2016 Finlandia Trophy Mens SP

[mrrice]

If you're not ready to hear a Patrick defense, please skip this comment. Kovtun may have been the best jumper today but, that is where the buck stops!!!! This was definitely an early season performance by Patrick and that's the only reason he's in 3rd. His skating skills and artistry in the first seconds alone are better than every Man in the event. His posture and carriage are straight out of a text book. His edges are so deep and he generates speed with smooth, effortless and easy strokes. I liked Kovtun's jumps today but, without them, he doesn't take me anywhere. What Kovtun does have is height in his Jumps and that's why he is deservedly in the lead. Nathan Chan just lit a fire under every Male skater in the US. I still don't see him beating Max, Adam, or the reinvigorated Jeremy Abbott, Yet!! But, he is the future of Men's skating in the US.

I am very excited for the LP and I do predict that the event is still in Patrick's hands. If he skates well, he wins on the PCS mark alone. If not, may the best skater win. Is Kovtun the Russian Champion? I can't believe I don't know the answer.

 

[Meoima]

If you're not ready to hear a Patrick defense, please skip this comment. Kovtun may have been the best jumper today but, that is where the buck stops!!!! This was definitely an early season performance by Patrick and that's only reason he's in 3rd. His skating skills and artistry in the first seconds alone are better than every Man in the event. His posture and carriage are straight out of a text book. His edges are so deep and he generates speed with smooth, effortless and easy strokes. I liked Kovtun's jumps today but, without them, he doesn't take me anywhere. What Kovtun does have is height in his Jumps and that's why he is deservedly in the lead. Nathan Chan just lit a fire under every Male skater in US. I still don't see him beating Max, Adam, or the reinvigorated Jeremy Abbott, Yet!! But, he is the future of Men's skating in the US.

I am very excited for the LP and I do predict that the event is still in Patrick's hands. If he skates well, he wins on the PCS mark alone. If not,

Well of course Patrick is still the best skater in this event who happened to have an off day which is fine because it's early season.
Nathan might beat other US men if USFA has decided to back him up like they have been backing Gracie and Ashley In my opinion.
Kovtun isn't there, however it doesn't take away the smile I have while watching Kovtun's SP because it was genuinely entertaining lol.

 

[HanDomi]

BTW Maxim had always received >40 points on the PCS last season in the SP, so in a way he was underscored as well.

If anything he was overscored last season not underscored here

 

[Marin]

The jumps were horrible but skating skills in fairness are the best in the world even in this program. Look at Hanyu - whose SP I just don't get and i find it a huge step backwards he got 88 and change without the ss of Chan though I agree technically Hanyu is far better - though last week Mr. H had issues with spins too. Its early folks and the scoring at this event has been more than suspect and not so much on the generous side. Osmond seemed undermark in both programs and in the pairs -mind you it has been a splatfest- in part because it is early but I am now seeing a trend - perhaps technically things are proceeding too fast. This does add excitement because now it is a toss up who will win moreso. And with "us" on this site you will see us jumping ship fast with each skate lol. It is going to be a roller coaster folks. Sometimes for every step forward you might take two backwards. So while it is awesome to see the quad emphasis - it seems to be at a cost and I wonder if it effects the body ie. Hanyu, Chen, Ten..

and honestly I don't think Yuzuru is back in SS comparing to Patrick, Patrick is better at edge work, Yuzuru is better at maintaining and varying speed, Hanyu considered as a jumper it is the old convo stuck back in 2012-2013... I guess....SS is not only edge so that's it.

 

[mcq]

SS for Patrick is 8.63, Kovtun and Kolyada both 7.88 and Nathan 7.58. PCS for Patrick is 42.92 and the other three from37.75 to 38.59.

I find the PCS for Patrick low for what what he did on ice. However, at this event, individual PCS in the 8s are given only to the winners of Ladies and Pairs, to the top 2 in Ice Dance, and in Mens SP, only to Patrick who's in third place.

At US IFSC, both Rippon and Brown received 8's in both SP and LP. No Men scored in the 8's in Nebelhom, and, in Canada Autumn Classic Hanyu was given mostly 9's (45.35 PCS) in the SP except for the (in)famous J1, and 87.67 PCS in the LP.

I therefore find with his performance and in comparison to Brown, Rippon, and Hanyu, Patrick seems to be underscored in PCS here. Not sure yet if it is event specific low scoring for all. FWIW, this is the first time I voiced a different personal opinion on Patrick's scores. Just prompted to do fact checking and curious enough to do a comparison to see if there is an overall low scoring for all due to early season subpar performances.

Score seems relatively low in this event. Just checking, but the last time Patrick had a 42-43 PCS was in 2012 (during GPs) after that he always scores >44 up to 47ish regardless of whether he is clean or not. --> http://skatedb.net/modules/skateDB/index.php?page=player&playerid=45
P.S : Btw, just a minor correction, Hanyu's PCS for AC in the LP is 86.60 not 87.67.

 

[Spinning]

Why? he was great here: the coach change is paying off: i can see tons of improvements on the spins and the posture, while the jumps are still unreliable.

Actually, I am #teamkovtun all the way. My laughing is more toward his haters in general. Seriously, the anti-Maxim knee jerk reactions online are phenomenon.

People predicted his doom and gloom future all summer long.
So...yes...I said it again...Cool!

Nice work kid.

I know he has a habit to bomb his FS but at least he did enough in the SP to shut people up.

 

[Biellmann]

yes, this is my concern with Nathan, he seems to be injury prone and almost always gets injured every season. But he is the most technical and well rounded US male skater capable of being in top 3 podium against Yuzuru, Shoma, Javi, Chan etc.

Only jumps won't bring him the podium. And not even his jumps are consistent :noshake:
People fantasize too much
I know you're desperate, but :noshake:

 

[mrrice]

Only jumps won't bring him the podium. And not even his jumps are consistent :noshake:
People fantasize too much
I know you're desperate, but :noshake:

I'm not desperate but, I do think you're right about Nathan in terms of this year alone.

 

[Jaana]

At US IFSC, both Rippon and Brown received 8's in both SP and LP. No Men scored in the 8's in Nebelhom, and, in Canada Autumn Classic Hanyu was given mostly 9's (45.35 PCS) in the SP except for the (in)famous J1, and 87.67 PCS in the LP.

I therefore find with his performance and in comparison to Brown, Rippon, and Hanyu, Patrick seems to be underscored in PCS here. Not sure yet if it is event specific low scoring for all. FWIW, this is the first time I voiced a different personal opinion on Patrick's scores. Just prompted to do fact checking and curious enough to do a comparison to see if there is an overall low scoring for all due to early season subpar performances.

Or maybe Brown and Rippon were actually overscored at US IFSC?

 

[Biellmann]

I wouldn't exactly say Mr. Hanyu's white costume is a winner either though. Black maybe boring but some people didn't think Hanyu's costume really helped his program and moreover, white pants - yikes. It is hard to pull off. It really shows everything and not necessarily in a good way not to mention are you trying to match the ice and sink into it or show off your skating. Save it for the wedding ? So much white too. I guess it is all black and white this year lol - too bad the skating isn't that way. It is a roller coaster I have to admit I thought I might be excited about all these quads but not really the skating is suffering. Pairs and men's could be a roll the dice splat fest.

He looks great in white, people just need to change their paradigm. I can see everything he is doing on the ice, the same as the people in the arena. You don't like it? Your problem :confused2:

 

[Mrs. P]

Or maybe Brown and Rippon were actually overscored at US IFSC?

Not the short program, but Jason's FS PCS was higher at Lombardia than at the US senior B. Maybe that visit to Italy this summer was a political ploy to boost his PCS scores.

To keep it on topic, Nathan's SP was very nice and I can see the benefit of the extra work with Marina. And I am sort of becoming a closet Maxim supporter because he just tries so hard! (Now wouldn't YOU Pick up Maxim while he hitchhikes along the roads of the Caribbean? Yes? YES).

 

[MaxSwagg]

I agree. Patrick was in a different league. He flowed on ice and every movement is with purpose and with the music. The others showed good skating while Patrick was sublime and was an artist. But details and nuances don't add up to much in the scoring.



The scores are not as ridiculous as MaxSwagg erroneously reported. Check my previous post for the correct scores and some comparisons.

Excuse you, but nothing was "erroneous". I reported a specific judge's score, which is ridiculous...

 

[mrrice]

Or maybe Brown and Rippon were actually overscored at US IFSC?

Well, Jason didn't skate at Nationals last year so, it's difficult to know where he stands right now. I have seen Jason skate live many times over the last 5 years and I can tell you that even with only 1 quad, Jason would knock Nathan right off the podium. It's hard to explain if you don't see him live but, Jason has the "It" factor. He's kind of like Emanuel Sandhu but with discipline. I loved Eman.....

 

[Violet Bliss]

Excuse you, but nothing was "erroneous". I reported a specific judge's score, which is ridiculous...

Thanks for pointing it now. But you didn't in your original post, which aroused several responses in incredulousness. It, however, prompted me to do the verification and some comparisons.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Well, Jason didn't skate at Nationals last year so, it's difficult to know where he stands right now. I have seen Jason skate live many times over the last 5 years and I can tell you that even with only 1 quad, Jason would knock Nathan right off the podium. It's hard to explain if you don't see him live but, Jason has the "It" factor. He's kind of like Emanuel Sandhu but with discipline. I loved Eman.....

Jason is very good but I wouldn't say he has the "it" factor. Nathan has more potential, as does Vincent Zhou, and the cultivation of their talent needs to take precedence (certainly over Rippon).

 

[Biellmann]

The drama continuous tomorrow. Save your energy folks

 

[mrrice]

Jason is very good but I wouldn't say he has the "it" factor. Nathan has more potential, as does Vincent Zhou, and the cultivation of their talent needs to take precedence (certainly over Rippon).

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. There's a reason that Jason always gets standing ovations. Even when he would to lose to Joshua, which happened EVERY time they went against each other as Juniors. Jason was the crowd favorite, even without a Triple Axel which he didn't have as Junior. Can you imagine ANY skater making the Junior Podium with a Triple Axel? I don't think that will ever happen again.

 

[Tolstoj]

Actually, I am #teamkovtun all the way. My laughing is more toward his haters in general. Seriously, the anti-Maxim knee jerk reactions online are phenomenon.

People predicted his doom and gloom future all summer long.
So...yes...I said it again...Cool!

Nice work kid.

I know he has a habit to bomb his FS but at least he did enough in the SP to shut people up.

Okay, i thought you were sarcastic on Kovtun because in this forum there aren't so many fans of him unfortunately.

Shout out to Inna, she deserves much respect at CSKA, Maxim was great also two weeks ago at the Russian Cup (clean SP and almost clean FS)

 

[SarahSynchro]

I'm so disappointed that I missed this entire event this morning. It was because I actually had to leave my house today, haha.

 

[demarinis5]

I watched the top three men. Very impressed with Nathan. Max looks like he has his mojo back, good for him. Patrick's program will have to grow on me I was a little
distracted with the tweeting birds but it was a good first SP. I do worry about Patrick technically i.e. jumps. Like Patrick said himself in recent interviews it is a different
game now. That said he was imo the class of the field today.

Looking forward to his FS! GO Patrick!