mix would be wise, but I'm not convinced that they believe that.

I can see a Season’s Best or Worlds Standing being used as a baseline, just to give the organizers something to say that they looked at.

Much of it is trading and wheeling and dealing anyway. Nathan may have been Worlds Champ before this past season, but I had a bridge in Brooklyn to sell anyone who thought that his preference would get him the NHK assignment over Yuzu (nor should it. Likewise Skate America with Nathan. I am *not* saying it was Nathan’s preference, I am saying it would not have made any difference).

Jason is getting two assignments no matter what, and SA is probably one of them. My bigger query is will he keep his programs