2015 Skate Canada Ladies Short Program

[OS]

I find the field generally experienced an inflation of 3-8 PCS from Sochi, lesser for the veterans who were held to preSochi level standard (Mao, or even Carolina will eventually need to be aligned up to the NEW standard when they returns) vs certain youngsters, so 67 is roughly in line with what I'd score Ashley pre-Sochi inflation with no lutz, but she did have 2 jump elements after half way bonus.

However, given the current level, it makes sense from ISU perspective for putting the right mix of contender for the GP, especially consider there were 5 Russian finalists last year. Plus Evgenia just won SA over Gracie as a newbie debut her seniors. Ashley is a 3 times GPF medalist veteran (2nd, 3rd, 3rd previous 3 years in a row), she got some bonus for putting out one of her better short in ages. I agree the performance could improve with some pizzazz especially towards the end when she seems to have some stamina issues, or may be just skate a bit tentatively not letting silly mistakes get away from her. However, given how regular 70s scores became an occurrence these days (Yuna got 69 for her Kotv with 33.18 PCS at WC2013)... this ain't half bad. I think it was deliberate for her to show a more maturer and sophisticated version of Samba, which she succeeded.

May be people who don't like her program, don't appreciate Samba or the music version they picked in the first place? A matter of taste.

 

[[email protected]]

Guys, educate me, please. Tursunbaeva had 2 jumps instead of having 1 combination plus 1 jump. She received
3Lz+COMBO for the first one. It means that you will get the full 1 jump score for the missed combo? Seems sort of unfair as both Gracie and Liza received 0 for their doubled triples.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Guys, educate me, please. Tursunbaeva had 2 jumps instead of having 1 combination plus 1 jump. She received
3Lz+COMBO for the first one. It means that you will get the full 1 jump score for the missed combo? Seems sort of unfair as both Gracie and Liza received 0 for their doubled triples.

You can't do any solo double jumps in the SP besides the axel. Actually the first jump in Combination needs to be a triple too.

 

[[email protected]]

But you can do 2 solo triples instead of solo + combo? That's not logical.

 

[russell30]

Polina's spin would have received 0 points in the LP with this call as well. It wasn't just a SP issue. That spin never would have been scored as such under a more organic judging system, though. Nobody looks at that spin and goes "oh, yeah, this girl can't do a sit spin." She WAS low enough to meet the requirement in the first place! That's the dumb part here. She was only too high up during the change-of-edge portion, perhaps, because her butt goes up slightly when she does the change-of-edge feature. So at minimum the spin deserved a Level 3, she just loses credit for that position.



75? For that?

Her spins are average (and the combination spin should really only be getting called level 3, that position she does after the camel is not good enough), double axel was rather weak. The skating skills are not top-tier and it's especially noticeable in the footwork sequence. The choreography is fun but watch her feet, the turns are not so strong. The ending of the program is not very good either, she comes out of the spin and just kind of slouches into an ending pose. It doesn't fulfill the sexiness or pizzazz of the music/program.

I would have scored it as:

3Flip+3Toe, +1 GOE = 10.3 (the rotation on the 3Toe is still questionable as usual, but sure, let's give it to her)
FSSp4, +1 GOE = 3.5
CCoSp3, +1 GOE = 3.5 (position after camel is not good enough for level credit, ending of the spin could be stronger too)
2Axel, +.5 GOE = 3.88 (bonus section of SP, jump itself is nothing special, doesn't bend her knee on landing, will give minor bonus for transition)
3Loop, +1 GOE = 6.31 (good entrance, not her biggest jump though and the rotation was honestly squeaked out)
StSq3, +1 GOE = 3.8 (one judge gave her a +3, LOL. That judge needs to retire. With the quality of her edges and turns, +2's aren't warranted either.)
LSp4, +1 GOE = 3.2

SS = 7.75
TR = 8.25 (an improvement here, still could be more difficult and fluid)
PE = 8.5 (very committed performance, except for the ending and the double axel entrance)
CH = 8.0 (spins could be better, not all of the choreography is fully extended as it could be, a couple moves feel out of place)
IN = 8.25 (very good but not all of the elements are great with the music; the music is salsa but a few moves look more like vaudeville)

With the factored score for the program components, that would put her at a total of 67.09.

I agree with TES but this is where the second mark is questionable, for me that is 9's straight across, its an overall performance and she did just that, that was a SAMBA to me! and if I were judging that, I would have seen it like that!

 

[Icey]

Nicks was listed as one of Ashely's coaches. Didn't realize she was still working with him. Shae Lynn is writ large on Ashely's short.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So Tukt is done. Another one of those one hit wonder, destroyed by puberty, IKEA Russians.

Wow. Fans are so fickle. Tukt hasn't even finished this competition or her GP series and suddenly "she's done".

 

[ordinary person]

One of my biggest pet peeves with dresses in skating is when ladies have a skirt so sheer that you can see the leotard on the bottom. It's never a good look. I wish Tuk would stop wearing skirts like that.

While i dislike transparent clothing very much, you do know that you can always see the leotard on bottoms right? (This is what you get for wearing trashy skin colored tights)

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Wow. Fans are so fickle. Tukt hasn't even finished this competition or her GP series and suddenly "she's done".

Well, I'd hardly call it 'fans'; it is one poster who was speedily disagreed with by multiple people.

 

[Mathman]

But you can do 2 solo triples instead of solo + combo? That's not logical.

I had the same question. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Can you do, say, a quad toe for your single jump and a quad Salchow (no second jump) for your "combo" and still get a bag full of points?

 

[solani]

One thing I don't like about Polina is that she is always 'shocked' when things are called technically- flip !? Shocked! And so on... IMO it would be better to say something like 'at this point, I'm surprised and honestly don't understand why this call way made. However, we will be reviewing the video and going over this in detail to figure out how to prevent something similar from happening in the future'.

As she phrases it now it makes it sound like she's not the problem, the tech panel is (and in fact she once outright said that about her flip). It would be better IMO to acknowledge there is or at least very well might be a problem and say that you are going to work to find it and fix it, not just from a PR standpoint but from a practical one. Being shocked isn't going to help you get the points next time, and 'personally feeling it went very well' is totally irrelevant and actually a bad thing if something is getting invalidated since you didn't meet technical requirements.

I like that she's not a PR trained puppet. She does fix the technical problems she has, so she just needs a little time to accept them maybe? I think her mindset is very good for an athlete. She was annoyed, I can understand that and she was outspoken about it. Not a big deal really.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I had the same question. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Can you do, say, a quad toe for your single jump and a quad Salchow (no second jump) for your "combo" and still get a bag full of points?

Wrong thread. Maybe at Mens'.

 

[MalAssada]

I had the same question. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Can you do, say, a quad toe for your single jump and a quad Salchow (no second jump) for your "combo" and still get a bag full of points?

I don't know the rules, but if I recall correctly the triple-COMBO gets -3s across the board.

 

[meem]

Late to the dance but WOW! Did Ashley sell that program or what? You go girl! What a perfect musical choice for her and the choreography was perfect too. It truly was a short program that looked like it belonged in an exhibition program because of its entertainment value. It can only get better (altho' it was pretty darn good last night).

 

[TontoK]

I'm not disputing your interpretation of the rules in saying the following:

That is ridiculous. So, Polina Edmunds gets zero points for a spin that was completed (to some extent, anyway) but someone who only does one jump is credited for a combination? I'm not complaining about the ruling on Polina's spin... simply pointing out the insanity of the rules.

Honestly. ISU needs to fix this.

 

[andromache]

I'm not disputing your interpretation of the rules in saying the following:

That is ridiculous. So, Polina Edmunds gets zero points for a spin that was completed (to some extent, anyway) but someone who only does one jump is credited for a combination? I'm not complaining about the ruling on Polina's spin... simply pointing out the insanity of the rules.

Honestly. ISU needs to fix this.

I hope this drives the ISU to change spin rules for next year. It's bad for the popularity of the sport to see a spin definitely done and completed and then not allow it to receive ANY credit. If it's confusing to diehards here who can detect minor URs, edge errors, and Zayaking, just imagine how it is for casual viewers. It's silly.

 

[MIM]

I only watched men's event live and did not check the results of the ladies' until this morning. I panicked!! WHAAAAATTTTT?:shocked:

I was totally impressed by Yuka, who was so elegant and powerful at the same time. She takes time and care to finish movements. She could use more facial expression, but I love her interpretation, posture, jumps, skating, and almost everything. I kept my eyes on her since last year JGP. She is amazing once she goes clean; but when she doesn't, very painful to watch. Hope the momentum continue and she succeeds in the LP.

Kaetlyn was such a beautiful lady. Her Skating skill was the best here, using a whole body. Her jumps and all other elements had speed, power, flow, and elegance. Those falls were dreadful, but she kept her smile on her face. She has the most wonderful presence IMO.

Kanako was on! I am happy she got her fire back. I liked her choreo the best even to the overused music. Last year her beautiful SP was buried because the LP was a disaster. But I hope this year is different!!

Polina was very classical. Looking her upper body movements, she was literally a ballerina on the ice. She was not perfect yet (sometimes slow, sometimes hand gestures awkward a.k.a. burger hand) but, I am happy that she found her style and the program really complements her new look!

Okay, I understand Ashley did a crowd favorite performance, and she skated the only clean program here. But, her program feels empty. She did the bare minimum/basic amount of steps and elements, then most of the program was filled with a crossover and a pose. Crossover with hand/arm gesture. That was the part I thought her missed opportunity at the JO besides jumps and spins. Now I see she packaged her SP pretty much the same way. However, she never missed a moment to engage the crowd and the judges, which is her amazing qualities. (I wished Kanako learned from Ashley. She missed quite a few crucial moment to impress judges by doing something else) I think her high energy and fresh new SP program made a big difference since the JO. I am curious how she plays out the LP.

As far as the crowd got excited, I think Joshi did just as great as Ashley did. Actually Joshi did more steps and transitions than Ashley did, though they were not sharp and clean.

Liza... I bet she will come back strong here if not, at the next event. She has all the tools and qualities she needs. She will be 100% and more eventually.

Elizabet is a poor thing. Her practice was was perfect. I guess it is a rookie thing. she will get only better with experiences.

 

[mustafakent]

OMG I can not believe what I read here.I read in astonishment.I knew haters gonna hate but...This is sort of surprising.You guys just can't stand the idea of Ashley winning.We have permanent haters who always find something not to like about Ashley and now they envy the score because their favourite failed.Then there is a guy who always does scoring again after Ashley gets high scores.And some say judges wanted to ignore her underrotation.Don't forget that this is Ashley Wagner you are talking about, who hit only 2 clean 3-3 out of 12 attempts and received 7 UR calls last season.You would say for another skater "OMG this is great even though they lost her luggage she didn't care about that she took her friend's dress she is so determined what a fighter!!!"

Just unbelievable.

 

[Barb]

OMG I can not believe what I read here.I read in astonishment.I knew haters gonna hate but...This is sort of surprising.You guys just can't stand the idea of Ashley winning.We have permanent haters who always find something not to like about Ashley and now they envy the score because their favourite failed.Then there is a guy who always does scoring again after Ashley gets high scores.And some say judges wanted to ignore her underrotation.Don't forget that this is Ashley Wagner you are talking about, who hit only 2 clean 3-3 out of 12 attempts and received 7 UR calls last season.You would say for another skater "OMG this is great even though they lost her luggage she didn't care about that she took her friend's dress she is so determined what a fighter!!!"

Just unbelievable.

I love Ashley, I am happy for her and I agree with her score but I just don´t like the program.

 

[StitchMonkey]

The ISU is really out of their minds now. Not only the solo triple rule but spins too. Whether Polina did get the requirements or not, she still executed a good sit spin yet it receives exactly the same marks as Kaetlyn's flying camel spin which she fell on. I mean, seriously? Polina actually did the spin, and spins may not always be easy. The ISU should do something like "your butt has to be below the knee to receive level 3" or maybe "you need _____number of revolutions to receive level 3" instead of invalidating the whole spin just because ONE requirement was not met, whether the difference was big or small.

I guess it's possible they considered Polina to be too high in her position AND also didn't complete a certain number of revolutions for a single spin but they should still award her for actually spinning.

Or just have the tech panel flag it similar to an edge call/under rotation and add a rule that GOE must be -3. That still gives the tech panel control, and would not be that much more points, it would however differentiate between the two instances you cite.