2015 World Team Trophy Mens SP Apr 16

[silverfoxes]

So why is the WTT Men's SP the Maxim Kovtun thread? :think: He's gotten more post then the seven people who finished above him!

My two cents: I don't see why we can have a more nuanced discussion about Kovtun without resorting to "hater" or "boohoo he's so hated by fans" status.

My take on Kovtun is that when he brings the quads and the 3As, he is a forced to be reckoned with, but I think it's done to cover quite a few weaknesses, which is why, even with execution of quads and 3As, he doesn't get those super high scores relative to others who also do the quads. And when those quads and 3As are MIA or not cleanly executed, there isn't much left to hold him up. He doesn't do a flip or a loop.

I do think Kovtun has sincerely tried to improve his artistic weaknesses, especially in reaching out to Charlie White during their time on The Ice to work on step sequences, but it's definitely still a work in progress. I also think he does tend to do a lot of reprogramming on the fly to make up points when me makes an error, which means he doesn't give up as others claim.

So today, he had a major step out on the 4S and a 3A<. He isn't necessarily the best at the non-jump stuff, so the result a TES of 36.58. For comparison (on TES only), Jason Brown got 36.50 with a 4T<<, 3A< and a 3F-3T(x) at 4CC SP, but he made up for those DG/UR with his spins and steps. Kovtun's score is similar, despite fewer URs because 1.) he front loaded all this jumps and 2.) his spins and step levels + GOE held him back.

I think Maxim is talented and had moments of brilliance this season, but it's clear there are some stuff he has to work on in the off-season (like every skater out there ).

Well, these threads are usually all about Jason and/or Yuzuru, causing me to zone out (I still like Yuzuru, but it gets old real fast), so I'd rather read about Kovtun or anyone else for a change. But you're right that the posts are very repetitive indeed - especially the ones accusing anyone who criticizes any aspect of Kovtun's skating of being a "hater." I basically agree w/your assessment of him - he does try & I wonder if anything he ever does will be good enough to make him not-a-punchline for those who have already made up their minds about him. But I can't get excited about his skating either, at least not now. I keep an open mind and hope he improves & gets better programs, if only to put an end to the same tedious posts over & over again.

 

[xibsuarz]

ME!

Has anyone managed to locate a video of Max's skate, yet? Has ISU made any statement why the stream went out? I'm beginning to worry that it may not have been recorded, which...poor Karne

Sabinfire has once again saved us all :agree:

 

[Meoima]

Well, if it's just for fun, don't let the scores count for PBs and WRs then. The skaters are getting money, so I don't think they need those as extra incentives.
I don't really have issues with, say, Yuzuru's 96 since no one wuzrobbed and it set no WRs or PBs. But if he scored he broke his own WR with that, it would be a little baffling, no? Imagine someone checking his ISU profile, seeing where he got his SP PB, looking up the performance and going :scratch:.

well if you see they make fun of themselves like this behind the tech panel: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd...._=1440449526_12f3c8a51a554de27d090d005036fdff
Or like this: https://scontent-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/h...=6ff00a5e4d498797ac2bd0d90a94ab99&oe=559E548D
Or even like this: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1437420125_79063015c1dd4cce6969631766272924

You see, take it easy.

Speaking of Yuzu reactions:

Nah, this is his reaction this time: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1436637241_3673e9fce5867cb6f972aa78b2851273
Boy he is too harsh on himself. His interview after the SP is full of regret and frustration at himself.

 

[karne]

Max's SP (Apologies for the poor quality, it's the best I've come across so far... well, only thing I've come across so far. )

sabinfire is my favourite person in the whole world right now.

Where's Karne? She'd be jumping for JOY!

I was at work. Now lunchtime.

Oh, and sabinfire's video doesn't work on phone. Yeah. I tried.

From Hebrew A-ha-ran, three syllables. Translated into Greek, the double A was the closest they could come.

Oooh, it is learning day here at Goldenskate.



I had such a good feeling about classical Max. And - oh, I love it so much already! I mean, I can see the parts that need polishing, obviously (and he was actually pretty lucky not to get called for a fall out of the 4S), but... *happy sigh*

 

[MaxSwagg]

well if you see they make fun of themselves like this behind the tech panel: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd...._=1440449526_12f3c8a51a554de27d090d005036fdff
Or like this: https://scontent-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/h...=6ff00a5e4d498797ac2bd0d90a94ab99&oe=559E548D
Or even like this: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1437420125_79063015c1dd4cce6969631766272924

You see, take it easy.



Nah, this is his reaction this time: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1436637241_3673e9fce5867cb6f972aa78b2851273
Boy he is too harsh on himself. His interview after the SP is full of regret and frustration at himself.

Hopefully he can do a great free skate!

 

[ruffledgrouse]

Max's SP (Apologies for the poor quality, it's the best I've come across so far... well, only thing I've come across so far. )

You rock, as always

That was great! Well, not great great, with the mistakes and all, but way better than his previous programs. Actual transitions! Straight posture! And he was selling it! That work with Charlie paid off, like Rika working with Akiko.

 

[el henry]

Max's SP (Apologies for the poor quality, it's the best I've come across so far... well, only thing I've come across so far. )

Once again, Sabinfire,

I never would have thought it, but I *like* Max with this music. He seems to be comfortable in selling it. He wants to be an opera star; who knew?

 

[andromache]

I like this SP on Max. It's already so much better than Footloose, and the vocals give it a sense of "power" that highlights Max's style. The masculine opera singing reminds me of Denis's SP this season. At times the vocals seem too overpowering for Max though, but I think that aspect will improve over time.

Watching a few of the other men as well. The Zayak rule is great and all, but I think they should exempt Han Yan from it so I can watch a program full of his triple axels . It took me forever to get through his program because I kept rewatching the triple axel.

 

[apple123]

I agree with others about this New Max. I think he finally finds a perfect style to highlight his power without losing the finesse. I'm so happy for him.

 

[ice coverage]

sabinfire - you officially win the internet for the day!

Thank you so much.

Well said, Stitch. Thx again to sabinfire.

From Hebrew A-ha-ran, three syllables. Translated into Greek, the double A was the closest they could come.

Thank you, MM . Never knew that. Is A-ha-ran a Hebrew word -- which means something in English?

You rock, as always

That was great! Well, not great great, with the mistakes and all, but way better than his previous programs. Actual transitions! Straight posture! And he was selling it! That work with Charlie paid off, like Rika working with Akiko.

:agree: Max's SP was great. Loved the choreo. Phillips Mills and Max are a good combo.

More excited than ever to see their collaboration on Black Swan :yay:.

And aside from the chance to debut two new programs, I'm glad that Max gets to enjoy the whole WTT experience again.
Great to see him smiling and having fun in the Kiss and Cry.

Stupid question:

Who is Charlie? Charlie White? Was/is Max working with Charlie White???​

 

[ruffledgrouse]

Stupid question:

Who is Charlie? Charlie White? Was/is Max working with Charlie White???​

Not a stupid question. I thought I saw someone say earlier that he was getting second mark tutoring from Charlie White during their time together at one of the ice show, but now that I think about it they may have been talking about Kovtun.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Volk reported it in a post on Maxim's fan thread a few months back.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?51177-Maxim-Kovtun&p=963064&viewfull=1#post963064

I tried to open the link to the story and translate it but my phone won't open the link that was posted. Maybe it's gone.

It said while in Japan Charlie and Maxim worked together on his stroking. Maybe during Ice Shows?

 

[deetrakt]

From Hebrew A-ha-ran, three syllables. Translated into Greek, the double A was the closest they could come.

The Hebrew name is traditionally rendered in English as AHARON. Aaron (Aharon) was the older brother of Moses and according to the Bible was chosen by God as High Priest of the Israelites. The Kohanim or priestly caste in the Temple descended from Aaron. To this day, many of those named Cohen, Cohn, etc., are believed to be descendants of Aaron and these priests.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

I am not a big Max fan, but wow o wow do I agree w everyone that this short is a HUGE step forward for him! His posture and line look MUCH improved, and despite using music that Boitano and Meno/Sand did legendary programs too, he is making the music his own. I am really impressed!

 

[alia jackson]

Is Max wearing tights ?

 

[Art&Sport]

I agree Max's lines look much improved, and he is also taking his time to feel the music more. He needs to fix the fall-outs though on his money jumps (quad revolutions). Clearly working with choreographer Philip Mills is helping aesthetically, and maybe Max's sis Maddie is also giving him some tips on improving his line and posture. I'm looking forward to seeing Max's fp. This is a good head start for Max leading off to next season. He has all summer to continue further perfecting his programs and his overall skating and performance qualities.

Happy I found a Youtube link of Max's sp, as friggin' IceNetwork lost the feed and made no effort to apologize for the interference/ signal problem and upload a copy of Max's program (I don't care if the problem was not caused on their end -- they are providing a paid service). IN needs to recognize that and do a better job!

Oh yeah, and still waiting for Hanyu to skate two clean performances in one event. With that overly high score in the sp and Hanyu at less than his best, the rest of the field apparently has to call it a day. The same as with Chan, over-scoring for quad revolutions doesn't help the skater or the sport. Yes, Hanyu has superb talent, but he needs to put it together with clean performances. His moments here and there of brilliant jumping and smooth flow over the ice should not camouflage the fact that he's not really the best fully developed stylist with top notch presentation skills. He's still learning in that respect.

 

[Sandpiper]

Max's SP (Apologies for the poor quality, it's the best I've come across so far... well, only thing I've come across so far. )

Thank you.

I'm actually surprised to see Nessun Dorma sorta work for him. It highlights his speed and power, and he appears to have improved in terms of line and posture. The program just needs a little more polish, and no silly errors like the 4S step-out, spin levels, StSq stumble, ect. I'd also like to see him skate a little further from the boards, so he can project more (and the audience can probably appreciate his speed better.)

I expected something worse after seeing the score, but it was actually a solid skate.

 

[HanDomi]

Thank you.

I'm actually surprised to see Nessun Dorma sorta work for him. It highlights his speed and power, and he appears to have improved in terms of line and posture. The program just needs a little more polish, and no silly errors like the 4S step-out, spin levels, StSq stumble, ect. I'd also like to see him skate a little further from the boards, so he can project more (and the audience can probably appreciate his speed better.)

I expected something worse after seeing the score, but it was actually a solid skate.

He needs to change costume at first. This one shows too much athelticism visually and not fill the music. Needs more flow and speed trough choreo and steps. We will see next season

 

[karne]

Is Max wearing tights ?

They could possibly be classified as such, yes. I am waiting for him to end up with a costume violation for them one day. I'm sure it will happen.

Happy I found a Youtube link of Max's sp, as friggin' IceNetwork lost the feed and made no effort to apologize for the interference/ signal problem and upload a copy of Max's program (I don't care if the problem was not caused on their end -- they are providing a paid service). IN needs to recognize that and do a better job!

IN really had no control over it. The World Feed went down - no-one saw it live. It was the ISU's fault. And the ISU channel doesn't even have Max's program uploaded, so I doubt IN has access to a copy.

 

[karne]

The program just needs a little more polish, and no silly errors like the 4S step-out, spin levels, StSq stumble, ect. I'd also like to see him skate a little further from the boards, so he can project more (and the audience can probably appreciate his speed better.)

Well, it is very new. His ISU PB is actually 78 I think, so that he got so close to PB even with those problems is very promising that the judges might like it.

The issue with the FSSp concerns me a little. He got the V1 because he didn't get down fast enough after the fly. I've noticed before that it takes him a while to get down in his sits.

He needs to change costume at first. This one shows too much athelticism visually and not fill the music. Needs more flow and speed trough choreo and steps. We will see next season

Well, the program is new, so I guess he didn't have any time to get a new costume or think about how it should look. The costume he was wearing he has used as a back up before.